Sportive Fitness

KentPuncheur

Hi Gents, need a bit of help/advice on bike fitness. This year (my first full year with a carbon road bike) I'm aiming to do between 15-20 sportives, all in the UK South-East area (note: I'm pleasently surprised to see so many being organised and my experiences so far of events have been superb).

At the moment I am building up my fitness before the first one starts on the first weekend of March, mainly doing 2 to 3 nights a week in the gym (I commute to London so time in the evenings is restricted) doing 45 minute interval training (using a HRM - 3 minutes of high intensity work and 2 minutes recovery) and getting a medium training ride of 30-50km on a Saturday and longer c60km+ club run on a Sunday.

Do you feel this is a decent enough programme at the moment and do you have any tips for how to train between sportive events (there will be some events on consecutive weekends or with a weekend in between).

Any help/advice would be appreciated.

Pseudonym

I would aim to do some at least one long ride (4hrs+) each week - you don't seem to be doing much cycling.....and I don't see the gym work as being useful at all - you would be better off spending that time at home on a turbo....

As a general principle though, you don't really need to 'train' for sportive events - you just need to be able to cover the distance...

KentPuncheur

Pseudonym wrote:

I would aim to do some at least one long ride (4hrs+) each week - you don't seem to be doing much cycling.....and I don't see the gym work as being useful at all - you would be better off spending that time at home on a turbo....

As a general principle though, you don't really need to 'train' for sportive events - you just need to be able to cover the distance...

I get a good couple of rides in at the weekends, normally the club run goes on for a few hours. The problem is that in the evenings I get back at 7:30pm normally and the country lanes around me are not too inviting in the pitch black.

My local gym has a spin suite where I use they're bikes...is that not more or less the same as a turbo?

Also, althouigh sportives are about finishing the distance I want to aim to get at least one gold standard time. I'm too competitive just to settle for finishing!

Pseudonym

it's just that you said your Sunday 'long' ride was 60km, which is less than 40 miles. I think you need to be doing more than that...

Realistically, I don't think you'll get gold times on that amount of riding.....

Cleat Eastwood

i'd have to agree with pseudonym, what catches most people out on sportives is the distance - being comfortable for the last 10 miles of a 4-5hr ride can make all the difference between you seeing the event as a flop or a great success. Also you need to do longer rides to see at what distance or time you feel you need to take on more food/water, it's all about developing a routine based on your own pace.

amaferanga

Club runs are crap training IME. Too much time spent soft pedalling and chatting.

CakeLovinBeast

Surely that makes them just about perfect for sportive training then?

cougie

I'd not bother with the Saturday run. What can you achieve on that distance ?
And yes the Sunday run could do with being a bit longer somaybe extend that each week ?

The spin sessions will definitely help you but your lack of endurance will work against you.

That's a lot of sportives ? Must cost you a fortune ?

spokegeezer

amaferanga wrote:

Club runs are crap training IME. Too much time spent soft pedalling and chatting.

So true, invariably end up with 60% in zone1 total rubbish training

cougie

Club runs are fine to get some miles in. If you haven't any base then you will struggle.

cyberknight

Pseudonym wrote:

it's just that you said your Sunday 'long' ride was 60km, which is less than 40 miles. I think you need to be doing more than that...

Realistically, I don't think you'll get gold times on that amount of riding.....

+1 , you need to be doing that sort of distance + solo and doing around 60-70 miles + on a club run.Some club runs do soft pedal but it is just a case of finding a club with runs that can stretch you , our club fast runs certainly motor .

simon_e

It's only January, so don't panic just yet.

Your interval session sounds OK to keep your aerobic system developing during the week. Can you cycle to the gym?

Spin bikes aren't the same as the turbo, they usually have soft, wide seats to suit ladies' bottoms and a sit-up-and-beg riding position (as they are mostly used by women who do no real cycling and triathletes who don't know any better). The more you ride in the same position as your own bike the better. In short: cancel the gym membership and buy a turbo trainer if you want to do it properly.

Make your Sunday ride longer, perhaps do an additional 20km solo beforehand. As the season approaches the rides should get harder and, if your target events are hilly, then build in tougher hills too - the ride should get more like the events you'll be riding.

Take it easy on Mondays so you're fresh for a turbo/gym session on Tuesday. Same applies the day after the event. Rehydrate promptly (choccy milk, banana smoothie, or a branded recovery drink if you've money to burn) then get some good food down you afterwards (beans on toast, tuna & pasta, baked potato). Try to avoid overly fatty foods and too much alcohol.

This article might help:
http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/articl ... ive-25946/
There's lots of info out there:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sportive+training+plan

cougie

Simon E - the spin bikes at my gym are very adjustable - reach on the bars, height on the bars, height of the saddle and layback of the saddle. You can get a decent position on the bike, and its a normal saddle too.

Normal gym bikes are pants. Spin bikes are pretty decent - and if you get a good teacher - its very similar to a turbo session. Handy for people who prefer to work out in a group - or have a gym membership they want to get good use from.

FWIW our club champion TTer swore by spin classes - he'd do 45 mins alone on the bike and then go into a class to get pushed for another 45 minutes.

ric/rstsport

cougie wrote:

Simon E - the spin bikes at my gym are very adjustable - reach on the bars, height on the bars, height of the saddle and layback of the saddle. You can get a decent position on the bike, and its a normal saddle too.

Normal gym bikes are pants. Spin bikes are pretty decent - and if you get a good teacher - its very similar to a turbo session. Handy for people who prefer to work out in a group - or have a gym membership they want to get good use from.

FWIW our club champion TTer swore by spin classes - he'd do 45 mins alone on the bike and then go into a class to get pushed for another 45 minutes.

i've seen some spin classes and they don't really target the training that is needed for events such as sportives or RR or TTs etc. (at least the few i've seen). On the other hand, doing some group workouts turbo or spin is probably a reasonably effective use of time as it may force you to do something, rather than sitting home and watching say Eastenders.

Lots of people are time limited during the week, and i would *never* suggest that riders go training in the dark (in all honesty i'll never ask a rider to attempt a session i've never tried - i may not be able to ride with the consistency, absolute intensity or volume as some of the pros and world champs i coach, but i do try the sessions first. and i'd never train in the dark on the road). However, you can probably do more effective training on the turbo on your own bike (albeit it may miss the social atmosphere of spin/gym).

If you're not quite sure what exactly you should be doing, please drop me a line, we'd be delighted to help you.
ric

KentPuncheur

Thanks for all the advice guys. It's obvious to me that I need to up my distances on the bike, and that will come as the club runs get longer (by the way the very minimum ride length is 60km - in my OP I did say 60km+ as a guide, before Xmas we were riding 80-90km so I hope this distance will return in the next few weeks), and I will focus on my Saturday rides to pick up extra millage and get over some hilly sections of the Downs.

Week time riding is not really an option for me, and in the absence of a turbo trainer I think I'll continue with the gym spin bikes as so far I am seeing a big improvement in my riding performance at the weekends. The spin bikes are very adjustable (seat post, bar height/distance from seat post, saddle position etc) and my riding position on them is akin (not perfect, but close) to that of my own bike, the saddles are very slim and firm, the pedals accomodate my cleats, all in all I think the riding experience on them isn't too different from a turbo trainer (unless I really am missing some other point?!).

I normally train by myself for 45 mins, hitting my 80-90% max HR zone for 3 minutes then recover for 2 minutes. If there is a spin class, I will go for 20-30 mins beforehand as I think the intensity isn't quite there for me. I read in Chris Carmichael's book that week-time high intensity interval training can help me with my lactic acid processing and tolerance which will aid me for endurance rides (obviously with me upping my distances at the weekend), do you think that is still relevant advice?

I'm due to be going to mid-Wales for a week in Feb where I will be getting a week's worth of training rides in the hills and valleys which I will now re-route to get longer distances. I'm also planning to go to Spain for a week in April (near Alcudia) with some experienced club members to get a good week's worth of training in. Hopefully that should leave me in better shape for the May - September period, I just need to get through 4 sportives I have planned for March/April.

What I do struggle with, is bonking on longer rides. I tend to keep myself hydrated but struggle with working out how much to eat before a long ride in the morning, and when and how much to eat during a ride, any suggestions?

SBezza

KentPuncheur wrote:

What I do struggle with, is bonking on longer rides. I tend to keep myself hydrated but struggle with working out how much to eat before a long ride in the morning, and when and how much to eat during a ride, any suggestions?

You are probably not bonking, but just getting fatigued as your body is just not used to the distance or the effort you are trying to do them at. On long rides just eat at regular intervals, I tend to eat a cereal bar every hour and normally just have water, though sometimes an energy drink. You will obviously be different, but it is not a bad starting place, I would suggest aiming for 60gms of carbs per hour and see how you go.

I would try and eat breakfast at least an hour before riding, but no more than 2 hours.

As you get fitter the distance becomes easier, and then you would normally start doing it faster.

racingcondor

A couple of years ago I had a colleague who commuted about 60 miles to work. Over the summer he would take the train most days but when he could he would ride in one day and then ride home the following day.

You commute in to London, would it be possible to do something similar to up your mileage? It takes planning (and showers at work) but riding to work is by far the easiest way to get your weekly mileage up.

colinsmith123

Kent Puncheur wrote
I read in Chris Carmichael's book...

Read the chapter on nutrition. I did, and now I don't bonk.

KentPuncheur

colinsmith123 wrote:

Kent Puncheur wrote
I read in Chris Carmichael's book...

Read the chapter on nutrition. I did, and now I don't bonk.

Thanks, it was an Xmas present and I've read the chapters on training exercises but didn't get round to nutrition, I'll brush up.

simon_e

Whereabouts in mid-Wales are you staying? Lovely scenery, great roads and some steep hills but the weather can be awful in summer, never mind February.

OfficerDigby

Do a few local Audaxs as warm-up to Sportives.

Cheap. Should cover you for the extra distance (min 100km) and if you get close to bonking you can just stop and have a more substantial refuel.


Better yet, realize how good those Audaxs are and save a pretty penny by mixing and matching between the two.

IME after once or twice 100km+ early in the year sorts out the legs/head enough for Sportive/Audax-ing. What I mean is if you haven't done the distance at least once then you probably gonna suffer a tad in first event!

I'm not a coach but personally don't see any bother riding, as you do both Sat and Sun. Going faster on Sat presumably, especially if the club thing is slow.

Turbo takes a special type of dedication - Still looking at my new one (bought on a big offer) in it's box - after the last one rusted! Whereas currently the odd spin session fits for me when can't get out.

KentPuncheur

Simon E wrote:

Whereabouts in mid-Wales are you staying? Lovely scenery, great roads and some steep hills but the weather can be awful in summer, never mind February.

I'm staying with family on the outskirts of Welshpool for a couple of days, will attempt so rides around Powys/Shropshire way, then I'm heading to Aberystwyth for a Uni reunion for 5 days were I'll get some long rides in over the hills there, around Devils Bridge and Lampeter etc.

I emailed the Ystwyth cycling club and they have kindly invited me along to their club runs and a couple of their riders may join me for rides in the week to show me some good routes...lovely gesture I think.

Tom Butcher

I think your training is not too bad - especially if your club run is closer to 90k than 60k. Of course if you can do say 100k once a week that would be better. As for it being a club run - well the definition varies - is it a social spin stopping at the top of hills or is it several hours of attrition - you want it to be hard enough for your level of fitness.

I wouldn't worry about the spinning bit. I know some good riders who do spinning - I know spin may not be optimum and your own bike on a turbo is that little bit more specific than a spin bike but a lot of training is consistency and if you enjoy spinning you'll keep doing it. There's a guy in our club came to cycling through pretty much just beasting himself in the gym on the spin bikes - with relatively little outdoor riding after he joined us he something like a 56 minute 25 on a standard road bike - so it worked for him.

Perhaps look at mixing up your sessions so you do some longer extended intervals - maybe even a warm up of 10 minutes then a 30 minute hard or a 2*15 minute rep session - these can take a bit more focus than the full on shorter reps but for sportives are possibly more relevant.

The other thing is if you are doing 20 odd sportives over the Spring and Summer that mileage alone will have an impact as you go through the year. You aren't likely to be the first rider back but I think you'll be as well trained as most taking part. Of course if you do more training you'll likely do better

KentPuncheur

Thanks Tom, I think what I'm taking away from people's advice is that my spin sessions aren't the worst idea ever invented, but I'm going to extend their lengths as the intensity is there, just not the right endurance.

My sunday club run can be pretty intense if the right mix of competitive riders are there, but putting in an intense training loop before and after the longer runs can up both milleage and endurance fitness.

As for my solo Saturday rides, that's where I'm going to really increase my mileage. Aiming to do 100km there will ensure that my weekly ride load is sufficient in length, and the spin sessions should take care of my lactate threshold etc.

Thanks for all the advice chaps.

simon_e

KentPuncheur wrote:

I'm staying with family on the outskirts of Welshpool for a couple of days, will attempt so rides around Powys/Shropshire way, then I'm heading to Aberystwyth for a Uni reunion for 5 days were I'll get some long rides in over the hills there, around Devils Bridge and Lampeter etc.

I emailed the Ystwyth cycling club and they have kindly invited me along to their club runs and a couple of their riders may join me for rides in the week to show me some good routes...lovely gesture I think.

Some suggested routes:
Forden - Montgomery- B4385 to Bishop's Castle - Churchstoke - Chirbury.

Forden - Chirbury - Churchstoke - Snead, L onto A488 North, in Minsterley L at RAB (B4499) then L in Brockton (B4386) to Forden.

Guilsfield - Arddleen - B4393 via Llandrinio - Crew Green - at Prince's Oak turn R onto u/c - Halfway House - Westbury, then R onto B4386 to Chirbury etc.

Or R in Forden signposted 'school' onto u/c road to Caerhowel. At T-jct after Lion Hotel in Caerhowel go L under railway then immediately R onto B4386 to Abermule. L here over L/C onto B4368, L at Glanmule onto A489 then a choice of routes home.

In Montgomery the tea room/cafe opposite Checkers do proper homemade food, including terrific scones with jam and cream (though you might not feel like pedalling hard afterwards!). Hope you have some good weather.

KentPuncheur

Thought I'd post back to this thread to update on how my training, performance and goals changed over the course of the year so far.

Following all your helpful feedback, I changed my weekend training to include a long 'hard' ride on a Saturday of over 100km. A couple of club mates join me on this and we push ourselves harder than on a more sociable club run, and this has done well to both improve my base fitness and we throw in some max effort intervals on the return leg to target our top end fitness. Then on a typical Sunday I get out a good hour before a club run to get a more intense ride in and use the club run (which is normally between 80 and 100km) as more a recovery/social ride which helps with the base.

For week training, I bought myself a turbo trainer and get in 2 interval sessions targeting my upper HR zones. I also try to get two evening rides, but commuting from London to Kent often means this is only the 1, of between 35-50km (again, work depending). I use strava, and have planned a couple of hard training rides where I use segments as intervals (generally short steep hills in the area or long drags). This is a really motivating way to train, especially when you get, and defend, KOMs!

Overall this has really improved my performance on the bike. I have completed 10 sportives so far this year, and the last 2 events I achieved gold standard times which I'm really proud of. My improvement in time is pretty good I feel, for instance I did the 110km Puncheur in March in 5hr1min (although this was a little weather affected) but recently did the 110km Reigate Sportive in 3hr35min!

Although sportives have their pluses, I am now looking at getting into cat races for next year, and will be getting some help from a coach over the winter to get a more structured approach to my training (with a v02/ramp test) which will hopefully put me in good shape for next season...

Anyway, thanks for all the tips and feedback, I'm loving the improvements on the bike and look forward to more competitive cycling next year!

bahzob

Congratulations and good luck with the racing.

pipipi

Well done KP!

I need to get that well organised...

Davey C

Another well done from me. A sensible simple question, some sensible simple replies and the result is a guy who has achieved his goals. Awesome