Ribble Stealth vs DeRosa 838, the same or urban myth?

cyclingsheepcyclingsheep Posts: 674
edited October 2014 in Road buying advice
Ok so here it is in a nutshell. Are the Ribble Stealth and the DeRosa 838 frames 'exactly' the same or do they just look the same? Are they made of the same carbon? The same thickness, strength, rigidity etc or is one merely a copy of the other? The more I hear people say they are the same the more I'm beginning to wonder if this is not one of those urban myths that once started just snowballs as people jump on the band wagon. HELP!
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  • DesWellerDesWeller Posts: 5,271
    You used to be able to get the frames on eBay from Carbonzone but I don't see them on there any more. The frame is a Chinese number.

    About 3/4 of the way down this page is a RB838 build.
    - - - - - - - - - -
    On Strava.{/url}
  • Monty DogMonty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Yes - frame is made by Xpace Industrial in Xiamen in China - Ribble even reproduce XPA's geometry chart.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • ALIHISGREATALIHISGREAT Posts: 4,020
    Monty Dog wrote:
    Yes - frame is made by Xpace Industrial in Xiamen in China - Ribble even reproduce XPA's geometry chart.


    or... do XPA reproduce Ribble's geometry chart? :wink:


    Look at Hongfu bikes or Dengfu bikes if you want to pick up the chinese version -> its cheaper than carbonzone on ebay.
  • bus_terbus_ter Posts: 337
    Okay, lets examine this in more detail..

    Ribble Stealth

    ribblestealthpic.jpg

    De Rosa R838

    DeRosaR838pic.jpg



    Ribble Stealth Geometry

    FrameGeometryStealth.jpg

    De Rosa R838 Geometry

    R838geometry.gif


    1) The frames visually appear the same
    2) The geometry at first appears to mismatch. However this is because Ribble measure their Seat Tube size from Centre of the BB to the top of the seat tube. De Rosa measure from the top of the BB to the top of the seat tube. If we take this into consideration and compare the rest of the geometry they match exactly.

    Therefore they are from the same mold, and most probably the same carbon and identical frames

    Case Closed! :mrgreen:
  • ALIHISGREATALIHISGREAT Posts: 4,020
    might be the same mould.. but the same production process?

    for example.. apparently with the Giant carbon bikes, the Advanced versions take longer to go through manufacturing because they use a special process which makes the carbon stronger and thus requires less material.

    The composite models are produced more quickly and don't gain from the longer processes used on the advanced.


    But yeah, i'd buy the ribble... the stealth looks nicer than the De rose regardless of price in my opinion.
  • bus_terbus_ter Posts: 337
    Okay so lets now compare the Ribble New Sportive vs the De Rosa R848

    Ribble New Sportive

    ribblenewsportivepic.jpg


    De Rosa R848

    DeRosaR848pic.jpg


    Ribble New Sportive Geometry

    newsportivegeometry.jpg

    De Rosa R848 Geometry

    r848geometry.gif

    Again they appear visually the same. Once you take into account the different way the ST size is measured the geometries are near identical. The small differences appear to be rounding errors (i.e the De Rosa has just left off the decimal place without rounding to the nearest whole figure).

    Just to mix it up we can compare a third set of geometries from a magazine review of the New Sportive:

    newsportivemagazinegeometry.jpg

    These are for the 53cm (Ribble C-T) frame. These measurements actually don't match up at all with the measured specs. I'm going to assume the magazine has published the wrong specs by accident, or they have measured them and found the published geometries to be incorrect.

    Anyway, ignoring the third set of measurements I'm going to assume:

    The Ribble New Sportive and De Rosa R848 ARE the Same Frame
  • NairnsterNairnster Posts: 602
    So ignore another set of results to confirm your opinion. Are you a politician?
  • bus_terbus_ter Posts: 337
    For those of you like myself trying to decide between the two frames, here is a Google translation describing each frame.

    De Rosa R838
    A beautiful frame clear and expressive design in an extremely attractive price-performance level with all the technical features that also distinguish high-end frame: in monocoque construction made ​​of K3 fibers, with an oversized head tube, BB30 bottom bracket and embedded wires. The R838 is available in five sizes.
    De Rosa R848

    More than an entry-level bike - the R848 is elegant and shows attention to detail - as is known from all other models de Rosas.

    The monocoque frame not only look attractive but also meets all technical requirements in modern cycling - even for those who know the sport and the world of new De Rosa.
    Maximum manageability, reliability and low weight characterize this model, which offers a perfect balance between quality and performance and a remarkable entry into the world of cycling.


    I don't know how De Rosa price them, but from the description the R848 sounds more like an entry level bike. Ribble price both frames about the same.

    Also worth noting, the R838 was introduced a year earlier than the R848.
  • bus_terbus_ter Posts: 337
    Nairnster wrote:
    So ignore another set of results to confirm your opinion. Are you a politician?

    No I'm not a politician, and yes I have ignored the magazine results! The reasons being that the Ribble and De Rosa measurments are exactly the same. This is because they come from the same source (the factory most likely). Thus I'm making a pretty safe assumption that they are the same frame.

    The magazine results are different because they have probably made a mistake, or maybe they have actually measured the frame and found it disagrees with the factory figures (i.e we all know frames weigh a little more than the specs). In anycase it doesn't matter and they're still the same frames.
  • sorry if ive missed this but are the grades of carbon the same? I cant imagine they are because the 838 is raved about and is a joy to ride, not ridden the ribble but while popular it doesnt get the same love on reviews.
  • Monty DogMonty Dog Posts: 20,614
    The frame is an open mould design - the advantage to both Ribble and DeRosa is that they can 'call off' frames as needed in terms of sizes. XPA simply paints them up on request and ships them out. Advantage for bike companies is not having large consignments on stock paid for in advance. If you still believe they make different lay ups for different customers it doesn't make any sense for anyone except for people gullible enough to believe that a different paintjob bestows different properties on the frame.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • DesWellerDesWeller Posts: 5,271
    jonbristol wrote:
    sorry if ive missed this but are the grades of carbon the same? I cant imagine they are because the 838 is raved about and is a joy to ride, not ridden the ribble but while popular it doesnt get the same love on reviews.

    Well there's a lot more to a bike than the frame. At this price point you're well into diminishing returns, it's not going to be like comparing a CAAD9 with a £150 Tesco Special, so whatever the reviews say I'd be taking them with a pinch of salt.

    Anyway, this review of the Ribble seems pretty positive.
    - - - - - - - - - -
    On Strava.{/url}
  • PeteMadocPeteMadoc Posts: 2,666
    I bought one of these frames with a custom paint job from carbonzone on ebay. It wasn't listed at the time but I asked and I got.

    viewtopic.php?f=40044&t=12792939

    It's well built, light, stiff, handles great and a joy to ride.

    Dunno what the De Rosa R838 is like but I'm not going to be spending the extra £££ to find out either.

    I do lust after other bikes but few of them are high end carbon, I would pay more for a beautiful steel frame but not a carbon frame from the same factory with a different paint job.

    Oh and if you're buying a complete bike you can't really beat the Ribble prices
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 15,950
    jonbristol wrote:
    sorry if ive missed this but are the grades of carbon the same? I cant imagine they are because the 838 is raved about and is a joy to ride, not ridden the ribble but while popular it doesnt get the same love on reviews.

    I recall reading Which (that supposedly exemplary dispassionate reviewer :roll: ) - it was looking at family saloons. A Honda Civic was described as having a very nice interior, full of tactile plastics. The same review described the cheap plastics of the Rover 200. Both cars where made on the same production line and the interior fittings almost identical. Just because reviews give different results, don't assume that the product isn't the same.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Well there are certainly some compelling arguements here and I was almost convinced that the two are one and the same. Of course I wanted to believe it was true becasue I am seriously considering buying the Ribble.

    So I contacted Ribble and asked them if they were out of the same mould and they told me they aren't. To quote them, "The bike is very similar, but it’s not come out of the same mould as the derosa that’s purely internet rumours."

    I think this is probably a more compelling argument than speculation and should end the debate (but probably won't :wink: ).
    Riding a Scott Carbon CR1
    Website: [url]http://www.landsend-...hnogroats.co.uk[/url]
    A wise man once said that people who make quotes have too much time on their hands
  • PeteMadocPeteMadoc Posts: 2,666
    I got an email from Gotobike the other day offering this frame and calling it FM339

    FM339.jpg

    Looks mighty familiar
  • greasedscotsmangreasedscotsman Posts: 7,224
    PeteMadoc wrote:
    I got an email from Gotobike the other day offering this frame and calling it FM339

    Catchy name! :D
  • markwb79markwb79 Posts: 926
    I asked the guy on a De Rosa stand at the weekend and he said.... Yes its the same frame, if you look hard enough you can find the frame from the Asian factory.

    Very tempted to get the Ribble version.
    Scott Addict 2011
    Giant TCR 2012
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    Youd have expected the DeRosa guy to deny this. But I'd also have thought Ribble would have been keen to confirm it.
    Strange eh ?
  • markwb79markwb79 Posts: 926
    He was just the Saturday temp guy with less affinity to the brand I suspect. Probably regretted telling me afterwards! But he knew his stuff about the bikes though.
    Scott Addict 2011
    Giant TCR 2012
  • le_bossle_boss Posts: 183
    Hi

    Im after a new commuter (see other thread in road buying advice) and i do love the look of the FM339.
    Does anyone know where i can get one from? I have looked on ebay and carbonzone, have also looked at gotobike but cant find it anywhere.

    Also,what is the sizing like? (im just under 5ft 11" & current race bike - focus - is 56cm with a 55.5cm top tube)

    And finally, can they paint the frames for you before delivery? How much is this? Does this affect the returns policy?

    Thanks for any help
  • warrior4lifewarrior4life Posts: 1,127
    I doubt a Saturday guy on a stand would know exactly where the frames come from, Recently I've spoken to guys from Giant (who make all treks carbon frames that are produced outside the US) and Trek and they say the dont even know who exactly is making what.
    A few big names are well known but the smaller companies its harder to know.
    The guys at Giant couldnt say for certain who Giant are making frames for.
    I would imagine the ribble is made from the same mould but probably using different carbon-resin and a different layup.
    I'm no expert, The world is full of fakes, Ferraris, Watches, sunglasses and bikes as well.
  • yayayaya Posts: 411
    I think the only way to find out is to be at the factory (whichever that might be) and to see if a certain mould spits out similar frames that get painted differently, packed and shipped to 2 different destinations...

    You can use different weaves, different number of layers, different resin (or pre-pregs), different release agents, different balloons, different curing process and temperature. One way to tell a (possible) difference would be to weigh two frames of the same size. The "better" one should be lighter, in theory...

    It could also be that all the frames indeed come out of the same mould, same process etc. but those who are rejected due to a certain amount of minor defects (like bubbles in the shellcoat) are sold as the cheaper version.
  • PAK-MANPAK-MAN Posts: 76
    I recently asked this very question of the UK De Rosa importer. Recognising that there might be a element of "well he would say that wouldn't he", his view was that the mould was very similar but that the carbon fibre was different (with the De Rosa being of a better grade).
  • http://www.xpa-cycling.com/products_dat ... html&key=2

    Here's the xpace 838 let's play spot the difference, cable routing, seatpost, front mech mount, rear dropout. Other than that they look similar. It's blatantly not exactly the same.
    I cant comment on the ribble, but it's a choice you make, a company with a proud heritage, years of investment and r and d, over a shop with not the greatest customer service reputation and none of the above.

    Who will bother to push technology in cycling forward if you just buy the cheap ripoffs? Shall we leave that to ribble and the Chinese?
  • DizeeeDizeee Posts: 337
    I'm going to make some enquiries of my own on this, via email. I will update once done...
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 15,950
    mallott wrote:
    I cant comment on the ribble, but it's a choice you make, a company with a proud heritage, years of investment and r and d, over a shop with not the greatest customer service reputation and none of the above.

    You don't know much about Ribble do you.........
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Rolf F wrote:
    mallott wrote:
    I cant comment on the ribble, but it's a choice you make, a company with a proud heritage, years of investment and r and d, over a shop with not the greatest customer service reputation and none of the above.

    You don't know much about Ribble do you.........

    Which one is which????
    GT Series 4 2010
    Felt F4 2012
    Giant Defy 1 2014 - now gone!!
    2016 Kinesis T2 V3 w 105 groupset
    2016 Kinesis Aithein - R8000
  • BookwyseBookwyse Posts: 245
    Why are we all hung up over where a frame comes from. We all know that companies all use the same suppliers, it's been going on for years.

    Lotus used to use the gear sets from a British Leyland Maxi. Golfs used to use the gearbox from a British Leyland Montego.

    At the end of the day get a bike you like and screw the knockers.
  • neebneeb Posts: 4,251
    There's no doubt that the frames come out of the same mould, but it's a valid question whether different layups / grades of carbon are used for frames made for different brands or markets. I'm tempted to believe that they are not in this case, because whenever manufacturers invest more in some aspect of production they always make damn sure that the customer knows about it. I think if the De Rosa version had a better grade of carbon or different layup De Rosa would say so, and they wouldn't give vague or non-committal answers to questions about it.

    But there's no doubt that you can get identical looking frames made with different grades of carbon, some manufacturers even sell them in their own ranges, e.g. the Scott Foil and Addict HMX and HMF frame versions are effectively indistinguishable except by weight.
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