training - healthy diet but gaining weight

evsy

hey every1

so i have been riding for a few months now.
i have built up from riding 10miles to regularly riding 60 (well, at weekends).

i was feeling quite pleased with myself until i started to track my weight.
i was never really bothered by my weight until i started biking. when i started i weighed just over 12 stone.
my diet hasnt changed at all and think its pretty healthy. i try and make sure i get a full mix of carbs, protein etc and dont have any type of junk food or drink. i even bought a book on cycling diets - racing weight.
thing is i seem to be gaining weight. i am now 12.5 stone.

is this likely to be a gain because of building muscle?? or should i go and see my gp?

thanks for any help

evsy

wishitwasallflat

If your worried about your health see a Doc but muscle is denser (i.e its heavier for the same volume) than fat. So if you are burning fat and building muscle you may well be fitter and stronger but heavier. Body composition (% fat and muscle etc) will tell you if that's your happy problem (wish it would happen to me)!

I think you get fancy weight machines in Boots and the like that measure body composition by impedance but I have no idea how accurate they are.

alihisgreat

You're probably eating more without realising it -> exercise inevitably makes you more hungry..


if you want to loose fat then you pretty much need a calorie deficit so if you don't have a deficient, and you're exercising more then its possible that you are building muscle, and not loosing any significant amount of fat.

Peddle Up!

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

You're probably eating more without realising it -> exercise inevitably makes you more hungry..

Almost certainly this. My trips to the gym are logged and reported in a roughly accurate report of effort vs calories, expressed in the form "Lifted nine elephants = one cream cake."

The body is a very efficient machine - tough if you're trying to lose weight.

keef66

Stop weighing yourself. Stand naked in front of a full length mirror. Be honest about what you see. You can see if you have significant body fat and whether you have more muscle on your legs. Use a tape measure if you want to monitor progress.

+1 to the suggestion that you may be eating more. I'm always ravenous when I've been riding a lot. Try keeping a food diary for a few days, and weigh / measure things rather than guessing. You might get a surprise!

wishitwasallflat

Good advice from keef - if I stand naked in front of a full length mirror and it always puts me off my dinner for a few days!

PS - I think the key phrase re exercise and stimulated appetite is avoid carb cravings

Slack

What's the quality of your carbs like? Are your general day to day energy levels ok?

Are you doing a single 60 mile ride per week?

evsy

thanks for all the replies.

the carbs i usually have are the complex ones - pasta and rice and potatoes.

not really noticed any drop in energy levels during the day.

i have a calorie counter on my phone and have kept track ever since i started biking. thats why i know my diet is pretty much the same as when i started - never exceeding 2000 calories in a day.

think maybe i should get to gp just to be safe. although feel a bit pathetic going to see the dr because ive gained half a stone :oops:
still, i really wanted to get down to 11 stone tbh.

evsy

ollyridesfirst

I use http://www.myfitnesspal.com/ and find it great to track what i eat. It does all the UK food/shops too so very easy to use and has apps for the major player's phones.

Rather than seeing your GP, if you're that worried about losing weight, it might be an idea to see a specialist nutritionist. They'd be able to assist a lot better than a GP.....

hulla the hulla

OllyRidesFirst wrote:

Rather than seeing your GP, if you're that worried about losing weight, it might be an idea to see a specialist nutritionist. They'd be able to assist a lot better than a GP.....

+1, don't waste your doctors time he/she won't be able to tell you anything constructive

andysol

If you are gaining weight then it could be muscle, but you must be eating more that you burn. Even if you are counting everything on some software. Its only as reliable as the data inputed. eg 50grams of carb or 65grams? Do you weigh every thing? I dont.

Also sometimes you miss stuff, eg cup of coffee with milk + sugar, is that banana 70 clories or 100 calories. It depends on the portion size.

Reduce the calaries by 200 and see the affect. If you want to lose weight you must feel hungry! If you dont feel hungry then you are eating enough or too much!

Also dont eat anything after 8:45 - 9:00. Go to bed hungry!

I wouldnt be too worried about 1/2 stone but see a nutritionalist if you feel it will help
Andy

amaferanga

evsy wrote:

i have a calorie counter on my phone and have kept track ever since i started biking. thats why i know my diet is pretty much the same as when i started - never exceeding 2000 calories in a day.

If your calorie counter is like most (e.g. Endomondo, Garmin, etc.) then it'll be hopelessly inaccurate. If it's Endomondo then it'll be massively overestimating calories.

So it may be that you are overeating as you think you are burning more calories than you actually are.

Will Nunez

Just my tuppence worth or should I say experience, it may help

Like you I started cycling at 12 stone. Cycle 150 miles a week minimum, but started to put on weight. Started dieting when I got to 13 stone by calorie counting. Worked out needed 2000 anyway and 1250 for 26 mile commute. Aimed to be 1000 cals deficient per day so id lose 2lbs a week. This worked for a while but I started to lose strength as well as weight Suffered massive energy dips too.

Went to see a nutritionist after a few weeks who measured my BFI (% body fat). Was surprised to find that even after losing a stone my BFI was 22%. She set me a diet that got me down to 8%, from then on I lost fat and my muscle mass remained almost constant. Voila got to 12 stone again, but this time, I definately had more strength .

In a nut shell she stopped me counting calories. Its not calories alone that determine weight loss or gain, but the type of calories. Basically she shifted the bias of carbs/protein towards protein (your body doesnt store surplus protein, however it stores surplus carbs as fat - I know this is a massive over simplification). The point is its worth getting your BFI and then getting a diet that focusses on fat burn rather than calorific deficiency

Muffintop

Are you still fitting in your clothes? If so then chances are it's muscle not fat. You're body will rectify itself. Try to find out what percentage your body fat is at. I find when I start training properly I put on weight but my body fat % goes lower.

Points to note is that unless it's brown rice, wholemeal pasta or baby potatoes with skins on you have been eating foods that have a pretty high GI and are best for just before/during long training rides (the GI ones are, parmasan potatoes ROCK!). Are you eating enough protein after your training rides? I really struggle to eat after a heavy training ride so I have a protein shake.

Also, there is far too much emphasis on these forums as to weight. If your weight gain has gone up to match your endurance on the bike (you've been able to cycle longer, can go faster than usual, are finding hills aren't killing you like they did when you first started) don't bat an eyelid and stop weighing yourself. Especially if you didn't consider it before you started doing this.

Mx

gmacz

I just ride the bike and eat what I normally eat.
Cycle computer is basic and tells me time, average etc.
Lost 1.5 stone and it has stalled at 13 stone, probably because of recent icey weather and the fact I am happy at this weight.
Below 13 stone and I start to eat more to get back to 13 again.
In summer with more cycling, you can lose a lot of weight quickly, in winter, it is a bit slower.
Injuries and the weight climbs and climbs.

jgsi

Ride 7000 kcals a week.

t.m.h.n.e.t

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calcu ... -equation/

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calcu ... weight.php

Then go from there

Will Nunez

Equation based BMR and BMI is an incredibly poor guide. Its based on averages and does not take muscleweight into consideration. A BFI measurement will also give a BMR based on your body composition.

Pross

OllyRidesFirst wrote:

I use http://www.myfitnesspal.com/ and find it great to track what i eat. It does all the UK food/shops too so very easy to use and has apps for the major player's phones.
Rather than seeing your GP, if you're that worried about losing weight, it might be an idea to see a specialist nutritionist. They'd be able to assist a lot better than a GP.....

Started using that app yesterday, it has been a real eye opener - the amount of calories I can have to hit my 2lb a week weight loss plan without any additional exercise is scary (1300kcal roughly) so I can see how I put on 3.5 stone over the last 15 years when my exercise levels were low. On the plus side I'm in regular exercise now and currently have over 800kcals left for today after a 45 minute session in the gym, should be able to treat myself a bit on the weekend if I get out on my bike for a few hours which is a real incentive!

t.m.h.n.e.t

Will Nunez wrote:

Equation based BMR and BMI is an incredibly poor guide. Its based on averages and does not take muscleweight into consideration. A BFI measurement will also give a BMR based on your body composition.

Harris Benedict is very much a recognised formula. Generic yes but it's a better guide to base your intake off than the totally unrealistic goals set by apps like myfitnesspal.

The whole thing is about numbers. You could lose weight on 1500 cals a day but when the loss plateaus there really is nowhere to decrease that further. 1800cals per day is very low for an active male and you have to factor in muscle you wish to maintain and further muscle growth.

gmacz

Do any of the above recognise heavy bones.
My mate suffers from heavy bones.
They weigh an extra 2.5 stone.

Will Nunez

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:

Will Nunez wrote:

Equation based BMR and BMI is an incredibly poor guide. Its based on averages and does not take muscleweight into consideration. A BFI measurement will also give a BMR based on your body composition.

Harris Benedict is very much a recognised formula. Generic yes but it's a better guide to base your intake off than the totally unrealistic goals set by apps like myfitnesspal.

The whole thing is about numbers. You could lose weight on 1500 cals a day but when the loss plateaus there really is nowhere to decrease that further. 1800cals per day is very low for an active male and you have to factor in muscle you wish to maintain and further muscle growth.

Hi im not disagreeing with you, but its more than numbers. Its about how you make up those numbers. And the goal should be to lose fat, not weight, neither BMI or BMR help you on that quest. This is done by focussing on what you eat in terms of carbs and protein. Thats why atkins works, eating protein only will make you lose weight as very little of it can be converted to fat, but its not a healthy diet. Reducing carbs, and only consuming health ones + increasing protein will help maintain musclemas and lose fat. Then there are other tricks like eating snacks to keep the metabolic rate up, "bigger breakfast, smaller dinner", eating protein with fruit to assist in the breakdown of sugars, drinking green tea (imcreases metablic rate) eating after exercise rather than before etc. Ive spent years calorie counting and yoyo dieting.


Since being shown how to use BFI and getting advice from a nutritionist Ive stopped calorie counting and have maintained a low weight and my cycling has come on dramatically from back of pack to front.

t.m.h.n.e.t

Will Nunez wrote:

neither BMI or BMR help you on that quest.

Yes they will as a reasonable starting base. It really doesnt work to just flail a number around in your head and decide that your days cal intake will be this. It's absurd to even imagine

Eat too much and not work it off = fat
Eat to little and overwork = no change

This is done by focussing on what you eat in terms of carbs and protein.

No. It's done by having a clue about what you're eating.Carbs,protein and fat don't make you fat. Eating too much and not burning the difference makes you fat. People like to blame their metabolism or overactive thyroids blah blah blah. Overactive knife and fork if anything....

Thats why atkins works, eating protein only will make you lose weight as very little of it can be converted to fat, but its not a healthy diet.

Protein doesn't directly cause weight loss and low carbs is total BS. Carbs are the fuel of life,name one current champion athlete who promotes the atkins or any other lowcarb diet. Also R.I.P Dr Atkins.

Reducing carbs, and only consuming health ones + increasing protein will help maintain musclemas and lose fat.

As above. carbs = life fuel.

Then there are other tricks like eating snacks to keep the metabolic rate up, "bigger breakfast, smaller dinner", eating protein with fruit to assist in the breakdown of sugars, drinking green tea (imcreases metablic rate) eating after exercise rather than before etc.

Not necessesarily even that. Snacking does keep your metabolism going but the main difference is stopping insulin spiking. You should be aware that insulin,is essentially a fat storage hormone. Come 3pm and you're slumped over your desk craving coffee,anything you consume at that point is pretty much fat in a cup.

Little + often + low gi - happy you

Ive spent years calorie counting and yoyo dieting.

Somewhat evidently.

Since being shown how to use BFI and getting advice from a nutritionist Ive stopped calorie counting and have maintained a low weight and my cycling has come on dramatically from back of pack to front.

Well done, and I mean that with no intended sarcasm.

Muffintop

Will Nunez wrote:

Equation based BMR and BMI is an incredibly poor guide. Its based on averages and does not take muscleweight into consideration. A BFI measurement will also give a BMR based on your body composition.

+1

I always come out as borderline obese on these things yet have a body fat measurement of 20%ish (electronic zip thingy measuring how the current flows through your body).

Will Nunez

@T.M.H.N.E.T dont really want to hijack thread may even start another one. But I think you will find that the balance of carbs and protein will have a bigger impact on wether you lose fat as opposed to fat and muscle mass. I stand by my statement that calorie counting alone may help you lose weight but if you are doing exercise or cycling then focussing on what those calories are made up of will help.
I didnt say atkins was a good diet merely that the premise is a bias towards protein, which if it forms most of someones diet will lose fat as opposed to muscle mass. I agree carbs are life food, and essential cycling fuel, but excessive carbs will get stored as fat, excessive protein will not. So if you are dieting it makes sense to bulk out on protein and reduce carbs till you get the desired weight then shift the balance when you get there

ollyridesfirst

Pross wrote:

should be able to treat myself a bit on the weekend if I get out on my bike for a few hours which is a real incentive!

An absolute must if you're looking at any sort of body change or disciplined activity you are doing. The ability to reward yourself when you hit certain goals keeps up motivation and is what most people don't have.

t.m.h.n.e.t

Will Nunez wrote:

@T.M.H.N.E.T dont really want to hijack thread may even start another one. But I think you will find that the balance of carbs and protein will have a bigger impact on wether you lose fat as opposed to fat and muscle mass. I stand by my statement that calorie counting alone may help you lose weight but if you are doing exercise or cycling then focussing on what those calories are made up of will help.
I didnt say atkins was a good diet merely that the premise is a bias towards protein, which if it forms most of someones diet will lose fat as opposed to muscle mass. I agree carbs are life food, and essential cycling fuel, but excessive carbs will get stored as fat, excessive protein will not. So if you are dieting it makes sense to bulk out on protein and reduce carbs till you get the desired weight then shift the balance when you get there

You agree that carbs are life fuel yet recommend cutting them out? It's simple enough -excessive carbs are only excessive when you eat too much and/or are lazy.Balance is needed between what your daily intake of carbs is compared to your level of activity. What you appear to suggest is keeping the same if not increased level of activity yet cutting carbs significantly. That in any circumstance is not good advice. It wont lead to anything productive.

Why would you wish to consume an excess of protein,nothing like simple ways to burn a hole in your wallet?especially if your intake is supplemented. Excess protein is essentially waste product worthy of urinals or a good flush.

For most people initial weighloss is water and/or muscle which you really need to use to prevent loss. How does the saying go "use it or lose it' all more reason for cyclists to adopt some form of upper body workout. After which protein intake becomes more of a necessity

Will Nunez

Ok firstly the OP was asking for opinions re gaining weight on a healthy diet.

Im putting across an opinion that calories counting and BMI are not the best, in my opinion and experience, I appreciate you have a different one and am not saying you are wrong. Im saying that using BFI and focussing on Fat content will give a better indicator for exercise and diet. Changing your BFI is done by controlling the balance of carbs/proteins/fat rather than calorie counting. I have not said stop carbs, you are deliberately misquoting, Im saying by shifting the ratios you can change the BFI.

Surely the goal of a cyclist is not just to be light but to have strength. Id rather be 12 stone with a BFI of 8% than 11 stone and a BFI of 25%.

And im not advocating eating a bull everynight either and eating excessive protein. Protein is an energy giver too, its just slower burn, but that means you feel fuller longer. If you wish to discuss the minute details of the benefits of carbs/proteins etc, im open to discuss on a seperate thread (discussion not attacking). For the sake of the OP lets debate the merits of BFI or BMI in assisting him by providing alternatives to help him rather than pick holes in each others theories

Slack

I don't buy this 'putting on muscle' thing. Half a stone of muscles is alot, you would see a significant difference in your leg size!

If you are only doing a 60 mile ride on the weekend, then you maybe need to cut down on your midweek food consumption. There is a fine line on how much to cut back by, which you will probably only work out by trial and error. It may even be as simple as a couple slices of bread.

If you don't want to cut back on food during the week, then you need to start thinking about incorporating some midweek training.

In essence, it sounds like you are eating more than your body needs.

Will Nunez

Hi im not advocatting putting on muscle. The point which im not putting across very well, is that if you have weight to lose then using and monitoring BFI, the weight can be lost predominantly from fat by choosing the right combination of food types. If you do it by calories only then you will lose fat and muscle, and sometimes that means you can lose strength.

Like you say though its all trial and error and what works for one doesnt work for all. And it does depend on how much exercise you do. But I can empathise with OP exercise and healthy diet alone doent keep the weight down.

keef66

"But I can empathise with OP exercise and healthy diet alone doent keep the weight down"

Yes it does, if you're burning more calories than you're eating. Simples, as the meerkats would say.