Hill climbing

mbhuw

Firstly, apologies. I know i'm opening a well worked can of worms but it has to be done
Basically i want to improve my hill climbing. Currently i have no major strength in cycling i'm just an all round average rider. I'm 16, about 5,10 and weigh 8 and a half stone. Hill climbing is probably my favourite aspect of cycling and looking at my body measurements i think it is the one most suited to me.
However, i'm currently not getting the speeds i would like to on hills. There's one particular hill i like to ride thats just over 1 and a half miles long and goes up through sharp inclines and then flattens out again. I can just about hold out 7.5mph average the whole way up the hill.
I want to improve this but am unsure of how to do it. I know cycling hills as often as i can is the most useful training but is there anything else i can do?
What is it that i need to improve, my power/strength or my endurance? I do intervals on my turbo just about every other night, is there any plans that would improve my hills?
Thanks

Garz

Practice on your rhythm and breathing techniques. Vary the hill repeats with high/low cadence and out of saddle/seated efforts.

cyco2

From your description you should be good at climbing, perhaps you need more time training. The quickest way to climb is out of the saddle so train to climb that hill all they way up that way.

al_kidder

cyco2 wrote:

From your description you should be good at climbing, perhaps you need more time training. The quickest way to climb is out of the saddle so train to climb that hill all they way up that way.

Not so, in my opinion. Out of the saddle, you can push a bigger gear, but at a lower cadence. I find that climbing is faster seated, but stretching the legs by standing for a bit eases the pain.

At my height, 5'10', 8 1/2 stone is very underweight, even allowing for your age meaning that your bones aren't as dense as they will be. BMI of 17.3 is more than 10% lower than healthy rance of 20-25. You'll see Contador is about the same height and has BMI of a shade under 20, from memory, with very low body fat.

So the good news is that you can make a pig of yourself and convert that food into thigh muscles, and you'll end up able to go up hills like a mountain goat

ric/rstsport

mbhuw wrote:

Firstly, apologies. I know i'm opening a well worked can of worms but it has to be done
Basically i want to improve my hill climbing. Currently i have no major strength in cycling i'm just an all round average rider. I'm 16, about 5,10 and weigh 8 and a half stone. Hill climbing is probably my favourite aspect of cycling and looking at my body measurements i think it is the one most suited to me.
However, i'm currently not getting the speeds i would like to on hills. There's one particular hill i like to ride thats just over 1 and a half miles long and goes up through sharp inclines and then flattens out again. I can just about hold out 7.5mph average the whole way up the hill.
I want to improve this but am unsure of how to do it. I know cycling hills as often as i can is the most useful training but is there anything else i can do?
What is it that i need to improve, my power/strength or my endurance? I do intervals on my turbo just about every other night, is there any plans that would improve my hills?
Thanks

It's possible that you are lacking strength, BUT, this will have NOTHING to do with you not being able to ride fast enough uphill (unless that is that e.g. you have problems standing and can't support your own weight).

What you lack is aerobic power. On the one hand you'll likely increase this during the maturation process, but of course this can also be increased via training. Depending on your other goals, this can be achieved via intervals and endurance work. You could try
riding in a group and trying to stay with better riders uphill
doing hill efforts that take between 5 & 10-mins at a slightly harder *effort* (ignore speed) than this hill (that you mention above)
doing longer sessions, say 90-mins, at an effort that is slightly uncomfortable but not race effort
regular consistent training
lots of other things (too many to mention!)

Good luck tho, at your weight you'll be flying up the hills in no time at all!

celbianchi

cyco2 wrote:

The quickest way to climb is out of the saddle so train to climb that hill all they way up that way.

Not really. Look at any autumnal hill climb race - you don't see many people riding out of the saddle all the way up a hill climb race. Most UK HC races are <1.5 miles also.

To the OP - there are things you can try such as break the hill into 3 0.5 mile stretches and aim to ride each one progresively harder than the last. Don't set out flat out as this is unsustainable unless a very very short duration.
Increasing you short duration (5 minute) power will help, you certainly don't need shed any weight.

mbhuw

Thanks everyone. I know i don't need to loose any weight, i am trying to push it up to 9 stone but struggle to put weight on.
I don't quite understand the aerobic power bit. Would doing just any cardio work that pushes me hard increase my aerobic power? T

ric/rstsport

mbhuw wrote:

Thanks everyone. I know i don't need to loose any weight, i am trying to push it up to 9 stone but struggle to put weight on.
I don't quite understand the aerobic power bit. Would doing just any cardio work that pushes me hard increase my aerobic power? T

to a certain extent, anything you do on the bike will help. but specifically, you want to work at increasing your (biking) aerobic power. i gave some examples of stuff above. it's unlikely that any cardio work would help (e.g. skiing, swimming, running, aerobics) unless your fitness is quite low. if you race and can keep up (in say a road race) then you should concentrate on cycling to improve to your cycling power. if you're not that fast that any aerobic work is likely to help you, BUT, your fastest gains would still come from cycling.

ric

cyco2

Al Kidder wrote:

cyco2 wrote:

From your description you should be good at climbing, perhaps you need more time training. The quickest way to climb is out of the saddle so train to climb that hill all they way up that way.

Not so, in my opinion. Out of the saddle, you can push a bigger gear, but at a lower cadence. I find that climbing is faster seated, but stretching the legs by standing for a bit eases the pain.

You should see how some of the climbers in the Tour of Spain and more especially the Tour of Britain generate speed by spinning out of the saddle. The rider John Tieran Locke, British, is the most amazing climber I have ever seen. It is a very valuable asset to have and the sooner you learn to use it the better. I also envy BMX riders for there ability to spin for the distance of a race. If they sat down to ride they wouldn't get anywhere. When I get out of the saddle I don't do it to rest but to go faster at a higher cadence in the same gear or go higher to gain speed on flat bits, it depends.
If you learn to climb extensively out of the saddle you will always overhaul a sat down rider of same ability. I have raced extensively and most attacks come from an out of saddle rider. Mined you when a sat down rider has blown me off they have my respect.

colinsmith123

http://www.pbscience.com/training-articles/session-descriptions.html

rolf_f

celbianchi wrote:

cyco2 wrote:

The quickest way to climb is out of the saddle so train to climb that hill all they way up that way.

Not really. Look at any autumnal hill climb race - you don't see many people riding out of the saddle all the way up a hill climb race. Most UK HC races are <1.5 miles also.

I've timed the climb straight out of my house on my commute hundreds of times. Sometimes I do it out of the saddle, mostly not. Sat in the saddle is quicker. It's obvious really - more efficient as not having to constantly lift my bodyweight so it's bound to be quicker to sit over any distance. Of course, it does seem quicker stood out of the saddle - the change of muscles gives you a feeling of power and the need to drop cadence makes you think you must be going faster because you've changed to a higher gear - but the computer doesn't think so! But broadly speaking, I end up at the top of the hill having taken a very similar time but feeling a lot more knackered!

smidsy

Essentially hill repeats and intervals are probably the most useful training regimes for increasing your aerobic fitness, and thus getting you climbing faster.

If you are already doing these then it sounds as though you need to increase the duration or intensity of these sessions.

bernithebiker

Rolf F wrote:

celbianchi wrote:

cyco2 wrote:

The quickest way to climb is out of the saddle so train to climb that hill all they way up that way.

Not really. Look at any autumnal hill climb race - you don't see many people riding out of the saddle all the way up a hill climb race. Most UK HC races are <1.5 miles also.

I've timed the climb straight out of my house on my commute hundreds of times. Sometimes I do it out of the saddle, mostly not. Sat in the saddle is quicker. It's obvious really - more efficient as not having to constantly lift my bodyweight so it's bound to be quicker to sit over any distance. Of course, it does seem quicker stood out of the saddle - the change of muscles gives you a feeling of power and the need to drop cadence makes you think you must be going faster because you've changed to a higher gear - but the computer doesn't think so! But broadly speaking, I end up at the top of the hill having taken a very similar time but feeling a lot more knackered!

My best Strava hill climb times have all been >70% out of the saddle. If I can't keep the power going, then I'll sit and spin like a crazy beast, then stand again.

It may not be the most efficient long term climbing method, but it sure kicks out the power, because you can bring your full body weight to bear on the pedals, (and I find pull up easier on the backstroke, but let's not get started on that...!)

Froomes Edgar

mbhuw wrote:

Firstly, apologies. I know i'm opening a well worked can of worms but it has to be done
Basically i want to improve my hill climbing. Currently i have no major strength in cycling i'm just an all round average rider. I'm 16, about 5,10 and weigh 8 and a half stone. Hill climbing is probably my favourite aspect of cycling and looking at my body measurements i think it is the one most suited to me.
However, i'm currently not getting the speeds i would like to on hills. There's one particular hill i like to ride thats just over 1 and a half miles long and goes up through sharp inclines and then flattens out again. I can just about hold out 7.5mph average the whole way up the hill.
I want to improve this but am unsure of how to do it. I know cycling hills as often as i can is the most useful training but is there anything else i can do?
What is it that i need to improve, my power/strength or my endurance? I do intervals on my turbo just about every other night, is there any plans that would improve my hills?
Thanks

Why do you think your speed is inadequate? There are hills that Contador couldn't take at above 7.5mph. As I'm guessing you don't have a powermeter, the best way to judge is to ride with others - if they're thrashing you, then think about your training. If not, then what's the problem.