Ed Miliband - great politician, terrible leader.

spen666

DDD, I'd say your view was not in accordance with mine

rjsterry

DonDaddyD wrote:

I'd say Ed is a great politician as he does take Cameron to task during the questions. He did a stella job as Environmental Minister and he is intelligent.

I stand by my belief that of the bunch he is the most genuine.

I would rather vote for Chuka.

Teehee. A stellar job would be a very good job. A stella job sounds like the sort of job you'd do after 8 pints of lager.

SimonAH

This is going to make me as popular as a skunk in a beauty salon, but I'm glad he's unelectable.

In a period as rocky as this we need the stability of a back to back term regardless of the party in power.

The last thing we need is a period of undoing everything 'the last lot' did at the start of a new term. Also in a second term it gets harder to blame all your woes on your predecessors.

tailwindhome

SimonAH wrote:

In a period as rocky as this we need the stability of a back to back term regardless of the party in power.

That was basically Gordon's election strategy....it nearly worked to.

rjsterry wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

He did a stella job as Environmental Minister.

A stellar job would be a very good job. A stella job sounds like the sort of job you'd do after 8 pints of lager.

No Stella.....Works in the Environment Ministery.....

rick_chasey

He doesn't come across in pictures always that well.

DrLex

Rick Chasey wrote:

He doesn't come across in pictures always that well.

Here's another one that made me chuckle

The Rookie

I wish Diane Abbott had won the leadership contest
1/ Good or bad I at least respect her for saying what she thinks (Tweets included).
2/ I don't want that Fricking shower back in any time soon and she is, for right or wrong, unelectable as PM.

New labour, Old spending habits, think Labour of the 60/70's and you have the same spending habits as that of the noughties, they just glossed it up better this time and fooled more of the people more of the time, good riddance and to be honest to become credable they need a leader who was not a seniour member of Bliar or Browns government as they were all in it up to their necks - spending our money to try and get elected for their own ends.

Simon

rick_chasey

DrLex wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

He doesn't come across in pictures always that well.

Here's another one that made me chuckle

Face like a rubber mask.

TheStone

The Beginner wrote:

I wish Diane Abbott had won the leadership contest

Lost respect for Abbott when she paraded her son, making him tell the press it was his choice to go to private school!

Ed comes across weak.
He's not helped by the shambles of a front bench left from the Blair/Brown era.

He's also not helped by the fact he has to argue against things that the ConLibs are doing, despite the fact that they all promised to do much the same thing.

And also not helped by the mess the country's in. Although you can blame external factors (to an extent) and can argue that the Tories would have done the same or worse .... it still happened on their watch.

Ed Balls is evil. Pure 100% idiot evil.

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

DrLex wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

He doesn't come across in pictures always that well.

Here's another one that made me chuckle

Face like a rubber mask.

÷I think you'll find it's a condom full of minced ham.

rick_chasey

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

DrLex wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

He doesn't come across in pictures always that well.

Here's another one that made me chuckle

Face like a rubber mask.

÷I think you'll find it's a condom full of minced ham.

??

DonDaddyD

So I think we can categorically determine that Bikeradar and by extension both the cycling community and the Internet doesn't like, admire or respect Ed Miliband as a politician or a Leader of a Political Party.

Reasons range from 'possible virgin' right through to 'doesn't seem to stand for anything policy wise.

Tory Government in from now on then.

il_principe

DonDaddyD wrote:

So I think we can categorically determine that Bikeradar and by extension both the cycling community and the Internet doesn't like, admire or respect Ed Miliband as a politician or a Leader of a Political Party.

Reasons range from 'possible to virgin' right through to 'doesn't seem to stand for anything policy wise.

Tory Government in from now on then.

No one respects Milibland, not even his shadow cabinet (remember the unions elected him). It'll be another Tory Gov if he stays as leader.

rick_chasey

Il Principe wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

So I think we can categorically determine that Bikeradar and by extension both the cycling community and the Internet doesn't like, admire or respect Ed Miliband as a politician or a Leader of a Political Party.

Reasons range from 'possible to virgin' right through to 'doesn't seem to stand for anything policy wise.

Tory Government in from now on then.

No one respects Milibland, not even his shadow cabinet (remember the unions elected him). It'll be another Tory Gov if he stays as leader.

He was still near the bottom of their list - he just happened to be above his brother!!

CiB

Ed Milliband is surely there for the same reason that Major was installed post-Thatcher (or Fatch as some would have it). His job is to lose the next election. Whilst the Tories work their way through the massive and unpopular cuts that have to be made, after losing the 2015 election Johny Lefty votes in a sparkly new leader to win in 2019 and take full credit for leading Britain (minus the Scots hopefully by then) into the new world where recession, cuts & govt debt are a thing of the past and England win the World Cup, the Eurovision Song Contest and the race to Mars all in one go.

Fly in the ointment 1) Major cocked up big time and won in 92, after Kinnock's majestic performance in Sheffield (ha!!!!);
Fly in the ointment 2) Labour need to find Blair II PDQ or the masterplan goes up in smoke.

Milliband eh? What a chuffing waste of space. I wonder how much of this was sorted out when he won - "pssst David; Ed's gonna win this one - this is no time to be leader. Wait your turn..."

DonDaddyD

Fly in the ointment 2) Labour need to find Blair II PDQ or the masterplan goes up in smoke.

Urm... this guy:



Chuka Umanna

Best and fastest growing (profile wise) politician in Labour's arsenal. I don't think the Tory's have an emerging star like this guy at the moment. Though Louise Mensch is becoming more mention worthy.

jonginge

Rick Chasey wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

So I think we can categorically determine that Bikeradar and by extension both the cycling community and the Internet doesn't like, admire or respect Ed Miliband as a politician or a Leader of a Political Party.

Reasons range from 'possible to virgin' right through to 'doesn't seem to stand for anything policy wise.

Tory Government in from now on then.

No one respects Milibland, not even his shadow cabinet (remember the unions elected him). It'll be another Tory Gov if he stays as leader.

He was still near the bottom of their list - he just happened to be above his brother!!

Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Par ... tion,_2010

rjsterry

DonDaddyD wrote:

Fly in the ointment 2) Labour need to find Blair II PDQ or the masterplan goes up in smoke.

Urm... this guy:



Chuka Umanna

Best and fastest growing (profile wise) politician in Labour's arsenal. I don't think the Tory's have an emerging star like this guy at the moment. Though Louise Mensch is becoming more mention worthy.

Well, she likes to get in the papers... and then moan about being in the papers too much. An attention seeker of the worst kind.

rick_chasey

CiB wrote:

Ed Milliband is surely there for the same reason that Major was installed post-Thatcher (or Fatch as some would have it). His job is to lose the next election. Whilst the Tories work their way through the massive and unpopular cuts that have to be made, after losing the 2015 election Johny Lefty votes in a sparkly new leader to win in 2019 and take full credit for leading Britain (minus the Scots hopefully by then) into the new world where recession, cuts & govt debt are a thing of the past and England win the World Cup, the Eurovision Song Contest and the race to Mars all in one go.

Fly in the ointment 1) Major cocked up big time and won in 92, after Kinnock's majestic performance in Sheffield (ha!!!!);
Fly in the ointment 2) Labour need to find Blair II PDQ or the masterplan goes up in smoke.

Milliband eh? What a chuffing waste of space. I wonder how much of this was sorted out when he won - "pssst David; Ed's gonna win this one - this is no time to be leader. Wait your turn..."

Think you might need to take off your tinfoil hat.

Considering the inevitable post-Blair/Brown era vacuum, the conditions for Labour win are pretty good. Economy tanking, enormous unemployment < both of which are likely to get worse, regardless of what the gov't do.

The catalyst/cause of this was light-touch free-markertism, originally championed by the right and appropriated into New Labour.

The tories couldn't even get a majority after the biggest crash since 1929.

Given all that, you'd think Labour would be feeling bullish.

Miliband, his team and cabinet have not been able to articulate and offer a strong, convincing, alternative to anything. They haven't been able to distance themselves from the party that existed in '08 (even if Darling, post crash, seemed pretty able, sensible, and honest).

It's a crying shame that Labour and the left generally can't do this. It's poor politics on their part.

Cameron isn't great at articulating strong arguments either - this big society bullsh!t being the obvious example. He should have shut-out the last election. The conditions couldn't have been better.

He's better than Miliband because a) he's slicker, b) he's more politically savy/ better advised c) he doesn't have the Blair/Brown legacy burden and d) Miliband is rubbish. The best thing he's done, objectively (for him and his party anyway) was the way he's totally dominated the Lib Dems, and let them take a lot of heat for Tory policies that are divisive and unpopualr (see Tuition fees).

UndercoverElephant

I've always wondered: Is a Milliband the antithesis of a super group?

CiB

DonDaddyD wrote:

Fly in the ointment 2) Labour need to find Blair II PDQ or the masterplan goes up in smoke.

Urm... this guy:



Chuka Umanna

Best and fastest growing (profile wise) politician in Labour's arsenal. I don't think the Tory's have an emerging star like this guy at the moment. Though Louise Mensch is becoming more mention worthy.

Pffft. He's errr... bla.. no, colou... err non-whi... um errr not natural Daily Mail Express material surely?

Is he the coming man then? If he's the one I saw on QT a while back he needs to sharpen his act up a bit. Like I said though, Milliband is there to lose the next election, which might be more difficult than he imagines.

CiB

Rick Chasey wrote:

Think you might need to take off your tinfoil hat.

Considering the inevitable post-Blair/Brown era vacuum, the conditions for Labour win are pretty good. Economy tanking, enormous unemployment < both of which are likely to get worse, regardless of what the gov't do.

The catalyst/cause of this was light-touch free-markertism, originally championed by the right and appropriated into New Labour.

The tories couldn't even get a majority after the biggest crash since 1929.

Given all that, you'd think Labour would be feeling bullish.

Miliband, his team and cabinet have not been able to articulate and offer a strong, convincing, alternative to anything. They haven't been able to distance themselves from the party that existed in '08 (even if Darling, post crash, seemed pretty able, sensible, and honest).

It's a crying shame that Labour and the left generally can't do this. It's poor politics on their part.

Cameron isn't great at articulating strong arguments either - this big society bullsh!t being the obvious example. He should have shut-out the last election. The conditions couldn't have been better.

He's better than Miliband because a) he's slicker, b) he's more politically savy/ better advised c) he doesn't have the Blair/Brown legacy burden and d) Miliband is rubbish. The best thing he's done, objectively (for him and his party anyway) was the way he's totally dominated the Lib Dems, and let them take a lot of heat for Tory policies that are divisive and unpopualr (see Tuition fees).

Oh agreed, Cameron should have strolled the last election and it's a measure his unpopularity within and outside of the party that he didn't. Recall though that by common consent the last election was the one that no-one really wanted to win, bringing as it did the need to be associated with massive debt / cutbacks etc.

rick_chasey

CiB wrote:

Oh agreed, Cameron should have strolled the last election and it's a measure his unpopularity within and outside of the party that he didn't. Recall though that by common consent the last election was the one that no-one really wanted to win, bringing as it did the need to be associated with massive debt / cutbacks etc.

I do not believe any party willingly gives up an opportunity to govern right now.

Even the Lib Dems, who ostensibly were the most 'principled', at the expense of their electability threw it all by the way - side for a chance to have an affect on policy.

After all, what's the point of a political party if it's not to decide how things are governed. You'd even go far as to say it's times like this that it matters, and you join a political party because you have an idea about how things should be done.

jzed

DonDaddyD wrote:

Urm... this guy:



Chuka Umanna

Seems a sensible chap and as an advocate of Blue Labour could be popular. Still Labour though and they can only be trusted to mess things up.

advocates the belief that working class and 'squeezed middle' voters will be won back to Labour through more conservative policies on certain social and international issues, such as immigration and crime, a rejection of neoliberal economics in favour of ideas from guild socialism and continental corporatism, and a switch to local and democratic community management and provision of services, rather than relying on a traditional welfare state that is seen as excessively 'bureaucratic'.

Koncordski

Want to do better in life, vote conservative. Jealous of other people's success, vote labour. Ed is the best thing to happen to the Tory party in the last 20 years, hope they make him 'leader' for life.

I'm off to the pub......enjoy.

rjsterry

"Guild socialism" is that a fancy way of saying closed shop professions?

greg66_tri_v2.0

Rick Chasey wrote:

Considering the inevitable post-Blair/Brown era vacuum, the conditions for Labour win are pretty good. Economy tanking, enormous unemployment < both of which are likely to get worse, regardless of what the gov't do.

I have said previously on here that I think we are headed for a succession of one term administrations, flipping between Labour and Conservative, because there isn't a strong wall of support for either in the electorate, and there isn't a "rallying point" leader of either.

However, as time goes on I'm beginning to question that prediction. The 2010 GE was the one no one really wanted to win, because of the obvious economic reasons and Labour's scorched earth pre-election spending spree. So whoever went into power could look forward to garnering a lot of unpopularity.

But what has really surprised me is how labour in opposition have suffered too. Miliband sits there saying "The Govt shouldn't do this", but has no suggestions for alternatives. I can't say I blame him for that, because there are precious few, and even fewer that are viable ("I'd be fairer with less" is a classic: how?). The way he is running the opposition really serves to underline that the Coalition really has limited alternatives to what it is doing, and we as a country just have to grin and bear it. Impossibly, therefore, the opposition seems to be moderating the opprobrium that would other fall on the Coalition.

Most odd, but keep at it, Ed!

LeicesterLad

Great Politician, terrible leader?
I'm not sure, i think it is wrong, at a time when negotiations are still going on, to comment on this.

In all seriousness, is this thread for real? Ed Miliband? Really?

TheStone

Greg66 wrote:

I have said previously on here that I think we are headed for a succession of one term administrations, flipping between Labour and Conservative, because there isn't a strong wall of support for either in the electorate, and there isn't a "rallying point" leader of either.

Although they try and make a big thing about their differences, Labour and Conservatives are almost identical. People (especially the young) could very quickly dump the main two parties if a credible alternative was available.

I'm not sure our 'democracy' makes this particularly easy. It could even be the LibDems, but not the ones there now. They'll have to leave before the election anyway, so a more radical leader could fill that position as the 'new' LibDems.

rick_chasey

Greg66 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Considering the inevitable post-Blair/Brown era vacuum, the conditions for Labour win are pretty good. Economy tanking, enormous unemployment < both of which are likely to get worse, regardless of what the gov't do.

But what has really surprised me is how labour in opposition have suffered too. Miliband sits there saying "The Govt shouldn't do this", but has no suggestions for alternatives. I can't say I blame him for that, because there are precious few, and even fewer that are viable ("I'd be fairer with less" is a classic: how?). The way he is running the opposition really serves to underline that the Coalition really has limited alternatives to what it is doing, and we as a country just have to grin and bear it. Impossibly, therefore, the opposition seems to be moderating the opprobrium that would other fall on the Coalition.

M

Given the nature of the recession and the cause, there's a strong left-wing case.

The catalyst for this has been too-light-touch free-marketism, especially in finance.

We have the least equal society for almost a century.

The structural causes can also legitimately and reasonably led to elements of Thatcher style deregulation etc.

The left (as opposed to labour) should have been able to articulate a credible alternative argument. Keynsian economics > they can chat about Hoover economics and how that went wrong.

The problem is a) Blair continued a lot what happened before. So Labour must try and genuinely distance themselves from that, in the same way Blair distanced himself from the socialist left.

once they can do that, they need to work on b) properly articulating an alternative argument. They're there. I read about them in the FT so it can't be that hard. They're a little more nuanced, since they approach the economy like an economy rather than pretending it's personal finance so it's a little hard to relate to, but by and large, it's do-able.

Miliband can't do either. Whether that's his fault, or, understandably, after the success of Blair, many don't want to let that go.