Hypothetical: I want to own/ride a motorbike/moped

DonDaddyD

OK so hypothetically speaking I want to own and ride a moped/motorcycle to and from work.

What would I need:

Bike: If I only ride through London what motorcycle or moped should I consider. What would be considered as high mileage? Could I use a moped on the North circular (A406)?

If I went around the M25 to work (ala car journey) what type of motorcycle would I need?

Insurance: I already have car insurance, would I need an additional one for the bike? Could I add it onto my car insurance?

Licence & tax: Do you have to tax (VED) a moped/motorcycle? Would I need to get another licence considering I already have a full UK drivers licence for the car?

How much: How much would/should I be looking to spend on a moped or motorcycle that would primarily be used for commuting and as a pure luxury?

Pufftmw

I hate mopeds and any bike under 600cc, otherwise its down to you. Couriers tend to use relaxed unfaired touring type bikes and they do them well. M25, then consider getting a faired touring style at least 750cc

Insurance - Of course you need it and no, its separate

Licence/Tax - Licence you need to take a variety of tests before you can even go on the road as a learner, then tests to take off the L plates. Do a Direct Access course. VED is like any other vehicle.

?£ - Up to you, what money do you have to spend? And what you want to spend it on (style/type/cc etc)?

However, do spend as much as you can afford on protective clothing - helmet, body armour, boots, leathers, gloves etc as it hurts more when you hit the ground with 500lb of m/bike than 15lb of pushbike and you will likely be going faster...

veronese68

I think you should get a 125. I wouldn't want to ride the Norh Circ on a moped. For the M25 you will have to pass a motorcycle test and have a full licence. I would want a 250cc as an absolute minimum. Unless you do direct access you are limited to 33bhp for 2 years. 33bhp is plenty to be getting on with.
Yes, you will need seperate insurance. I don't think you can add it to a car policy.
You may be able to ride a 125 on L plates without a new licence. Depends when you passed your test. You will probably have to do a CBT. Tax for a motorbike is cheap as chips.
Very hard to get a reasonable MOT'd bike for less than a grand.
A friend of mine is a qualified instructor working out of Croydon at the moment. He's trying to sort his own place near Malden by the A3 at the moment. Let me know if interested and I'll send you details.

Maxticate

You would need to tax and insure the bike separately. I don't think any insurance company does bike and car combined insurance any more. If you are parking it in London I would expect the insurance to be high and if it is worth anything or even if it isn't expect it to get nicked.

You would need to take the test for a bike license. You can ride a moped on a car license if you passed before 2001. Details here http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/LearnerAndNewDrivers/RidingMotorcyclesAndMopeds/DG_10016249

t4tomo

You've just had / having a kid haven't / aren't you? why would you want to kill yourself on a moped / motor bike?

veronese68

Puff has a point. Once you've ridden a big bike it's very hard to go back. He is also dead right about protective gear.

veronese68

t4tomo wrote:

You've just had / having a kid haven't / aren't you? why would you want to kill yourself on a moped / motor bike?

Same reason he wants to kill himself riding a bicycle?

W1

Don't forget the cost of life insurance.

Maxticate

I used to commute round the M25 all the time on the Surrey stretch.

I had one of these



Then one of these

Then progressed to one of these

The first bike was £700 and would be plenty good enough for daily commuting.

Pufftmw

Veronese68 wrote:

Puff has a point. Once you've ridden a big bike it's very hard to go back. He is also dead right about protective gear.

The thing about a big bike and certainly for commuting motorways, is that it is more relaxing doing 70mph @ 5000 rpm than doing 70mph @ 9000 rpm

veronese68

Pufftmw wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

Puff has a point. Once you've ridden a big bike it's very hard to go back. He is also dead right about protective gear.

The thing about a big bike and certainly for commuting motorways, is that it is more relaxing doing 70mph @ 5000 rpm than doing 70mph @ 9000 rpm

True, but if you know no better...
I had a GPZ500 for a while, vibrated more than my 60's Bonneville. Brakes were rather better though. I also like to have the power in reserve to get away from something if I had to. My last bike was a Triumph Daytona 1200, 150 horses was lovely on a motorway. I sold it because it was completely ridiculous for the sort of bimbling about that most of my riding has become. Now I cycle, or take the car if I have to. Restoring another old Triumph though.

colin moore

If only riding in London a 125cc bike/scooter would be fine, a 50cc moped is only really any good for a few miles and as are limited to 30mph not suitable for faster roads. If you were to go round the M25 you could get away with a 250, but personally i would go for a 500/600cc with upright bars and a small fairing/screen of some sort. Average mileage these days is considered to be about 3000, although most commuters exceed this.
Insurance, another policy i'm afraid.
Tax, currently £15 for up to 150cc up to £74 for over 600cc.
Licence, for a 125cc you will need to take a CBT course which is then valid for 2 years, for anything bigger you will have to take the full test either direct access (pass ride anything) or 125 test followed by 2 years with a power limit of 33bhp.
Prices of 125's s/h £1500 should get you something half decent with a bit of warranty or new start from £2500 for anything worth having. The bigger bike if you were to commute, buy new £5000/6000, if self employed claim the vat back, replace after 2yrs/20000 miles, hopefully still worth 3k and spend another 3k on the next bike and so on.

EKE_38BPM

DDD is only a young'un, so he'd need to do a CBT to ride anything. When I passed my driving test (just over 20 years ago) I was also licenced to ride a 50, but that will have gone by the time DDD passed his test.

I'm in a similar sort of position. I used to ride a 50 many moons ago, but about 9 months ago I did my CBT (I gave my niece a CBT as her 17th birthday present and decided I should do it as well) and I've been thinking about getting my full licence. If I get the job I'm going for, the commute may be a bit much, so the idea of a motorbike is appealing.

From my 50 riding days, I will say that good protective gear is a MUST. Always wear gloves, boots, heavy jacket & trousers and a good helmet (yes, I came off). When I see people riding in t-shirts and shorts, trainers and no gloves, I cringe inside.
For the financial side of things, listen to what the bikers say, they know more than me.
125 will be OK for around town, but even with my limited experience I know that it would be too weedy to ride on a motorway (even if you are legally allowed to).

DonDaddyD

I don't really want a lean forward into the speed dial superbike. I was considering a scooter/moped (seriously what's the difference?) just for London commuting.

But end up looking at this type of thing:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/search/used ... t/priceasc

Or

Something like:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/ ... ?logcode=p

colin moore

A scooter is a style of bike generally legsheilds small wheels, while a moped is any style of bike below 50cc restricted to 30 mph.
1st link above are custom 125's a bugger to clean more suitable for occasional use, 2nd choice YBR125 is a proper commuter bike, good on fuel, cheap bits and reliable in and around town should be all you need, if you fancy a new one let me know!

nation

I was looking into this myself.

One thing I noticed (because I was looking at doing it on the cheap) is that 125s don't seem to be any cheaper to buy than "big bikes". I'm guessing that this is because you can buy a brand new Chinese 125 for around £1000-£1500, and most sensible people will take something from a reputable manufacturer over a Haotian or a Jinlun, and are willing to pay for them, apparently regardless of age as long as they're MOTed and run.

I've actually been thinking that if I'm going to do it I might as well do the full licence (Direct Access Scheme) instead of doing the CBT + 125 on L-plates thing.

veronese68

You don't want a cruiser type thing like in the first link. The YBR in the second is more like it. A moped is up to 50cc and in it's original meaning had pedals. A scooter is a step through thing with small wheels, usually automatic s ojust twist and go. The bike you had in the second link is neither. It's a small motorbike. Bigger wheels are more stable and it will handle better. It has a clutch and gears so good to learn on if you ever want to move on to a bigger bike. Which for the M25 you will have to.
I would recommend you start on something like your second link, move on to something like in Maxticate's second picture. A reasonably upright, funky looking 600.

veronese68

Don't buy a Chinese 125. Buy a Japanese one, older if necessary. Much better quality and more reliable. Take a look at the mopedradar thread. Lots of advice on there.

mudcow007

I just bought my self a Honda CG125 - u can ride it on a CBT,
been quoted £76 12 months insurance
£15 Tax

100 miles + mpg

an its retro cool - 1984 vintage

greg66_tri_v2.0

Mopeds: awful things. I believe a one way road to Beachy Head is all they and their riders are fit for.

When we moved to the country (N1 to SW18) I thought about getting a Honda VFR800 (I have, BTW< never ridden a motor bike, but I was pretty confident I would be awesome). In the first month of cycling I saw the aftermath of three big bike big accidents on the Embankment. Sand and sawdust on the road, ambulances, the lot.

Felt that someone was trying to tell me something. Never did get that bike.

greg66_tri_v2.0

DonDaddyD wrote:

I don't really want a lean forward into the speed dial superbike.

I always thought of them more as drape-yourself-over-the-petrol-tank-and-hold-on.

Seriously, dude, you have a child now. Have you even raised this with Mrs DDD?

gtvlusso

@DDD - your a new Dad, buying a 'big' bike is probably gonna be on better half DDD's 'no no' list and junior's 'I want to see my daddy walking list'

Sorry to be the prophet of doom......

Big bikes in 'new' hands a f*cking dangerous!

Bike: Through London or any city a 50cc moped is fine unless you are a big person or ride on a road where the speed limit is high. In which case get an 80 or a 125 moped.

If I went around the M25 to work (ala car journey) what type of motorcycle would I need?

350cc + IMHO - you need to be able to at least do 70, comfortably, and have some degree of extra power on tap (as well as biggish brakes)

Insurance: I already have car insurance, would I need an additional one for the bike? Could I add it onto my car insurance?

No - you need seperate insurance and good off road and locked storage unless you want to pay uber insurance.

Licence & tax: Do you have to tax (VED) a moped/motorcycle? Would I need to get another licence considering I already have a full UK drivers licence for the car?

You can ride a low HP moped on your full UK driving licence for 3 years I believe, but you have to complete CBT training and I am not sure if you would have to wear L plates. However, the sensible option is to do a full licence and test as you will get some really good training and quite a few on bike hours as well as the opportunity to progress to a 33BHP+ bike - there are a couple of options here. Bike tax is cheap - you need all the documentation you need for a car

How much: How much would/should I be looking to spend on a moped or motorcycle that would primarily be used for commuting and as a pure luxury?

£800 will get you something nice - however, you will need protective clothing and a lid (buy the best you can afford in terms of kit) - think hard about this as motorbiking and mopedding can get expensive with the right gear. With the wrong gear you open yourself up to injury - nasty injury.

I quit with the big bikes as there is simply too much temptation to wring a big bikes neck and there are too many idiots that simply do not see or account for bikes - I have a kid i'd like to come home to.

Cannot stress that getting the right protective clothing will save you <-- don't want to see anyone get hurt!

veronese68

People flame others for suggesting cycling is dangerous. Then say motorbikes are dangerous. Yes, everything has it's risks, you have to mitigate those risks. Being aware of the risk and riding accordingly is the best way to protect yourself. Being a competent cyclist will help a lot with this.
My wife worries more about me when I'm cycling than when I'm on a motorbike. I think this is a bit strange as they both have risks. But I have been riding motorbikes for the whole time she's known me. Whilst I used to cycle as a kid, I didn't do much cycling when we got together. I can't explain the rationale of a woman.

SimonAH

Here's my wee beastie in it's last incarnation;



I've just sawn 4" out of the rear and smoothed out the seat hump for a more 'one rider, pillions better really want to be going where I'm going' effect.

I've also snugged in the rear light. In the process of building a new set of zorsts that will tuck in much tighter and be far shorter than the slash pipes in the photo (tricky when trying to keep a tuned length of pipe).

Oh, wait, this wasn't a 'show off your motorcycle' thread was it? :oops:

Seriously though. My recommendation for what it's worth is (once legal) find something in the 500 to 750 sort of bracket that is 'of an age'. Bigger bike means better brakes, better tyre contact and the power to get you out of trouble. 'Of an age' means that whilst you can leave any car (within reason) for dead if you need to, it's a) a lot cheaper* and b) not so stupidly powerful that you'll be dead the first time it rains. Plus it's a lot cooler

Go for it! And have fun.

*also classic insurance is usually just about free.

rick_chasey

Greg66 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

I don't really want a lean forward into the speed dial superbike.

I always thought of them more as drape-yourself-over-the-petrol-tank-and-hold-on.

Seriously, dude, you have a child now. Have you even raised this with Mrs DDD?

I thought life was about risk taking?

gtvlusso

Rick Chasey wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

I don't really want a lean forward into the speed dial superbike.

I always thought of them more as drape-yourself-over-the-petrol-tank-and-hold-on.

Seriously, dude, you have a child now. Have you even raised this with Mrs DDD?

I thought life was about risk taking?

And you should take these risks when you have no dependants.....

Hurts when you fall off a bike, believe me....GSXR1000, wet road and a tree, tree won an I broke my leg in 3 places. Doing that now, with kids would knacker the family for a couple of months!

Moped; fine. Big bike; be careful.

DonDaddyD

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I think I'll leave this to develop into a what is more dangerous motorcycles/mopeds/scooters or cycling debate.

Greg and GTVLusso, (i) I haven't yet asked Ms DDD (ii) safety is a big issue and I wouldn't feel comfortable going along the M25, so wouldn't be doing that. I'd keep it to the 20miles across London which doesn't involve the 40+mph stretch of the North Circular. (iii) I am weighing up the cost of gear as well as the cost of buying and running the bike and passing the test.

On the big bike subject it'd only be a 125cc. And the Ms DDD may still say "no".

veronese68

If we're showing off bikes. This is the last bike I rebuilt:
Plenty fast enough to keep up with modern traffic even though it's as old as me. Scared a few sports bikes riding around them on corners.
I missed it so much when I sold the Ducati I bought another one that needs rebuilding. I think they might pay me to insure it now classic insurance is so cheap. And free tax as it's so old.

notsoblue

Veronese68 wrote:

People flame others for suggesting cycling is dangerous. Then say motorbikes are dangerous. Yes, everything has it's risks, you have to mitigate those risks. Being aware of the risk and riding accordingly is the best way to protect yourself. Being a competent cyclist will help a lot with this.
My wife worries more about me when I'm cycling than when I'm on a motorbike. I think this is a bit strange as they both have risks. But I have been riding motorbikes for the whole time she's known me. Whilst I used to cycle as a kid, I didn't do much cycling when we got together. I can't explain the rationale of a woman.

Well my speed on the bike is limited by my fitness. The performance you get on a motorbike is pretty insane for the price. Given the (measured, calculated, considered) risks I take on a bicycle, I reckon with the effectively unrestricted speed of a motorbike, I'd get myself killed :P

greg66_tri_v2.0

DonDaddyD wrote:

(i) I haven't yet asked Ms DDD

/end thread

/end pipe dream

/end notion of being Boss of household.

nich

You should do it, if only for the fun factor

The problem though is very similar to that of cycling. It's hard to just have just 1 bike

A scooter / moped is brilliant for around town, and perfect for London - more so than a big bike (imo) because you can often filter into gaps that they can't.

Out of town (duel carridgeways/motorways), a 125 scooter is scary. Mine maxes out at 60MPH which leaves me very vulnerable to cars right up my backside. The wheels are generally smaller too, which doesn't inspire much confidence when you're full throttle.

The solution is to have 2 bikes, a small scooter for around town, then a big bike for the open road

If you are interested, I believe there's various free intro's into motorbikes/scooters, which are basically a cut down version of the CBT.

In a couple of weeks time I'll be doing my Direct Access course, and most likely get a Kawasaki ER6 or Honda CB500 if I pass. People seem to suggest they are good 1st bikes. There's a world of difference between a 125 and a 500 though, at least for a newbie like me.

Whatever happens, I'll probably keep my scooter, it's an absolute joy to ride.