Work Life balance.

tim_wand

Am I asking too much? Am I going through a mid life crisis ( just turned 41) should I be grateful to have a job at all.

Two years ago through no fault of my own I lost a good public sector job I d been doing for twelve years ( this may be the problem that I got too used to the easy life)

Ever since I ve worked in the private sector in a role that basically means being a surrogate parent to kids in care outside of school hours.

I work a two week cycle which basically incorporates one week were I only work a couple of evenings and another week were I m basically there 24/7.

On the "long week" I get about 3 hours face to face time with the Mrs (Lovely lass I adore her) , shes got a job as a retail manager, on the short week its a bit better but I spend my days off looking after our 3 year old daughter to cut down on childcare costs. We have no other support than the nursery because both our parents are dead.

When I m not working the Mrs Is, and when I m not looking after our daughter she is, we just dovetail in with one another and seem to pass like ships in the night.

I spend all my working life looking after kids and all my down time looking after my own , I m a big advocate of no one twists your arm to do anything and if your not happy then the responsibility to put it right is yours and yours alone.

But is it just me, but there just does not seem to be a job out there which isnt just total anti-social hours which destroys any hope of a family life.

At the moment my daughters only 3 and having time off (on one week) during the week suits, but when she starts school this year I m going to get about the same 3 hours a week face time with her I currently get with the Mrs.

Should I be grateful to have a job at all? or is it fair to not accept only being able to spend 3 hours a week quality time with your loved ones in order to give them a descent standard of living.

I ve looked at jobs like teaching assistant and will be doing additional training through the OU to hopefully qualify to apply for a teacher training course in the future, but all the work out there in that area is only part time or temporary.

As anyone else been in a similar rut and found a way out, Or can someone just shut me up , put this into prespective or humble me and say I should just be counting my blessings to have a job, a beautiful wife and daughter .

LeicesterLad

I feel for you, i really do. I moan about work all the time, I frankly hate my job, and i find Sunday nights almost unbearably depressing, but looking at your circumstances, my job is nowhere near as bad as that. I don't think its a case of being greatful to have a job, get fed up of people telling me 'at least you have a job' blah blah, yes i have a job, but it doesn't mean i have to like it, or feel fulfilled by it, its a means to an end. I find myself at work every single day thinking jesus there must be more to life than this, but in the current state of affirs, there is just no decent jobs, and no light at the end of the tunnel.

Your situation is tough, you need the job to support your family, but the job takes away the time you should be spending with them. Its a hard one to weigh up, but you should try your best to get out and try something new before you get stuck in such a rut that in 5/10/20 years time you look back and think. 'WTF, i missed my child grow up' even down to the more menial 'WTF, i havn't done anything remotely exciting'. Ive found with my job, the longer i stay there, the harder it is to motivate myself to be arsed into looking for other jobs/means of living/lengthy excursions/new life.

dizzyblonde82

It is really hard to get a good balance, my husband was a kitchen manager working an average 60 hrs per week including every Sat and Sunday usually getting home after 11pm each night, I worked 9-5 Mon to Friday so we hardly saw each other.

When we did spend time together we just argued and things got worse when our 5yr son was diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder, all the advice was to spend more family time together.

So in the end about 7 months ago my husband found a new job and dropped back to being a chef, he works most Saturdays & Sundays but is home by 6pm on a weekend and 7pm weekdays. I also cut my hours and now work 9-3pm. All I think now is why didn't we do it sooner - we took an income drop but it is amazing where you waste money and can cut back.

Good luck with the OU I am currently studying a degree in Mathematics and Statistics with the OU and really enjoying it

tlw1

Work life balance is always hard, but throwing study in can be a killer.

I work in an office and am out of the house for circa 60hrs a week, then studying an MBA with the ou adds 14hrs a week. Thankfully the family are supportive and to ensure time with the kids i don't leave home till 6.45 to ensure we always have breakfast 'club' together (they are 4 & 7 - so normally awake). For me I have had to knock cycling down a lot and manage one night or run a couple of times a week to clear my head/stop getting fatter.

I find with time short with them I ensure it's quality time - so far this is keeping everyone relatively happy

tim_wand

Dizzyblonde82, thanks for affirming what I feel. Its a matter of priorities and spending time with the family and building my relationship with the wife should come first.

I work predominantley with young people who are on the autism spectrum and are not as fortunate as your child to have the support of their parents, But you are 100% right that the benefits of spending time with people they love and trust are immeasureable to both parent and child.

This is half of the problem , I would hate to break away from the relationships I have formed with the young people in my care and feel extremely guilty to let them down.

There is a supposition in the care industry that there is no such thing as contracted hours or a working day and personally I accept this , until I see the massive amounts of money my (Private) organisation makes in provisioning this care.

At the end of the day, its the child that matters most, whether it by my own or the one in my care and thats priceless.

With regards to the extended study I'm in a better positon than most as I was able to transfer 240 CAT points for accredited prior learning into my OU course so I only have to get another 120 points (About a years work) to get the qualification I need to apply for teacher training.

GiantMike

I have gone for the completely selfish option of not having children. Not so much a work:life balance decision as a 'I want to live my life' decision. I work away during the week but I have great weekends with my wife and we never argue. Had we decided to have kids our lives would have been completely different and I'm not regretting the decision one bit.

I'm just hitting my mid-life crisis too. I had worked hard to get a degree and a Masters, qualify for a good job and got moved around every 2-3 years. Recently I found out a that somebody I was once very close to died of a horrible cancer a couple of years ago. It really really shook me and made me realise just how short life is. Since then I have changed my attitude to life and I'm now trying as hard as possible to have as much fun as I can while I still can. So it's healthy food, little drinking, loads of exercise and as much quality home time as possible for me from now on. Sad as the situation was, it's given me a new focus to my life.

I hope this doesn't sound smug. I realise how lucky I am.

roryboy

Aye: Difficult one but at least you're aware of your situation, a lot of people out there are on the treadmill and dont realise it. problem being theres not enough choice in jobs now.
I hope you work it out as this is not rehearsals, we only get one crack at this life. Good luck.

tim_wand

Lost both my parents in the space of 10 days of one another last year, My mum had been diagonosed and fighting lung cancer for over a year, my Dad was diagnosed with the same and died within 10 days of being diagnosed in the same hospital my mum was receiving treatment in and subsequently died in the following week.

I understand the urgency of life, and dont want any regrets, and know they come from the things we havent done rather than the ones we have.

I was 38 before I became a Father myself. The main reason for that was that I didnt want the decisions I made in life to have too great an impact on anyone but myself.

Like it or not being a parent removes that luxury and demands certain responsibilities from you, and I dont regret that one bit because the pay back is immense.

I respect you for consciously recognising that considerations in your life would be different if you had kids and I will try and not hit you with the cliche " You dont know what your missing" (But you dont)

My one and only Pinarello (Sits on the Mrs hand in form of a diamond) and every time I think that I might just love another one, I look at my little girl and thank the lord the day I discovered planet X and the satisfaction of building my own frames.

Like I say I respect the descion you have made and wish you well, But IME life is the stuff that happens whilst you are making plans.

ddraver

It is a question of priorities, nothing more. That said, it's not always an easy choice to make and it is easy to get used to being paid well and hard to choose less money in exchange for something much less tangible than "time"

I'm younger that you guys but I was having this discussion over Xmas with my Sister. She claimed that she would rather have less holidays if she could leave on time. I said that leaving on time is entirely one's own choice. If you have screwed up a bit then it's fair enough to stay a bit later to tidy up after yourself but if managers are expecting you to work unpaid overtime, to the point where they are budgeting it in to projects as they were with before I moved jobs, then that simply is not fair. People working over time is not the sign of a strong company, it is the sign of a badly managed one!

I came out of one project where I had been put under immense pressure because the project had been so poorly managed and was working 3hrs (unpaid) over time every day for 8 months. I nearly lost some close friends, had no life whatsoever, had put on nearly 15kg, gained an eating disorder and was paying a counsellor GBP40 a week to keep me sane. That simply was not acceptable to me and I told my manager so!

That said, I'm young and single (not my preference but I may as well make the most of it) and moving abroad to a new job and new country was (relatively) easy! But I made a decision in my head, whatever the cost to my work life, that I am never doing that to myself again!

tim_wand

Fair play DD raver. Sorry to hear you had to go through so much shit to reach enlightenment.

I think I read somewhere last week that UK business benefits to the tune of nearly £39 million (May have even been billion) worth of un paid overtime from workers each year.

I think in the current economy we are all fearful of losing our jobs and the employer holds the whip hand.

I know in my current employment there is a definite culture of "Presentism" I accept it because ultimately its the kids in our care that benefit. But i ve all but had it admitted to me that although I m extremely competentant at what I do, I wont get promotion because they doubt my commitment.

I accept that but it basically equates to the statement that unless I m willing to sacrifice my family life then I wont progress.

nunowoolmez

Hmmm. Work life balance. This was an actual radio transmission on our airwaves at work (Met Police) recently after yet another ridiculously long shift.

Police operator: Thanks for all your hard work, you can all go home to your families now.
Response from an officer: We don't have families, we only have work, we don't have lives.

Very funny & made us all laugh, but he said what we were all thinking...

Roll on the Olympics...

tim_wand

I think certain professions , yours included " nunowoolmez there is this expectation that its a vocation and a public service, therefore you should feel very humble and accepting about giving your time.

(I used to be a prison officer) and to a degree I think , Nurses, Firemen, Police Officers, Doctors e.t.c buy in to that and the Government milk it for all its worth.

I m not saying its right (quiet the opposite), but I work for a private organisation which profits from Young People who have basically been abandoned by their parents, and charges local authorities circa £150k a year to cover the void and yet still trades on that sense of duty from their staff.

And do you know what it works, because ultimately I feel that its those kids I m letting down if I dont go beyond the call of duty.

finchy

What do you intend to teach? You have to be very careful, teaching is a massively time-consuming profession and these days many teachers are finding it hard to find work. My wife's a qualified teacher, but can only find work as a TA. Some of her colleagues are at her school doing cover work, and have been doing that for about 3 years since they qualified.

Basically, the numbers of teachers in training reflect pre-recession needs, when loads of teachers stayed in the job for a couple of years before leaving. Now that option isn't really open to them, far more are staying in.

If you can speak a foreign language or teach maths or physics, you stand a good chance of getting a teaching job. If you can't, then think very carefully about the path you choose.

tim_wand

My initial "Ordinary degree" hence the need to go back to OU and transfer points to make a better degree for applying for GTP or PGCE was in Fitness and Health.

I would like to teach primary (Non specialist) and I ll be honest I m looking to play the numbers game of primary education not being over subscribed with men.

In my defence thought I have been doing half a day a week voluntary in a primary school and despite initially choosing this route because of the gender positive discrimination I actually like the idea of teaching children and not subjects ( i,e not specialising).

I applied for GTP this year but my degree classification is not good enough , hence the choice of going through the OU.

I do cover work too, but as I am trying to achieve a better life balance as originally posted , I need to strike a balance which is going to allow me to proceed.

finchy

OK, well good luck with that, although I don't think that being a male will help, being able to take them for PE might.

rick_chasey

ddraver wrote:

It is a question of priorities, nothing more. That said, it's not always an easy choice to make and it is easy to get used to being paid well and hard to choose less money in exchange for something much less tangible than "time"

I'm younger that you guys but I was having this discussion over Xmas with my Sister. She claimed that she would rather have less holidays if she could leave on time. I said that leaving on time is entirely one's own choice. If you have screwed up a bit then it's fair enough to stay a bit later to tidy up after yourself but if managers are expecting you to work unpaid overtime, to the point where they are budgeting it in to projects as they were with before I moved jobs, then that simply is not fair. People working over time is not the sign of a strong company, it is the sign of a badly managed one!
!

S'not really how it works. A lot of jobs have the stated hours per week minimum, but have a clause that, rightly, says "you will have to do more hours if the job requries".

If I left the office on time every day I'd get sacked because I wouldn't be doing what was required in my job.

Same with loads of jobs.

Frank the tank

To the OP, you've committed the crime of being born working class,and it's a life sentence.

People can offer advice and give examples of their own experience but only you and your partner will be able to make the real changes, which are (in these particular times) easier said than done.

My eldest has aspergers and my wife was a full time carer for him as he grew up, mine was the only proper wage coming in and so I spent far too much time at work when the overtime was there 12hr shifts 7 days a week for months sometimes, other times not so intense. Then there would be months of no OT at all. The money was required and I sacrificed my time to provide, my wife looked after our two children in some respects almost single handed. We had our "face-offs" periodically but we're still together and our children have grown into well balanced young adults who are making their own very different ways in the world.

We on here know you're finding it tough, I'm sure we all have in the past but (and PLEASE DON'T TAKE ME WRONG) the impotant thing is the raising of the child and you and your partner must do the right thing and if that means work/life balance is a bit sh1t, I refer you to the first line of my reply. I do sincereley wish you all the best, stick at it (both of you) and the reward for your endevour will be great.

tim_wand

Cheers Frank, and big respect, I know my situation is nothing new or unique, I was just having a bit of a cathartic rant.

Nothing or no one comes before my Wife and Kid, I just get a bit peaved off at times at working for an organisation which expects me to sacrifice all my time with my family to look after kids who have been abandoned by theirs.

I dont begrudge any of the kids in my time a single second (none of their situations is their fault) but I do get angry at the amount of money our directors make, whilst giving us a budget of £60 a weekend to entertain 30 or more kids.

At the moment my little one is at an age were she doesnt comprehend my abscence, but I m not looking forward to when she does and I have to explain that I m spending all my time looking after other children who's Mums and Dads havent put in the sort of dedication you and your wife did , or I d like to.

ddraver

Rick Chasey wrote:

ddraver wrote:

It is a question of priorities, nothing more. That said, it's not always an easy choice to make and it is easy to get used to being paid well and hard to choose less money in exchange for something much less tangible than "time"

I'm younger that you guys but I was having this discussion over Xmas with my Sister. She claimed that she would rather have less holidays if she could leave on time. I said that leaving on time is entirely one's own choice. If you have screwed up a bit then it's fair enough to stay a bit later to tidy up after yourself but if managers are expecting you to work unpaid overtime, to the point where they are budgeting it in to projects as they were with before I moved jobs, then that simply is not fair. People working over time is not the sign of a strong company, it is the sign of a badly managed one!
!

S'not really how it works. A lot of jobs have the stated hours per week minimum, but have a clause that, rightly, says "you will have to do more hours if the job requries".

If I left the office on time every day I'd get sacked because I wouldn't be doing what was required in my job.

Same with loads of jobs.

I disagree, only if you re a sucker There comes a point where you have to stand up for yourself and say that you re not letting them pay you for 40hrs and expecting you to work 60. It may require a new job, which may take a few years to find, but the choice is still yours. (take solace in the fact that it is incredibly hard to sack someone for "not really doing a good enough job" they need to find something specific. They certainly can't do it if you re working your contracted hours to a good standard but leaving on time to see your friends/family/bicycle)

Do you live to work or work to live?

GiantMike

ddraver wrote:

take solace in the fact that it is incredibly hard to sack someone for "not really doing a good enough job" they need to find something specific.

Not in the first year of employment (and under planned changes not within the first 2 years).

ddraver

Well if they re forcing it on you then you look somewhere else who appreciate your skills more....still your choice!

rick_chasey

ddraver wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

ddraver wrote:

It is a question of priorities, nothing more. That said, it's not always an easy choice to make and it is easy to get used to being paid well and hard to choose less money in exchange for something much less tangible than "time"

I'm younger that you guys but I was having this discussion over Xmas with my Sister. She claimed that she would rather have less holidays if she could leave on time. I said that leaving on time is entirely one's own choice. If you have screwed up a bit then it's fair enough to stay a bit later to tidy up after yourself but if managers are expecting you to work unpaid overtime, to the point where they are budgeting it in to projects as they were with before I moved jobs, then that simply is not fair. People working over time is not the sign of a strong company, it is the sign of a badly managed one!
!

S'not really how it works. A lot of jobs have the stated hours per week minimum, but have a clause that, rightly, says "you will have to do more hours if the job requries".

If I left the office on time every day I'd get sacked because I wouldn't be doing what was required in my job.

Same with loads of jobs.

I disagree, only if you re a sucker There comes a point where you have to stand up for yourself and say that you re not letting them pay you for 40hrs and expecting you to work 60. It may require a new job, which may take a few years to find, but the choice is still yours. (take solace in the fact that it is incredibly hard to sack someone for "not really doing a good enough job" they need to find something specific. They certainly can't do it if you re working your contracted hours to a good standard but leaving on time to see your friends/family/bicycle)

Do you live to work or work to live?

Not really.

Relatives have had to sack people because they stuck to their 'hours', rather than doing the job. Clients weren't happy, etc etc.

If I only worked my hours, I wouldn't be able to meet what is required. In my case, we have strict office hours, but I have to call a lot of people in the evening. If I refused, it'd be pointless having me there.

I know teachers have similar. If they only worked their hours the lessons would be rubbish.

You're not a sucker. It's just the job you take on.

tim_wand

Prime example, My LBS gets my business because they go above and beyond; if they didnt I d take my business elsewhere, same with work, if you dont do it some other bloke will.

When I worked for the prison service I was a trade union official, one of our biggest arguments with members was that they would continually work over time and thus the management never had to recruit and retain the correct number of staff for the profile of the work.

I stopped arguing the point when one day a guy stood up in the middle of a branch meeting, took out his wallet and said "This is the loudest voice in the room".

If you buy in and accept that then you have no complaint, and in the majority of cases we all have responsibilities which go beyond ourselves and therefore dont have the luxury to avoid that paradox.

I m not bemoaning my position, I was just wondering if anyone had found some creative and reasonable ways forward from it.

ddraver

Well, is the money more important than time with your kids?

For the. Above, note that I'm not saying be inflexible or lazy, or just refuse to do the work (present an alternative or a way of working more efficiently), but if they're budgeting project on 50hrs a week and paying you for 40... Personally I say no!

il_principe

Rick Chasey wrote:

ddraver wrote:

It is a question of priorities, nothing more. That said, it's not always an easy choice to make and it is easy to get used to being paid well and hard to choose less money in exchange for something much less tangible than "time"

I'm younger that you guys but I was having this discussion over Xmas with my Sister. She claimed that she would rather have less holidays if she could leave on time. I said that leaving on time is entirely one's own choice. If you have screwed up a bit then it's fair enough to stay a bit later to tidy up after yourself but if managers are expecting you to work unpaid overtime, to the point where they are budgeting it in to projects as they were with before I moved jobs, then that simply is not fair. People working over time is not the sign of a strong company, it is the sign of a badly managed one!
!

S'not really how it works. A lot of jobs have the stated hours per week minimum, but have a clause that, rightly, says "you will have to do more hours if the job requries".

If I left the office on time every day I'd get sacked because I wouldn't be doing what was required in my job.

Same with loads of jobs.

Really? I thought your office spent most of their time f*cking about?

I leave on time almost every day. If I need to work longer I do but this rarely happens (last year because things at the new job were quiet I never had to leave late) but usually because I manage my time and last 2 jobs have been with small businesses that appreciate work/life balance. At the new job the MD does not care when you get in or leave as long as your work is done. A friend of mine works late every night. He doesn't need to but that's the culture and his appalling time management. It's a culture that seems weirdly prevalent in London. I'm sure that many people who work long hours earn a lot of money, but I'd rather have less money and more of my own time.

F*ck doing more work than I'm paid for, I love my life outside of work and am not prepared to spend a minute longer behind my desk that I have to.

Can't wait to escape London anyway.

rick_chasey

Il Principe wrote:

Really? I thought your office spent most of their time f*cking about?

They do. But you try getting a trader to speak to you as a headhunter on the phone during the day.

Won't happen.

il_principe

So why not let people get in later work later then?

rick_chasey

Il Principe wrote:

So why not let people get in later work later then?

*shrugs* I'm the junior.

When we have work, we're pretty busy.

October - December, especially in the worst time for financial services recruitment anyone can remember, were dead quiet.

We're getting busy now. I have enough to keep me going for most of the day, and then do 2hrs or so of calls in the evening, after dinner.

rick_chasey

I don't envisage ever wanting a job where it matters to me so little I'd bolt out the door at 5pm or whenever.

You do it all day, so why not do it well?

My father regularly was away for 3-4 weeks at a time, worked all evenings apart from Fri-Sat at home and it was fine.

If anything, I'd quite like to be able to get so stuck in that you can spend 10-12hrs a day doing it. Would make me feel good about myself.

There's always time to do other stuff. If you look one's life, there's so much that's wasted scratching your arse or watching a friends re-run you've seen 6 times because you CBA.

A job that I cared about and would work hard at that would get rid of that and be productive.

il_principe

Rick Chasey wrote:

I don't envisage ever wanting a job where it matters to me so little I'd bolt out the door at 5pm or whenever.

You do it all day, so why not do it well?

Since when did "leaving on time" = not doing your job well, or it not mattering? This is exactly the cultural problem that I'm talking about.

You wanna work all day then spend 2 hours making calls after your dinner, fine, but IMHO that's a little nuts. I'd rather spend those 2 hours with my wife, or start work later in the day and work later.

ddraver

AS above, I could whore myself to a bank doing a boring job I hate, but which pays more cash (which is my sisters raison d'etre) but I'd far rather be paid less and enjoy my time playing with my rocks...

That said, when someone is taking the p1ss (as my past employers clearly were with that particular project, it was nt like that all the time), "I aint the kinda pussy to drink it"