OT: Football Premiership Title Race

spen666

So, realistically, there are 5 teams chasing 4 places in next season's Champions League

Man U
Man City
Arsenal
Chelsea
Tottenham

What I want to know is who would you LIKE to miss out (not who you believe will miss out) AND why?

Let your prejudices out - no need for them to be rational

MonkeyMonster

spurs because i follow arsenal that they are the most likely to not qualify anyway is a bonus

jzed

Remove Arsenal and you have the top 4, with Arsenal, Liverpool and Newcastle fighting for the Europa league slot.

Unfortunately with the shite that is Downing, henderson, Adam and Carroll, Stoke have more chance of 5th than Liverpool.

suzyb

Man U because teams that always win stuff annoy me.

DonDaddyD

I need Arsenal to finish 5th. Why?

Finishing 4th or within the top four will just gloss over the obvious failings of the team as it has done in previous years and won't bring forth the massive overhaul we need to be successful.

Finishing 5th would:

Force the regime (Arsene, the Board and the ridiculous transfer policy) to question their principles and policy.

Give the players a wake up call that simply playing for Arsenal doesn't make them as good as Henry, Viera, Pires et al. It would also remove the "potential, kids, developing" label/excuse and might actually get the players to play to the level and ability the manager believes they might have.

Likely force all those who are just there for money or want better contracts to leave.

Lastly Europa football would be good for the team, we'd likely win that (our players are good enough for that competition) and winning something/anything would give the remianing crop of players the drive and sense of success they are so clearly lacking.

In Arsene I trust but a little failure can be motivational in the long run.

Ben6899

Chelsea. Because the whole establishment lacks any class whatsoever - built with money from questionable sources and defending a racist staff member to the hilt.

shm_uk

Just a minute!

It's a race?

I thought they all just followed a schedule and the winner's whoever ends with most points?

More like a trialquest type of thing really.

Ben6899

DonDaddyD wrote:

I need Arsenal to finish 5th. Why?

Finishing 4th or within the top four will just gloss over the obvious failings of the team as it has done in previous years and won't bring forth the massive overhaul we need to be successful.

Finishing 5th would:

Force the regime (Arsene, the Board and the ridiculous transfer policy) to question their principles and policy.

Give the players a wake up call that simply playing for Arsenal doesn't make them as good as Henry, Viera, Pires et al. It would also remove the "potential, kids, developing" label/excuse and might actually get the players to play to the level and ability the manager believes they might have.

Likely force all those who are just there for money or want better contracts to leave.

Lastly Europa football would be good for the team, we'd likely win that (our players are good enough for that competition) and winning something/anything would give the remianing crop of players the drive and sense of success they are so clearly lacking.

In Arsene I trust but a little failure can be motivational in the long run.

DDD, this is a refreshingly accurate and realistic assessment of Arsenal from a supporter of Arsenal. Nice one. When will Wenger concede that established centre-halves are crucial to Premiership success?

spen666

suzyb wrote:

Man U because teams that always win stuff annoy me.

I understand the feeling and sympathise, but isn't this the British attitude that detests success rather than encourages it?

spen666

JZed wrote:

Remove Arsenal and you have the top 4, with Arsenal, Liverpool and Newcastle fighting for the Europa league slot.

forget Newcastle, we are still looking to avoid relegation. We will do well to finish in top 10

Gussio

JZed wrote:

Unfortunately with the shite that is Downing, henderson, Adam and Carroll, Stoke have more chance of 5th than Liverpool.

I wish, but it just isn't going to happen if we lose at home to the likes of West Brom :roll:

suzyb

spen666 wrote:

suzyb wrote:

Man U because teams that always win stuff annoy me.

I understand the feeling and sympathise, but isn't this the British attitude that detests success rather than encourages it?

Yeah probably.

Actually I think my attitude is probably based on nothing whatsoever. IIRC the premiership has never been like the Scottish league where one club has won it for so many years in a row. But for some reason I hate MU for their success yet don't mind other teams who are or have been just as successful.

il_principe

Ben6899 wrote:

Chelsea. Because the whole establishment lacks any class whatsoever - built with money from questionable sources and defending a racist staff member to the hilt.

Yawn. What happened to innocent before guilty? I'd be v surprised if Terry (for all his many, many faults) is a racist. He seems well thought of by team mates such as Drogba, Cole etc and has played with black players for years. If he is, then he's hid it very well for along time.

As for the questionable sources - no worse than City or Utd. The Glazers are a bunch of crooks.

I'd like Arsenal or City to miss out, because I hate them both.

I suspect Spurs will wobble and bottle it though.

Clever Pun

JZed wrote:

Remove Arsenal and you have the top 4, with Arsenal, Liverpool and Newcastle fighting for the Europa league slot.

Unfortunately with the shite that is Downing, henderson, Adam and Carroll, Stoke have more chance of 5th than Liverpool.

Missed a real opportunity this weekend, really annoyed about that. Least we didn't lose ground.

Yeah I see Chelsea getting 4th although Newcastle Liverpool and Arsenal are all still in the mix as there's a lot of head to head games to be played yet

Ben6899

Il Principe wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Chelsea. Because the whole establishment lacks any class whatsoever - built with money from questionable sources and defending a racist staff member to the hilt.

Yawn. What happened to innocent before guilty? I'd be v surprised if Terry (for all his many, many faults) is a racist. He seems well thought of by team mates such as Drogba, Cole etc and has played with black players for years. If he is, then he's hid it very well for along time.

As for the questionable sources - no worse than City or Utd. The Glazers are a bunch of crooks.

I'd like Arsenal or City to miss out, because I hate them both.

I suspect Spurs will wobble and bottle it though.

Please don't *yawn* me mate; it's very rude.

I see what you're saying about John Terry, but there is never any smoke without fire. In addition to this latest "scandal" I remember - a few years ago now, when Chelsea were all-powerful - him saying something to Ledley King in a London derby.

And anyone who cites Jodie Morris as a close friend has to be questionable!

I'm not sure the Glazers or City's benefactors fall into the same category as Abramovich.

Gazzaputt

As long as Manure win f*ck all I'll be happy.

Like to Spurs or City wipe the smug smile off the scots red nose gobshite.

King Kenny has some work to do though.

Clever Pun

Il Principe wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Chelsea. Because the whole establishment lacks any class whatsoever - built with money from questionable sources and defending a racist staff member to the hilt.

Yawn. What happened to innocent before guilty? I'd be v surprised if Terry (for all his many, many faults) is a racist. He seems well thought of by team mates such as Drogba, Cole etc and has played with black players for years. If he is, then he's hid it very well for along time.

Suarez was hung out to dry well before the verdict. Terry has pretty much been left alone (this maybe cause of the criminal investigation rather than fa kangaroo court)

Ben6899

Gazzaputt wrote:

As long as Manure win f*ck all I'll be happy.

Like to Spurs or City wipe the smug smile off the scots red nose gobshite.

King Kenny has some work to do though.

Wow.

tailwindhome

TBH I think the race is nearly run.

1 Man City
2 Man U
3 Spurs
4 Chelsea
5 Arsenal
6 Liverpool


City are a mile ahead of everyone else. It's a minor miracle that Man U are even in touch.

Spurs may implode but I'm pretty sure they have enough to lock down 3rd

Chelsea are lucky that Arsenal and Liverpool have been so bad.

suzyb

Clever Pun wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Chelsea. Because the whole establishment lacks any class whatsoever - built with money from questionable sources and defending a racist staff member to the hilt.

Yawn. What happened to innocent before guilty? I'd be v surprised if Terry (for all his many, many faults) is a racist. He seems well thought of by team mates such as Drogba, Cole etc and has played with black players for years. If he is, then he's hid it very well for along time.

Suarez was hung out to dry well before the verdict. Terry has pretty much been left alone (this maybe cause of the criminal investigation rather than fa kangaroo court)

Wasn't there an admission from him though.

CyclingBantam

DonDaddyD wrote:

I need Arsenal to finish 5th. Why?

Finishing 4th or within the top four will just gloss over the obvious failings of the team as it has done in previous years and won't bring forth the massive overhaul we need to be successful.

Finishing 5th would:

Force the regime (Arsene, the Board and the ridiculous transfer policy) to question their principles and policy.

Give the players a wake up call that simply playing for Arsenal doesn't make them as good as Henry, Viera, Pires et al. It would also remove the "potential, kids, developing" label/excuse and might actually get the players to play to the level and ability the manager believes they might have.

Likely force all those who are just there for money or want better contracts to leave.

Lastly Europa football would be good for the team, we'd likely win that (our players are good enough for that competition) and winning something/anything would give the remianing crop of players the drive and sense of success they are so clearly lacking.

In Arsene I trust but a little failure can be motivational in the long run.

The ridiculous transfer policy that is only to spend money that you have as opposed to the numerous other clubs who simply spend on tick and have brought themselves to within weeks of going bust should something unexpected happen?

Sorry but it really riles me to hear fans of teams in the premiership moaning about hard done by they are and how the board 'don't know what they are doing' simply because they don't spend cash they don't have. Do you learn nothing from looking at what has happened to the likes of Bradford, Pompey, Forest, Plymouth etc, etc, etc? I guess you are all too big to fail?

Try being near the bottom each season, where every win is a bonus and enjoyable, as opposed to whining when you only draw at Wigan etc.

Rant over but this is everything that I hate in 'football'...

CyclingBantam

oh, and DDD - this wasn't directed at you, you were simply walking past (hypothetically) at the wrong moment! I know how sensitive you can be.... ;0)

Clever Pun

suzyb wrote:

Clever Pun wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Chelsea. Because the whole establishment lacks any class whatsoever - built with money from questionable sources and defending a racist staff member to the hilt.

Yawn. What happened to innocent before guilty? I'd be v surprised if Terry (for all his many, many faults) is a racist. He seems well thought of by team mates such as Drogba, Cole etc and has played with black players for years. If he is, then he's hid it very well for along time.

Suarez was hung out to dry well before the verdict. Terry has pretty much been left alone (this maybe cause of the criminal investigation rather than fa kangaroo court)

Wasn't there an admission from him though.

not published until the report came out, Evra claimed he'd said it ten times. He said it once and while it was deemed offensive, the panel said Suarez wasn't racist, but the press were in full lynching mode then

jzed

suzyb wrote:

Clever Pun wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Chelsea. Because the whole establishment lacks any class whatsoever - built with money from questionable sources and defending a racist staff member to the hilt.

Yawn. What happened to innocent before guilty? I'd be v surprised if Terry (for all his many, many faults) is a racist. He seems well thought of by team mates such as Drogba, Cole etc and has played with black players for years. If he is, then he's hid it very well for along time.

Suarez was hung out to dry well before the verdict. Terry has pretty much been left alone (this maybe cause of the criminal investigation rather than fa kangaroo court)

Wasn't there an admission from him though.

Suarez - I did say it but I didn't mean it that way - its native to my country and has a different meaning.
Terry - I did say it but I was telling him I didn't say it.

Suarez - no police investigation - not charged - FA scapegoat - regardless he should have kept his mouth shut
Terry - reviewed by the police, sent to CPS, charged.

CyclingBantam

I thought Suarez had admitted saying it numerous times? It wasn't just once. The whole being racist is irrelevant, you can't ever prove someone is racist as you don't know what goes on in their head. He was making comments that were deemed racist and has been duely punished with what I believe is an appropriate sentence.

As for Terry, just because he has played with black players doesn't mean he wouldn't make a racist comment. Never, ever, underestimate the stupidity of a footballer...

walkingbootweather

Ben6899 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

I need Arsenal to finish 5th. Why?

Finishing 4th or within the top four will just gloss over the obvious failings of the team as it has done in previous years and won't bring forth the massive overhaul we need to be successful.

Finishing 5th would:

Force the regime (Arsene, the Board and the ridiculous transfer policy) to question their principles and policy.

Give the players a wake up call that simply playing for Arsenal doesn't make them as good as Henry, Viera, Pires et al. It would also remove the "potential, kids, developing" label/excuse and might actually get the players to play to the level and ability the manager believes they might have.

Likely force all those who are just there for money or want better contracts to leave.

Lastly Europa football would be good for the team, we'd likely win that (our players are good enough for that competition) and winning something/anything would give the remianing crop of players the drive and sense of success they are so clearly lacking.

In Arsene I trust but a little failure can be motivational in the long run.

DDD, this is a refreshingly accurate and realistic assessment of Arsenal from a supporter of Arsenal. Nice one. When will Wenger concede that established centre-halves are crucial to Premiership success?

In answer to the original question. It doesn't matter and I don't really care.

I'm not especially an Arsenal fan, but I respect them more than most of the other leading teams. I admire the way that Arsenal try to play the game and the fact that they don't simply throw money at trying to buy a trophy. I don't respect the fact that savings from not investing appear to be designed to increase profits rather than benefit fans.

To be honest I'm a bit disillusioned with Premiership football - there are better ways to spend cash than in over-priced tickets, replica shirts and sky subscriptions.

[Edit] CyclingBantam described it well in arguing that clubs should not spend what they don't have. Don't forget fans of the vast majority of clubs go years in which success is measured by avoiding relegation, beating local rivals or taking the scalp of a bigger team [/Edit]

rebs

Not been paying attention to the Prem at all this season. I've not missed it.

Thankfully the Championship is great fun.. oh just so happens my West ham are finally doing well (some how)! :P

spen666

Gazzaputt wrote:

...
KOP King Kenny has some work to do though.

FTFY

DonDaddyD

CyclingBantam wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

I need Arsenal to finish 5th. Why?

Finishing 4th or within the top four will just gloss over the obvious failings of the team as it has done in previous years and won't bring forth the massive overhaul we need to be successful.

Finishing 5th would:

Force the regime (Arsene, the Board and the ridiculous transfer policy) to question their principles and policy.

Give the players a wake up call that simply playing for Arsenal doesn't make them as good as Henry, Viera, Pires et al. It would also remove the "potential, kids, developing" label/excuse and might actually get the players to play to the level and ability the manager believes they might have.

Likely force all those who are just there for money or want better contracts to leave.

Lastly Europa football would be good for the team, we'd likely win that (our players are good enough for that competition) and winning something/anything would give the remianing crop of players the drive and sense of success they are so clearly lacking.

In Arsene I trust but a little failure can be motivational in the long run.

The ridiculous transfer policy that is only to spend money that you have as opposed to the numerous other clubs who simply spend on tick and have brought themselves to within weeks of going bust should something unexpected happen?

Sorry but it really riles me to hear fans of teams in the premiership moaning about hard done by they are and how the board 'don't know what they are doing' simply because they don't spend cash they don't have. Do you learn nothing from looking at what has happened to the likes of Bradford, Pompey, Forest, Plymouth etc, etc, etc? I guess you are all too big to fail?

Try being near the bottom each season, where every win is a bonus and enjoyable, as opposed to whining when you only draw at Wigan etc.

Rant over but this is everything that I hate in 'football'...

Sigh...

We had around £50million to spend this season - further bolstered by the sale of Nasri and Fabregas. Clearly Arsenal aren't just spending within their means but spending far below it. Clearly we had/have money to be spent because when needs must Wenger went out and bought Gervino and then Santos, Mertesacker, Arteta (£10million no less) and Park Chu Young.

The ridiculous transfer policy saw us buying those players (and I really like Gervinho, Santos and Arteta) at the last minute as oppose to having our signongs tied up at the start/during the middle of the summer transfer window like Man Utd did so the Manager can.. you know.. get on with pre-season.

Our transfer/wage policy prevents us from buying players like Gary Cahil, Mata, Hummels, Wilian, Rodwell. While failing to keep players like Nasri, Clichy et al (Fabregas notwithstanding he had and deserved to go live his dream).

A transfer policy isn't about spending money you don't have. It's about how transfers are managed in their entirity.

DonDaddyD

walkingbootweather wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

I need Arsenal to finish 5th. Why?

Finishing 4th or within the top four will just gloss over the obvious failings of the team as it has done in previous years and won't bring forth the massive overhaul we need to be successful.

Finishing 5th would:

Force the regime (Arsene, the Board and the ridiculous transfer policy) to question their principles and policy.

Give the players a wake up call that simply playing for Arsenal doesn't make them as good as Henry, Viera, Pires et al. It would also remove the "potential, kids, developing" label/excuse and might actually get the players to play to the level and ability the manager believes they might have.

Likely force all those who are just there for money or want better contracts to leave.

Lastly Europa football would be good for the team, we'd likely win that (our players are good enough for that competition) and winning something/anything would give the remianing crop of players the drive and sense of success they are so clearly lacking.

In Arsene I trust but a little failure can be motivational in the long run.

DDD, this is a refreshingly accurate and realistic assessment of Arsenal from a supporter of Arsenal. Nice one. When will Wenger concede that established centre-halves are crucial to Premiership success?

In answer to the original question. It doesn't matter and I don't really care.

I'm not especially an Arsenal fan, but I respect them more than most of the other leading teams. I admire the way that Arsenal try to play the game and the fact that they don't simply throw money at trying to buy a trophy. I don't respect the fact that savings from not investing appear to be designed to increase profits rather than benefit fans.

To be honest I'm a bit disillusioned with Premiership football - there are better ways to spend cash than in over-priced tickets, replica shirts and sky subscriptions.

[Edit] CyclingBantam described it well in arguing that clubs should not spend what they don't have. Don't forget fans of the vast majority of clubs go years in which success is measured by avoiding relegation, beating local rivals or taking the scalp of a bigger team [/Edit]

Arsenal play entirely different, different formation, different tactics and far less one touch 'tippy tappy' football than they did with THAT team. People need to understand it's a completely different team with Tomas Risicky as the closest remnant of THAT team (joined the season after).

Financially the Club is a leading light. However financial success seems to have suppassed the importance of footballing success and that's a slap in the face to fans who were there long before the current Directors/owners and will be there long afterwards.

CyclingBantam has a point. I'd hate to see Arsenal waste money in the same way Liverpool has or spend it away like Chelsea and Man City has. It's important to keep the players you have, promote from within and purchase players that can improve and add something. I'd be loathe to see arsenal spean £30+ million on one player.

But the present Arsenal alternative isn't working, in football you do need to spend some money on some players to add to the team and currently we haven't done that very well.

Ben6899

DonDaddyD wrote:

Financially the Club is a leading light. However financial success seems to have suppassed the importance of footballing success and that's a slap in the face to fans who were there long before the current Directors/owners and will be there long afterwards.

CyclingBantam has a point. I'd hate to see Arsenal waste money in the same way Liverpool has or spend it away like Chelsea and Man City has. It's important to keep the players you have, promote from within and purchase players that can improve and add something. I'd be loathe to see arsenal spean £30+ million on one player.

But the present Arsenal alternative isn't working, in football you do need to spend some money on some players to add to the team and currently we have done that terribly.

Another spot-on post, that man. Apart from the last sentence, which I have fixed for you. I don't think I am being harsh with that either, there are some lads at Arsenal who - if the buying/selling players policy was up to scratch - wouldn't garner any interest.

I have long been a fan of Wenger's talent for spotting excellent, young lads (on a par with Fergie - some of Fergie's big name signings tend to disguise the fact he has discovered some excellent young talent), but now he is almost being stubborn about the whole thing. He's needed two QUALITY centre-halves for 5-years or so and he has finally scraped the surface of that particular problem with Vermaelen, who is stand-out amongst the current defensive ranks.

And he sold Clichey without much resistance. After Evra and Cole, the third best leftback in the league.