Reducing bike weight... what to spend money on ?

amnesia

Hi all,

I have a 2011 Specialized Tarmac Comp (56cm). It's completely standard apart from Michelin Krylion tyres and weighs just over 18lbs inc Speedplays. It's got a full Shimano 105 groupset and Fulcrum Racing 6 wheels (5 hubs and 7 rims).


(I have removed half of the spacers from the stem since the pic was taken)

If you were had (upto) £1k to spend on new lighter bits, what would you get, and why ?

I am guessing wheels have to be top of the list, but the 105 crankset is also heavy too AFAIK... what 'mods' would give the most reduction in weight per £pound ?

ChrisSA

How much do you weigh?

speshsteve

after wheels you are into diminishing returns, have a look at 105 chainset weight vs duraace and you'll be surprised just how little difference there is (I think dura ace shifters over 105 shifters is a bigger saving in weight). You could get decent wheels and mix of dura ace/fsa chainset and ultegra groupset for the rest and carbon cockpit for a total of 1k if you shop around, you might save a 1kg (what I have done but haven't fitted the bits yet as I'm gonna wait for spring so can't say for sure what the saving will be in the real world!)

amnesia

ChrisSA wrote:

How much do you weigh?

LOL - I knew that was coming... I am working on reaching my target weight of 175lbs by the end of March (that's about 1lb a week).

I love cycling and have £1000 to spend on my bike. I am after what will give me the best bang for my buck in terms of weight.

noodleman

Tires and tubes would be pretty good place to start, unless you have already been there.

amnesia

speshsteve wrote:

after wheels you are into diminishing returns, have a look at 105 chainset weight vs duraace and you'll be surprised just how little difference there is (I think dura ace shifters over 105 shifters is a bigger saving in weight). You could get decent wheels and mix of dura ace/fsa chainset and ultegra groupset for the rest and carbon cockpit for a total of 1k if you shop around, you might save a 1kg (what I have done but haven't fitted the bits yet as I'm gonna wait for spring so can't say for sure what the saving will be in the real world!)

I found a list of component weights here - http://www.totalcycling.com/index.php/c ... ights.html
There's practically nothing in the shifters 105 > DA ; half a pound difference between the cranks though.

The Michelin Krylions are only 20g heavier than Pro Race 3s, and I have Specialized lightweight tubes I think.

napoleond

Get some good 2nd hand wheels and start scouring eBay/classifieds for groupset bits.
Although it doesn't make much of a difference in outright performance it's nice having/riding a light bike. It's even nicer when you've been Wiley and spent some effort in upgrading for best vfm.

noodleman

What about your saddle. Could possibly shave 100 grammes if yours is on the heavy side. Stem would be another place to look at.

MattC59

I'd love to help, but I've recently been told off for repeating something which has already been posted.

Wheelspinner

Wheels, by far. See if you can borrow a test set of, say, Mavic Ksyrium SLR, or R-SYS, Fulcrum Racing Zero, or Campag Neutron Ultra and try them. They'll knock off 3-400 grams at least, plus it's the rotating weight of the rims that has the biggest effect relatively. Use them with lighter tyres and tubes, and see how you go.

Beyond that, saving a few grams here and there on lighter shifters or whatever won't affect the "feel" of the ride at all IMO. WIll give you a lower number while it hangs on the scales, but won't make any discernible difference on the road at all. Wheels/tyres will.

Zoomer37

Save around 750g straight away by removing one of those bottles.

It's a slippery and expensive path your on with this.

Lots of fun mind

amnesia

Zoomer37 wrote:

Save around 750g straight away by removing one of those bottles.

It's a slippery and expensive path your on with this.

Lots of fun mind

I've already started riding with a single bottle unless it's a really hot or long ride. We usually stop for a cuppa half way round, so there's always a chance to top up somewhere.

Wheels sounds like my best bet... I fancy some nice, light climbing wheels. The Shimano DuraAce C24s seem to get good reviews and are <1400g I think. Might have a look at them, and the Mavic Ksyrium SLs or similar.

thegibdog

Removing that huge saddlebag and putting everything in your pockets would save you a pound or so off the bike weight...

Wirral_paul

I'd buy a nice set of wheels for about £500 and blow the remainder of the money on a 2nd hand Tacx Fortius virtual reality turbo trainer. I'd say the extra training you're likely to do with the not so mind numbingly boring turbo trainer would benefit you more than a few hundred grammes weight loss

Pru

Don't pee in your drinks bottles, that's weight you could be leaving by the side of the road.

ollyridesfirst

buy a fixie

Mine weighs nothing - 1 brake, no gears etc....great to throw about

alihisgreat

Pru wrote:

Don't pee in your drinks bottles, that's weight you could be leaving by the side of the road.

exactly... spend £1000 on a team car to follow you around.. carrying all your water, food, drink, tools etc. :roll:

racingcondor

Wheels, tyres and tubes are as you know the very obvious starting point.

Beyond that there are few places where you can make big savings (without spending huge amounts). Chainset is an option if you go to something by Rotor and if that fork has an Alu steerer then you could save most of 200g there as well (although you'll lose the nice matching paint job). Brakes from KCNC / Planet X or TRP 970 SL could probably save you 100g and that seat post may be anything up to 100g heavier than it could be as well.

Beyond that you're looking at marginal gains like changing your cable housing for Nokon, bottle cages (don't know if yours are over 20g each but it's a relatively cheap saving), headset and steerer bung, moving away from steel bolts for low stress areas etc.

b16 b3n

Start of with the basics.
Maybe change your cassette to an Ultegra 6700.
Id definitely consider changing your bars and stem. As i know from experience standards are pretty pig Iron.
Change your forks for some lighter ones.
Change your wheels to handbuilts?

b16 b3n

amnesia wrote:

Hi all,

I have a 2011 Specialized Tarmac Comp (56cm). It's completely standard apart from Michelin Krylion tyres and weighs just over 18lbs inc Speedplays. It's got a full Shimano 105 groupset and Fulcrum Racing 6 wheels (5 hubs and 7 rims).


(I have removed half of the spacers from the stem since the pic was taken)

If you were had (upto) £1k to spend on new lighter bits, what would you get, and why ?

I am guessing wheels have to be top of the list, but the 105 crankset is also heavy too AFAIK... what 'mods' would give the most reduction in weight per £pound ?

the chainset is the biggest weight. maybe change it to a Sram force? the other components are pretty light imo

sagalout

Are you wanting super light, or super nice to ride?

I'd spend it on a DA groupset, sell the 105 stuff and put that money towards wheels.

I know people say there isn't that much difference in groupsets from 105 upwards but I disagree. My Madone has a mix of 2011 105 and Ultegra, and my Rourke bike has full 2009 Dura Ace - the Dura Ace, despite being 2 years older, is just noticibly nicer all round, especially in the lightness of the shifting, in particular shifting to the big chain ring, and also the power of the brakes.

Outright weight doesn't make much difference to how a bike feels IMO. The touchpoints and interactions are what matter, although you'll save 1lb in the process I suppose

Ron Stuart

I shall mention a few areas where I see additional weight savings.

1. Shoes, I see guys and gals riding very light frames with heavy MTB shoes. I use light road shoes with Keo's and lightweight cleat covers for the cafe.
2. Boil in the bag jackets usually yellow, traps sweat in base layers and acts like a sponge, also dehydrates you quicker. They are also known for acting as massive air brakes as they get unzipped as the occupant heats up particularly evident in ride where the air temp also rises during the day.
3. Being properly hydrated is a must on rides/events/racing but I have seen riders carrying at least one full 750ml bottle of fluid all the way round a very hilly sportive. This is achieved by having two 750ml bottles as per your picture (nothing wrong with that) but they then arrive at every feed with at least one bottle still full including arriving at the finish. That's the equivalent of my bike frame again being lugged around the whole course.
4. Lightweight but strong wheels are the way to go along with your personal weight loss the rest can wait, spend £500 on the wheels (get some 2011's discount) and the rest well maybe titanium skewers, see what comes with the wheels.
Then maybe something lighter from here.... http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Cate ... 44e33bbe98 but no rush for that, my advice is concentrate on firstly getting your weight down, you will feel the benefits a lot from just that. Then reward yourself with the upgrades and feel hopefully even better, this way you see how you helped with your weight loss rather than wonder whether it was just the lighter bike, so you get rewarded twice.

Ron Stuart

sagalout wrote:

Are you wanting super light, or super nice to ride?

I'd spend it on a DA groupset, sell the 105 stuff and put that money towards wheels.

I know people say there isn't that much difference in groupsets from 105 upwards but I disagree. My Madone has a mix of 2011 105 and Ultegra, and my Rourke bike has full 2009 Dura Ace - the Dura Ace, despite being 2 years older, is just noticibly nicer all round, especially in the lightness of the shifting, in particular shifting to the big chain ring, and also the power of the brakes.

Outright weight doesn't make much difference to how a bike feels IMO. The touchpoints and interactions are what matter, although you'll save 1lb in the process I suppose

It is known (but not talked about outside the industry) that since shimano have gone for hidden gear cables along the bars that the shifting has been compromised somewhat. I have experienced it myself and it will have little to do with being DA or otherwise, it's more to do with the change of design across the group sets with tighter corners for the inners to run. Looks tidy but doesn't shift as well. :?
By the way I replaced Ultegra triple STI's on my wife’s bike which were getting worn out with lighter Sora triples £80 and the action is the best it's ever been better than the much more expensive Ultegra's and lighter. :!:

okgo

amnesia wrote:

Zoomer37 wrote:

Save around 750g straight away by removing one of those bottles.

It's a slippery and expensive path your on with this.

Lots of fun mind

I've already started riding with a single bottle unless it's a really hot or long ride. We usually stop for a cuppa half way round, so there's always a chance to top up somewhere.

Wheels sounds like my best bet... I fancy some nice, light climbing wheels. The Shimano DuraAce C24s seem to get good reviews and are <1400g I think. Might have a look at them, and the Mavic Ksyrium SLs or similar.

People more inteligent than me have done the sums on this, I tried to find them but can't see where it is now. But the long and short of it was that 1kg made a very small time difference over the course of Box Hill (as that is what we were talking about) so you riding with one bottle to get rid of weight is totally silly tbh...

the best things I did to my bike were good tyres, and light stiff rims, that made me faster due to acceleration and the fact I was not bouncing all over the road on rock hard cheap tyres. I've no idea what my bike weighs, it almost doesn't matter, the difference between a 6 and 8kg bike when its up to speed assuming the weight is eqaul in the wheels and tyres I think is going to be minimal. FWIW you'd be better off floging your bike and spending £1700-£2k on a second hand one at a far higher spec. Or buy a canyon.

flasher

Ron Stuart wrote:

It is known (but not talked about outside the industry) that since shimano have gone for hidden gear cables along the bars that the shifting has been compromised somewhat. I have experienced it myself and it will have little to do with being DA or otherwise, it's more to do with the change of design across the group sets with tighter corners for the inners to run. Looks tidy but doesn't shift as well.

I've personally not found that!

To the OP, buy some nice tyres, tubes and wheels as that's where most manufacturers scrimp on full-builds, after that it's a massive case of diminishing returns...............

cougie

Yes - maybe new wheels and tyres - after that - forget it. There's no way you'll notice the difference.

Save your money and spend it on a trainer, or a nice training camp somewhere.

peejay78

always wheels.

amnesia

Ron Stuart wrote:

I shall mention a few areas where I see additional weight savings.

1. Shoes, I see guys and gals riding very light frames with heavy MTB shoes. I use light road shoes with Keo's and lightweight cleat covers for the cafe.

I''ve got Specialized S-Works road shoes... not much comes lighter or more comfy + Speedplay Zeros

Ron Stuart wrote:

2. Boil in the bag jackets usually yellow, traps sweat in base layers and acts like a sponge, also dehydrates you quicker. They are also known for acting as massive air brakes as they get unzipped as the occupant heats up particularly evident in ride where the air temp also rises during the day.

Haven't got one... only wear lycra, with a base layer if cold.

Ron Stuart wrote:

3. Being properly hydrated is a must on rides/events/racing but I have seen riders carrying at least one full 750ml bottle of fluid all the way round a very hilly sportive. This is achieved by having two 750ml bottles as per your picture (nothing wrong with that) but they then arrive at every feed with at least one bottle still full including arriving at the finish. That's the equivalent of my bike frame again being lugged around the whole course.

I stopped taking two bottles a few months ago once I'd reached a level of fitness where I could get up the hill in my pic without dying on my @rse (~15% for 2 miles !)

Ron Stuart wrote:

4. Lightweight but strong wheels are the way to go along with your personal weight loss the rest can wait, spend £500 on the wheels (get some 2011's discount) and the rest well maybe titanium skewers, see what comes with the wheels.

I am thinking that's my best bet... £500-600 on wheels, and the rest on stuff that makes me feel good on the bike (bars / stem / saddle ?)

Ron Stuart wrote:

Then maybe something lighter from here.... http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Cate ... 44e33bbe98 but no rush for that, my advice is concentrate on firstly getting your weight down, you will feel the benefits a lot from just that. Then reward yourself with the upgrades and feel hopefully even better, this way you see how you helped with your weight loss rather than wonder whether it was just the lighter bike, so you get rewarded twice.

Like I said in an earlier post... I am working on the weight loss, and it will come. I can't see me ever getting much under 175lbs... that's my target and I am almost there. I have lost over 2 stone in the past year and it's already made a huge difference to my riding. I am due some nice upgrades 8)


Thanks for all your helps guys

Cheers,
Daniel.

speshsteve

amnesia wrote:

speshsteve wrote:

after wheels you are into diminishing returns, have a look at 105 chainset weight vs duraace and you'll be surprised just how little difference there is (I think dura ace shifters over 105 shifters is a bigger saving in weight). You could get decent wheels and mix of dura ace/fsa chainset and ultegra groupset for the rest and carbon cockpit for a total of 1k if you shop around, you might save a 1kg (what I have done but haven't fitted the bits yet as I'm gonna wait for spring so can't say for sure what the saving will be in the real world!)

I found a list of component weights here - http://www.totalcycling.com/index.php/c ... ights.html
There's practically nothing in the shifters 105 > DA ; half a pound difference between the cranks though.

The Michelin Krylions are only 20g heavier than Pro Race 3s, and I have Specialized lightweight tubes I think.

They look like manufacturer quoted weights to me, I read a review (I think road cc and uk cycling) where they weighed the crankset 105 vs ultegra and there was nothing in it where as the shifters showed a reasonable saving.

I've got 105 on the bike (roubaix elite) and will be replacing with:

Ultegra group except crankset
Dura Ace crankset
RS80's
Fizik arione saddle
3t comp carbon bar
3t pro stem
gp4000s

will let you know what the scales say!

sungod

i) lurk here for a while to absorb the ambience...

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... um.php?f=3

ii) make a spreadsheet with the weight of the various components of your bike

iii) identify the lowest weight alternative for each one, and the cost

iv)remember that just about every manufacturer quoted weight is aspirational, real weight is almost always higher, sometimes a lot higher

v) decide if the downside/cost for each item is worth the weight saving (lighter parts can be flexier or less robust),
if it's wheels, chances are that heavier+aero will beat lighter+non-aero if you are averaging a decent speed and not spending all day going up hills

fwiw when i lightened my bike, in the process i ended up with heavier more aero wheels, and heavier integrated bars, the old bars and stem were light but also flexy, there are some places i don't want to save weight

the places i saved most were: saddle and seatpost, cables and outers (used powercordz and nokon), skewers, innertubes (race light), some bolts, saddle bag (jerseys have pockets), total about 600g

*certain aspects of this post may contain less than 100% of serious, the weight info is real

Ron Stuart

Amnesia it's great to here you are doing a lot of the right things already man. Just to say that some of my points were aimed in general and not just at yourself, best of luck with your future riding and enjoy