Scotland "FREEDOM!!!" and a Republic of Jamaica?
DonDaddyD
Posts: 12,689
Is England and the appeal of the United Kingdom (Commonwealth) in decline?
Should Scotland push for independence?
Should Jamaica complete the circle of independence break links with the British Monarchy and elect it's own head of state, a president?
What does the UK benefit from Jamaica having the queen as head of state?
What will England lose if Scotland does vote for independence?
Discuss.
Should Scotland push for independence?
Should Jamaica complete the circle of independence break links with the British Monarchy and elect it's own head of state, a president?
What does the UK benefit from Jamaica having the queen as head of state?
What will England lose if Scotland does vote for independence?
Discuss.
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A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
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I think the UK is going about Scottish devolution and independence in the right way i.e. piecemeal, gradually, peacefully.
The scots should be entitled to have a vote on variant forms of, Devo-Max or full independence, and that should be respected.
I have no idea about Jamaica.0 -
Thing is, I don't think we'll get the choice of devo-max, it'll be a straight "Independence or not?" question, which government will be hoping will be too far for Scotland to vote for.
As for, "What will England lose?": Scotland isn't actually a drain on the UK in the same way as, say, Wales or the North East of England. Edinburgh is the third wealthiest city per capita in Europe.0 -
I think Jamaica has every right to choose their own administration so long as it doesn't interfere with the cricket
Scotland though ???????0 -
UndercoverElephant wrote:Thing is, I don't think we'll get the choice of devo-max, it'll be a straight "Independence or not?" question, which government will be hoping will be too far for Scotland to vote for.
From the little I read, Salmond was pushing for a two question referendum. Q1 > Devo max, yes or no, Q2 - full independence, yes or no.
Last polls I heard put Devo Max as a definitely majority for yes, but just under half for full independence.0 -
As an aside, being, y'know, not a Tory fan, Scottish independence would be a nightmare for me in England.0
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Rick Chasey wrote:From the little I read, Salmond was pushing for a two question referendum. Q1 > Devo max, yes or no, Q2 - full independence, yes or no.
Last polls I heard put Devo Max as a definitely majority for yes, but just under half for full independence.
That would be Salmond's preferred referendum. It's probably not what we'll be asked, though, because of the high likelihood we'd say yes.0 -
Jay dubbleU wrote:I think Jamaica has every right to choose their own administration so long as it doesn't interfere with the cricket
Scotland though ???????
Scotland has exactly the same rights to pull out of the UK as the UK has to pull out of the EU.
Whether it will happen or not remains to be seen but you can hardly blame the SNP for trying as it is their main raison d'etre.
Can't see that it'll affect the cricket too much either way
None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
UndercoverElephant wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:From the little I read, Salmond was pushing for a two question referendum. Q1 > Devo max, yes or no, Q2 - full independence, yes or no.
Last polls I heard put Devo Max as a definitely majority for yes, but just under half for full independence.
That would be Salmond's preferred referendum. It's probably not what we'll be asked, though, because of the high likelihood we'd say yes.
You think the coalition really wants to keep it unified?
I mean, beyond Cameron not wanting to be the chap that oversaw the breakup, it's win win for the Tories.
They get to do it on their terms (ish), and once Scotland has left Westminster, the Tories wipe a load of opponent seats from the Commons!
I can't see the lib dems arguing for anything more than self-determination.0 -
The loss of 35-45 solid Labour seats from Westminster? The Tories must be laughing.Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
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Well I'm all for it :-) It would keep Labour out of power south of the border for quite some time. If Cameron is clever he'll talk the talk about opposing the break up but find a way of letting the SNP at least get their referendum.Asprilla wrote:The loss of 35-45 solid Labour seats from Westminster? The Tories must be laughing."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
What does England & Scotland (not it's political parties) lose or gain from Scotland going independent?Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:What does England & Scotland (not it's political parties) lose or gain from Scotland going independent?
Can't see it making much difference either way. Trade and movement would be free between the two. Transfers of wealth would not, but netted off, this is tiny.
Theoretically, a smaller country should find it a bit more expensive to run things, borrow money etc, but in reality this isn't always the case.
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There will be (is) a big argument about the sovereignty of the North Sea oil.
That's a big and complicated argument.0 -
Depending on what kind of independence is achieved, Scotland might lose some defence that it had under the union.0
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DonDaddyD wrote:What does England & Scotland (not it's political parties) lose or gain from Scotland going independent?
Depends on who you believe.
Scotland COULD gain from self government and not being ruled by a distant parliament, even if the distance is small, as the politics are hugely different.
Or it could be a financial disaster.
England could gain as they wouldn't have to subsidise Scotland.
Or it could be that they don't.
Alex Salmond will be playing the long game. Initailly he was banking on being in the Euro and simply cutting out the middle man (Westminster). That doesn't seem as attractive anymore.
This will be a huge issue regardless of which side you are on.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
I wonder if it would actually cause some re-balancing of both English and Scottish politics.Stevo 666 wrote:
Well I'm all for it :-) It would keep Labour out of power south of the border for quite some time. If Cameron is clever he'll talk the talk about opposing the break up but find a way of letting the SNP at least get their referendum.Asprilla wrote:The loss of 35-45 solid Labour seats from Westminster? The Tories must be laughing.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
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rjsterry wrote:
I wonder if it would actually cause some re-balancing of both English and Scottish politics.Stevo 666 wrote:
Well I'm all for it :-) It would keep Labour out of power south of the border for quite some time. If Cameron is clever he'll talk the talk about opposing the break up but find a way of letting the SNP at least get their referendum.Asprilla wrote:The loss of 35-45 solid Labour seats from Westminster? The Tories must be laughing.
It would, but imagine the sh!tfight.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Depending on what kind of independence is achieved, Scotland might lose some defence that it had under the union.
Not sure when Scotland was last invaded, by anyone other than the English, anyway 0 -
bails87 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Depending on what kind of independence is achieved, Scotland might lose some defence that it had under the union.
Not sure when Scotland was last invaded, by anyone other than the English, anyway
Pretty sure the Romans turned up, conquered, realised it was a dump and built a wall to keep them out. :P0 -
I really don't mind as its up to the Scots themselves just as long as UK taxpayers are not funding it.0
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FTFYRick Chasey wrote:bails87 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Depending on what kind of independence is achieved, Scotland might lose some defence that it had under the union.
Not sure when Scotland was last invaded, by anyone other than the English, anyway
Pretty sure the Romans turned up, conquered, realised it was full of barbarians and built a wall to keep them out. :P0 -
Scotland's also a net exporter of water and electricity to England.
With ref. to defence: I'd put Ponitus' Bodyguards up against Lancers any day, who made up the Thin Red Line?
You never know, maybe it would be Scotland marching South?FCN16 - 1970 BSA Wayfarer
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Blue Meanie wrote:Scotland's also a net exporter of water and electricity to England.
With ref. to defence: I'd put Ponitus' Bodyguards up against Lancers any day, who made up the Thin Red Line?
You never know, maybe it would be Scotland marching South?
I meant more the nuclear umbrella etc.
But yeah. In reality I'm sure a shared armed forces agreement would be reached.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:I meant more the nuclear umbrella etc.
But yeah. In reality I'm sure a shared armed forces agreement would be reached.
Faslane is in Scotland. That would be a serious negotiation. However the SNP wants Scotland to be nuclear free so England will get it. My guess is Scottish forces under an EU umbrella. But that assumes no-one in the EU would invade.
Nice water up here :PNone of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
Joining the EU?daviesee wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:I meant more the nuclear umbrella etc.
But yeah. In reality I'm sure a shared armed forces agreement would be reached.
Faslane is in Scotland. That would be a serious negotiation. However the SNP wants Scotland to be nuclear free so England will get it. My guess is Scottish forces under an EU umbrella. But that assumes no-one in the EU would invade.
Nice water up here :P
It gets more and more complicated the more you look at it.
I've got a friend who works in Holyrood and his lot can't quite believe how good Salmond is. He says his party is basically a cross section of the political spectrum, purely unified by Scottish independence. Given that he has to make decisions on other stuff, that he keeps it all together is a small miracle.
Says my mate.... But I trust him. Smart guy.0
