Power meters.

golfergmc

I am considering buying a power meter of some type, srm seems out of my price range so it comes down to quarq, powertap and garmin vector when it`s released. I don`t race but do want to be as good a cyclist as I can be. I am leaning towards the garmin as it is easy to install as I have two bikes, one for the turbo trainer in the winter and my good carbon bike for the summer.
I also have two sets of wheels for the good bike which is why i`m reluctant about the powertap. Would I be better going for the quarq on the good bike and sticking to training with the hrm on the turbo or go with the garmin and use it on both bikes.
Any help appreciated as i`m so confused over this.

ric/rstsport

almost certainly you'll want to use your power meter on both bikes -- at least that's the case with the people i coach. if you ensure you have the same type of bottom bracket on both bikes, it's easy enough to switch the Quarq between the two bikes. power tap you can swap wheels between bikes, but obviously you have the wheel issue with that.

SRM, Power Tap, Quarq are all well tested now in terms of accuracy and reliability. The Garmins and Looks are currently an unknown quantity.

Ric

amaferanga

Probably easier to switch a Quarq than a pair of pedals. And are you aware of the Power2Max crank?

golfergmc

Thanks for the replies, the only problem with the two bikes is one is a triple and one is a compact. I have heard of the power2max but don't know anywhere that stocks them.

amaferanga

golfergmc wrote:

Thanks for the replies, the only problem with the two bikes is one is a triple and one is a compact. I have heard of the power2max but don't know anywhere that stocks them.

You buy them from Power2max. Do you actually need a triple?

golfergmc

No, but would it not cost a fortune to change?

ric/rstsport

the biggest issue with the power2max is the reported drifts on them...

napoleond

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

the biggest issue with the power2max is the reported drifts on them...

I saw the head to head test, the drift was quite significant. Surely that renders them ineffective? Consistency is, I think, the most important factor.

richa

golfergmc wrote:

No, but would it not cost a fortune to change?

No. May cost very little, if anything. The main cost of changing to a triple is the chainset. But you will be buying/using the SRM/Quarq/Power2Max in anycase.

With some triple STI levers you may need to change the left lever, others can also be used as double/compact levers - That was the case when I added my Quarq with my Tiagra triple.

phy2sll2

http://www.quarq.com/

Does that bike look too small to anyone else?

bigpikle

^^ I suspect the close up use of a wide angle lens is makig things look rather different to how they would appear in reality...

I use a PowerTap and would recommend it. Switching between bikes is simple and as the later models have a simple pull off cassette you can switch between Campag & Shimano setups in seconds - as I do all the time.

I know you say you have 2 sets of wheels but do you really need to use both all the time?

Team4Luke

is there some reason you think you can't be as good as you can be without a PM, you say your not racing so there is no need to measure your performance as accurately as a PM can. Don't buy one just to keep up with the "Jones".

ric/rstsport

Team4Luke wrote:

is there some reason you think you can't be as good as you can be without a PM, you say your not racing so there is no need to measure your performance as accurately as a PM can. Don't buy one just to keep up with the "Jones".

Of course, no one actually *needs* a power meter. Training can be effective without one. The OP probably doesn't need two bikes either, or fancy wheels.

On the other hand, irrespective of whether the OP is racing or not, if someone wants the most effective training then it is better measured and assessed with a power meter.

Ric

golfergmc

I am the sort of person who likes to see improvements no matter how small. I tend to stick to the same 20 mile loop and always try to beat my pb but a lot of factors can effect my time were if I had a power meter I can say I done the loop averaging x amount of watts and then try to always improve on my average watts with each session. I am leaning to the quarq over the powertap but would go with the garmin over the quarq for ease of changing from one bike to another so I can use it in the winter on the turbo if it proved accurate.

ric/rstsport

golfergmc wrote:

I am the sort of person who likes to see improvements no matter how small. I tend to stick to the same 20 mile loop and always try to beat my pb but a lot of factors can effect my time were if I had a power meter I can say I done the loop averaging x amount of watts and then try to always improve on my average watts with each session. I am leaning to the quarq over the powertap but would go with the garmin over the quarq for ease of changing from one bike to another so I can use it in the winter on the turbo if it proved accurate.

i can think of somewhat better training methods... have you thought about coaching, which would make your performance improve somewhat more.

golfergmc

Have thought of coaching but as I don`t intend to race I didn`t think there would be no point.

ric/rstsport

golfergmc wrote:

Have thought of coaching but as I don`t intend to race I didn`t think there would be no point.

i think that's like saying you don't need a power meter as you don't race!!

note, that we coach a few people who don't race (but do events such as sportives)
ric

golfergmc

I want a power meter to show my improvements in "real time" as such. Should have clarified that I do other types of training, intervals, different zones etc but once a week I like to test myself around my 20 mile loop to see if I can go any quicker.

ric/rstsport

golfergmc wrote:

I want a power meter to show my improvements in "real time" as such. Should have clarified that I do other types of training, intervals, different zones etc but once a week I like to test myself around my 20 mile loop to see if I can go any quicker.

glad to hear you do other types of training :-). if you've got a goal (sportive, race, weight loss, etc) coaching can be a good idea. if you don't have a goal then probably not

Team4Luke

golfergmc wrote:

I am the sort of person who likes to see improvements no matter how small. I tend to stick to the same 20 mile loop and always try to beat my pb but a lot of factors can effect my time were if I had a power meter I can say I done the loop averaging x amount of watts and then try to always improve on my average watts with each session. I am leaning to the quarq over the powertap but would go with the garmin over the quarq for ease of changing from one bike to another so I can use it in the winter on the turbo if it proved accurate.

sticking to a known loop to test yourself is always useful. Yes there will always be factors, wind and corners and traffic, they will affect your ave speed and your ave power just the same :roll: , but if you keep a record of your loops then you should see your time trend curve to complete it come down over a period - if your time comes down then you will have increased your power anyway :roll: . Simply if you could pedal harder then you would, looking at power doesn't mean you can pedal harder just because your looking at different data, it may help you pace better, you have ave speed on your computer, Garmin can record routes and you can race yourself and it will display whether you are up or down on your time.
Just have a good think before spending a lot of money.

golfergmc

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

golfergmc wrote:

I want a power meter to show my improvements in "real time" as such. Should have clarified that I do other types of training, intervals, different zones etc but once a week I like to test myself around my 20 mile loop to see if I can go any quicker.

glad to hear you do other types of training :-). if you've got a goal (sportive, race, weight loss, etc) coaching can be a good idea. if you don't have a goal then probably not

my goal is to get some weight off and average 20mph for my loop, my problem is that I set off too fast and then blow up towards then end where if I had a number on the power meter to stick too so I would get round in the magical 20mph I would give myself a better chance.

ric/rstsport

Team4Luke wrote:

golfergmc wrote:

I am the sort of person who likes to see improvements no matter how small. I tend to stick to the same 20 mile loop and always try to beat my pb but a lot of factors can effect my time were if I had a power meter I can say I done the loop averaging x amount of watts and then try to always improve on my average watts with each session. I am leaning to the quarq over the powertap but would go with the garmin over the quarq for ease of changing from one bike to another so I can use it in the winter on the turbo if it proved accurate.

sticking to a known loop to test yourself is always useful. Yes there will always be factors, wind and corners and traffic, they will affect your ave speed and your ave power just the same :roll: , but if you keep a record of your loops then you should see your time trend curve to complete it come down over a period - if your time comes down then you will have increased your power anyway :roll: . Simply if you could pedal harder then you would, looking at power doesn't mean you can pedal harder just because your looking at different data, it may help you pace better, you have ave speed on your computer, Garmin can record routes and you can race yourself and it will display whether you are up or down on your time.
Just have a good think before spending a lot of money.

If you look at it over periods of time, yes, it's likely that your time will come down as you get fitter, but, this won't always be the case. Environmental conditions will play a part and could see you ride slower even though you're putting out a greater power output. For e.g., my PB for a 10-mile TT required less power than something like my 5th best time for a 10 (which required the greatest power i've so far managed). These times were done on the same course.

Wind, temperature, air density, etc will have a large impact on your time.

Ric

carbonmanx

Just tapping onto the end of this thread, I have also been considering a power meter to ensure i'm actually putting in enough effort up hills etc.. even with a HRM I find it hard to measure my real effort. Hence a power meter would give me that data.
However the garmin training partner feature on the 800's looks like it could also be useful, the question I have is can you snap the training partner to a particular segment on your route?
So for example, if I do a 20 mile loop but am only interested in seing my ghost on the hill on mile 15, can I bring it back or forward depending on whether I have been slower or faster on the previous 15 miles so I have someone to race against up the hills?

Cheers

Pokerface

There are arguments both for and against power meters and coaching.

But if you have a power meter and know how to get the most out of it (probably through some form of coaching), there's no doubt that you'll get the greatest amount of improvement in your cycling - much more than a PM or coach on it's own.

You can get a PM and a simple training plan or tips online for free if you look around. A good coach will help you shape the plan to your needs and analyse your training as you go along.

Despite the advice of any coach (as they have their own self-interest at heart), I personally think you'll gain more from a PM than a coach. As long as you learn to use it correctly. There's no point in having one if you just use it as a high-priced speedo or HRM.

As for which one to get... tough call. I started with Powertap which was great until I wanted to get power data from events where I used different wheels (TTs, races, etc). Then I moved to Quarq - and the data I got was very inconsistent and I 'broke' 2 units in the space of a few months. I ended up with an SRM. I'll be getting the Look Power Pedals soon to test out so will be able to compare to my SRM data for the same rides.

I think Quarq may have improved a bit now that they are being sold by Sram. Easy to swap between bikes as needed.

sagalout

I got a power meter quite some time ago (powertap). It was interesting to see the numbers, but found myself still actually training by HR and then seeing what the power was. I didn't really see much improvement from this.

I got a coach this year (Jon Sharples @ Trainsharpe) and ive seen huge improvements in the last 3 months by switching to actually training by the power zones and ignoring HR. my personal opinion is that it works by effectively making you work harder and much more specifically (especially on a turbo as it removes HR creep), but having a coach also makes you less inclined to skip sessions!

In summary, it sounds like a powermeter won't really help you, as you intend to use it to measure progress whilst you train the same way (as I initially did). If you switch to power you need to change how you train and use the meter during the session, not just to see how you did at the end of it.

Ultimately If I had to give one up, I'd stick with coaching

golfergmc

I do intend to change my training and am reading Training and Racing with a power meter by Hunter and Allen(great book) in order to get the most out of the power meter. I have started to do different sessions on the turbo before I have even got the meter to get used to the type of training needed.

ajmitchell

sagalout wrote:

(especially on a turbo as it removes HR creep)

what is HR creep exactly? I have not heard this term?

sagalout

I don't know if thats the proper term, but if I ride at, say 155bpm on the turbo for an hour (threshold pace for me) If I check my power output it will start to trail off slightly for the same HR.

If I ride by power at say 250W for an hour, my heart rate edges up over time. I think its to do with the extra heat generated when riding indoors, but basically training by power eliminates it, as you can ignore the HR and make sure you're actually keeping up the proper effort for the full duration.

amaferanga

HR drift.

sagalout

Thats the one

golfergmc

I have noticed this myself, I was training in hr zones and it felt nearer the end of the workout there was less effort being exerted in order to stay in the hr zone. I am now training to an average speed and forgetting about hr till I get a power meter and then it will be training to a certain wattage.