Work Life balance.

verylonglegs

Il Principe wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I don't envisage ever wanting a job where it matters to me so little I'd bolt out the door at 5pm or whenever.

You do it all day, so why not do it well?

Since when did "leaving on time" = not doing your job well, or it not mattering? This is exactly the cultural problem that I'm talking about.

This. 37.5hrs a week is fine for me but that is not to say I don't do my job with total dilligence or that I loathe it, I'm just content with the position I'm in. I've so far resisted being moved up to management as I'm not motivated by money or have any desire to enter the world of spreadsheets and tedious meetings and having to worry about work after hours. There are just too many other things I'd like to do with my life.

Frank the tank

verylonglegs wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I don't envisage ever wanting a job where it matters to me so little I'd bolt out the door at 5pm or whenever.

You do it all day, so why not do it well?

Since when did "leaving on time" = not doing your job well, or it not mattering? This is exactly the cultural problem that I'm talking about.

This. 37.5hrs a week is fine for me but that is not to say I don't do my job with total dilligence or that I loathe it, I'm just content with the position I'm in. I've so far resisted being moved up to management as I'm not motivated by money or have any desire to enter the world of spreadsheets and tedious meetings and having to worry about work after hours. There are just too many other things I'd like to do with my life.

I've been blue collar all my life, for these reasons. I, like many of my colleagues go the extra yard to get the job done if neccessary it's always appreciated, but, you're only as good as your last job and some gaffers have short memories,occassionaly you have to remind them of the "good will" aspects.

pb21

I suppose it’s kind of true that some people work to live while others live to work, and then some people in-between.

Everyone is different but it seems there is only one socially acceptable way to live.

cornerblock

pb21 wrote:

I suppose it’s kind of true that some people work to live while others live to work, and then some people in-between.

Everyone is different but it seems there is only one socially acceptable way to live.

What's that then?

ddraver

Cornerblock wrote:

pb21 wrote:

I suppose it’s kind of true that some people work to live while others live to work, and then some people in-between.

Everyone is different but it seems there is only one socially acceptable way to live.

What's that then?

Certainly only one fun way to live....

cornerblock

ddraver wrote:

Cornerblock wrote:

pb21 wrote:

I suppose it’s kind of true that some people work to live while others live to work, and then some people in-between.

Everyone is different but it seems there is only one socially acceptable way to live.

What's that then?

Certainly only one fun way to live....

pb21

Cornerblock wrote:

pb21 wrote:

I suppose it’s kind of true that some people work to live while others live to work, and then some people in-between.

Everyone is different but it seems there is only one socially acceptable way to live.

What's that then?

37.5 hours per week, minimum, anything less and you're considered workshy. Someone where I work chooses to work 4 days a week. A lot of people, however tongue in cheek, comment when he is not in, despite the fact he is probably the most productive, which is probably because he has a work life balance that suits him.

If you work more you can go around and complain about it, whilst at the same time in a way ind of boasting. At least that's how it seems to me! It's weird.

Stone Glider

This long hours thing seems very British, or is the USA similar? In Oz the reverse applies, "if you can't do your job in the hours set you aren't any good at it are you?" There the idea seems to be that you work hard and play hard, weekends are sacred but you do your share at work. My ex-partner Keith used to tell a story about his first placement working for a surveying and land agency partnership in the 60's. The senior partner would stand at the door at five-o-clock and see everyone off the premises. If you were still at your desk, nothing was said but a couple of weeks later you were 'called in' and asked, very kindly, if you were OK or did you have trouble handling the workload? The message, gently but firmly put, shape up or ship out.

We have grandchildren, they are very young but won't be for long, a fleeting time. The burden may be heavy for you at present but it will pass and you will regret it's passing.

ddraver

I ve heard from an ex-colleague of mine, who's now at BP that the same rules apply. If you re working late and stressed you don't do a good job so get out at 5 (or whenever they get out)

That said maybe they'd have checked the Cement Bond Log better in Makondo-1 if they'd stayed till 5:01 (Ohhh geoburned!!!)

Jez mon

Stone Glider wrote:

This long hours thing seems very British, or is the USA similar? In Oz the reverse applies, "if you can't do your job in the hours set you aren't any good at it are you?" There the idea seems to be that you work hard and play hard, weekends are sacred but you do your share at work. My ex-partner Keith used to tell a story about his first placement working for a surveying and land agency partnership in the 60's. The senior partner would stand at the door at five-o-clock and see everyone off the premises. If you were still at your desk, nothing was said but a couple of weeks later you were 'called in' and asked, very kindly, if you were OK or did you have trouble handling the workload? The message, gently but firmly put, shape up or ship out.

We have grandchildren, they are very young but won't be for long, a fleeting time. The burden may be heavy for you at present but it will pass and you will regret it's passing.

When I was doing my year in industry last year, it wasn't unusual to get e-mails from US colleagues at 11pm their time, plus the holiday allowance generally seems appalling for most jobs out there.

I think decisions on working hours are not just based upon whether you live to work or work to live, it's a combination of how you want your career to progress (lots of unessential OT isn't always best though) how much you enjoy your job, and what you actually do.

At the end of the day, I was always advised by my parents to do a job which I enjoyed, hence doing a degree which hopefully opens up lots of doors (mechanical engineering) you spend far too much of your life at work (even if you just work your hours) to do something you hate.

cornerblock

pb21 wrote:

Cornerblock wrote:

pb21 wrote:

I suppose it’s kind of true that some people work to live while others live to work, and then some people in-between.

Everyone is different but it seems there is only one socially acceptable way to live.

What's that then?

37.5 hours per week, minimum, anything less and you're considered workshy. Someone where I work chooses to work 4 days a week. A lot of people, however tongue in cheek, comment when he is not in, despite the fact he is probably the most productive, which is probably because he has a work life balance that suits him.

If you work more you can go around and complain about it, whilst at the same time in a way ind of boasting. At least that's how it seems to me! It's weird.

Ok I see where you're coming from. I would say the colleagues who snipe about the 4 day a week person are actually jealous. Most of us would like to spend less time working and have more time with our families and doing the things we enjoy. Many a day I wake up wishing that I could go out and ride the bike all day instead of having to go to work!

NickintheLakes

Sounds like you are in a rut (OP) - not a good place to be and not so easy to get out of esp' with the responsibilities that you have. Maybe you need to look at re-skilling or even finding a way to apply your current skills elsewhere.

Personally, I never saw myself having a good work/life balance until later in life - I came to this conclusion in my early twenties. I figured that as I was not born with the proverbial silver spoon in my mouth I'd just have to get stuck in, work hard and eventually achieve what I wanted in life. Which I did.

I never subscribed to finishing 'on the dot', if tasks need completing they need completing, period. Despite being efficient and smart at organising teams sometimes you just have to put the job first, often for long periods of time. It is only recently since I turned my corporate life off that I have worked anything less than about 60 hours a week. As the MD of a reasonable sized company I pretty much worked 24/7 for 5 years. Personal opinion and choice for sure.

Paid off for me. I semi-retired a while back in my late 40's, have a lovely house, precisely zero debt of any kind, couple of early pensions etc. I don't think I had great good fortune along the way, I am reasonably bright with an ok degree but what really made the difference was my love of all the stepping stones in my career, a target to aim for and an enthusiasm for getting stuck in.

@OP - maybe take a risk and throw all your cards in the air and try something totally different? I did this a few times, and put everything on the line and it paid off handsomely. You do need to be confident of your own abilities and have the mental strength to cope with this though.

Funny thing business, as a general rule everyone I know who has done ok for themselves in their careers is/was a grafter. They are also risk takers. Graft and risk cuts it in my book.

tim_wand

How Bloody Ironic, Friday 13th,

Decide to bike into work for the first time since my Xmas hiatus, I m in a real posititive mood, thinking right lets get back on it, quit the feeling sorry for myself and make the most of the situation.

Gets in , Gets suspended due to an allegation one of the kids has made against me.

Maybe this is the kick up the arse I need to make a change.

jim453

What are you alleged to have done?

I thought the onus was now on individuals to prove you had done wrong and not for you to prove you had not, hence remaining at work during investigation.

An unsubstantiated allegation from a child is not enough for you to be suspended from work, is it?

ddraver

If you work with children, I fear it is. Must protect the children from the peado hiding in every shady corner now musnt we...

Sorry to hear it tim, hope its sorted out painlessly...

nweststeyn

Yeah, hope it's resolved quickly and professionally.

On the topic of work/life balance - I'm contracted 40 hours a week at my job in a concert hall. On top of that I tend to do another 10 as overtime. I don't much enjoy the job and do not like having to give up my time for it.

Strangely, I wanted to have faith in 'work', so I took on another part time post running the repairs department at my local music store - I've been a guitar tech for 8 years now but have only been based in the shop for 1. I've been working 6 or 7 day weeks, and hate the lack of time I have to myself BUT my time spent in the workshop is golden and I really enjoy it. It's taught me a valuable lesson and I'm now speaking with my manager at the concert hall to see about cutting down to a 3 day week and working in the workshop for another 2. 5 days a week, 2 of which I enjoy, seems much more positive. And it'll give me a little time to ride!

I'm planning on selling my car, moving to a cheaper house and cutting lots of other costs just in an attempt to get some of my personal time back and spend it with my better half (who has recently taken an interest in cycling!).

tim_wand

As stated by ddraver, safe gaurding and child protection must always come first I accept that no matter how maliscious the allegation the employer must investigate.

I would have prefered the word Paedo not to have been used in the example though.

can't and won't go into detail , suffice to say regretfully its par for the course in this nature of work.

tlw1

tim wand wrote:

As stated by ddraver, safe gaurding and child protection must always come first I accept that no matter how maliscious the allegation the employer must investigate.

I would have prefered the word Paedo not to have been used in the example though.

can't and won't go into detail , suffice to say regretfully its par for the course in this nature of work.

You have got to expect this if you turn up for work in Lycra....... Joking aside, this is the kick up the arse you need to change the situation and restore the balance in your life

pliptrot

Discussions such as this always bring people out of their holes to tell us just how good they are and that to stop the world imploding they worked 24/7 or 80 hours a week or whatever trophy figure they need. There is a great deal of research which proves conclusively that working anything much above 40 hours a week is time wasted; people become stale and unproductive.

Worth thinking about, I think, when someone is lecturing you on the need for overtime, and how they didn't get where they are today by working reasonable hours.

In the US the macho culture of time at work is more widespread than here, and the argument that this may play some part in the moribund nature of US industry holds some water.

There, as here, though, you don't have to go far to find someone who changed the world and whose success is entirely their own, through a combination of superior ability and the workshy around them who had other priorities. Luck, of course, never played a part.

I am not sure how these dullards would handle Germany, people there being lazy and focused on hours set according to the Working Time Directive (which they are not allowed to opt out of as a formality). We can see how short weeks, long holidays and those wretched benefits like employment protection and paternal leave are damaging Germany.

The proletariat, (no, we are not all middle class) have always been instruments of others' success and it is distressing to see how those who enjoy that success have no understanding of lives outside theirs. Meritocracy becomes a strangely ambiguous word.

For those who are struggling with poor jobs, poor pay, poor conditions and poor treatment, and wasting time in things of little interest, I hope the times are changing. We should demand that they do.

mrc1

http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679111/the-case-for-a-21-hour-work-week

This is pretty interesting although i doubt it would work in practice unless people were ultra disciplined - ie no Facebook, Bikeradar etc etc.

rick_chasey

mrc1 wrote:

http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679111/the-case-for-a-21-hour-work-week

This is pretty interesting although i doubt it would work in practice unless people were ultra disciplined - ie no Facebook, Bikeradar etc etc.

Your place sounded pretty extreme where you were!...

Pross

Got bored reading this. Has anyone pointed out the irony of people spending their time on an internet forum and then moaning about having to work on in the evening yet?

I do it when I have to but in one of our other offices it has reached the point where people feel they have to do an extra hour or two a day to avoid looking lazy. Part of the problem is that the bosses are out and about all day and then come in with urgent work they insist has to be done which to me is poor management. On the other hand I occassionally work late and then go home and work into the small hours (very rarely) as we get a project that has to be delivered by a set date or our Client loses hundreds of thousands per day. In those circumstances I see it as part of the job and believe my salary reflects the work. I also regularly have to leave early in the mornings to get to meetings around the country, I can end up driving for more than my official working day with the length of the meeting on top but again it goes with the territory. I like to think that if I had my time again I would take a job I loved for less money in order to get the balance right but I suspect I'd fall into the money trap again!

mrc1

Rick Chasey wrote:

mrc1 wrote:

http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679111/the-case-for-a-21-hour-work-week

This is pretty interesting although i doubt it would work in practice unless people were ultra disciplined - ie no Facebook, Bikeradar etc etc.

Your place sounded pretty extreme where you were!...

Yep and for 90% of the time it was totally ridiculous. Setting of artificial deadlines, face time becoming the norm, agreeing to stupid timetables to get work etc etc. The main issue though is industry wide - understaffing to increase profitability and the obsession with billable hours.

nax-ian

I think I found that work/life balance thing. Left the UK in '88 to go an work "somewhere" in Greece. Stop laughing y'all it's not as bad as the media makes it out to be. Have now owned my own restaurant for the past 12 years, which is open for 5 an half months, the rest of the year I/we (wifey) dont work!
This life is up for grabs if someone is willing to take the risk, as already mentioned by Nickinthelakes - risk and graft.
Any budding chef/restauranteur cyclists out there get in touch.
Sorry for this being such a blatant advert for me trying to sell our place. But it's time for us to move on and try something new.
Oh, an many thanks to you guys who responded to my Mallorca thread

Gizmodo

Nax-ian wrote:

...work "somewhere" in Greece. Stop laughing y'all it's not as bad as the media makes it out to be... it's time for us to move on and try something new.

Just a coincidence then

secretsqizz

Someone thinks we come up the Liffey in a bubble , me 'ol drachma

verylonglegs

You don't need to tell us people only work half of the year in Greece, it's been plastered all over the feckin news for months!

markos1963

Hmmn work life balance. Well it all depends on prorities as to how it works best for you. In my case I was a retail area manager when my lad was young. I was on the road before he was awake and home after he was asleep. I worked out my hourly pay and it was worse than the saturday staff i was employing! Something had to change, I didn't want to miss my son growing up or not have any influence over his upbringing.
I applied to join the railway as a trainee driver, my starting pay was only one third of my old salary and we had to use savings and credit cards to survive. The hours seemed crazy with earlies, lates and nights all over the place but it has been brilliant. I'm either at home in the mornings or the evenings so I get to see my son loads. I believe it has had a major effect on the family, my son has done really well at school and is a well balanced lad who gets the attention he needs.
What I'm trying to say is look outside the box if you are thinking of a career change. I came across my job by accident and wouldn't have thought it would have helped us out of the situation but it has. Not only do I have time for my family but plenty of time all year round for cycling, result!!!