Does my position look okay?

mrbez

Hi Guys,

I got my trainer yesterday and so far so good.

I just took a small video today after my session to ask for any improvements on my position.

I've never really experienced any issues when out on the road, but you guys can see some small adjustments that I should make?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9jgjg1X ... UThPtJM_RP

Thanks in advance.

Monty Dog

Saddle position looks fine, however your bar position is still relatively upright. Depends on what you are planning to do on the bike but perhaps as part of your training drills you could try doing some prolonged riding on the drops - it takes some time for your core muscles to adapt to the position but it could help with long, fast downhills and riding into a headwind.

mrbez

Thanks Monty.

petemadoc

Hard to tell from a video but as Monty said, bars are high with spacers underneath and stem pointing upwards (at least it looks that way).

You don't look like a fat dentist so I'd guess you could achieve a lower position. That's if you want to.

seanoconn

I'd agree your position is pretty good, just slightly upright.

You could work on your triceps though, i suggest doing push-ups with your hands closer together.

napoleond

It looks like you are getting a tiny bit of 'acceleration' from the back of the knee at the bottom of the stroke, difficult to tell from a video though. This also roused my suspicion with the 'whirr whirr' of the turbo rather than one 'whiiiiir'.
Try lowering the saddle 3mm and moving it back a touch.
I'd also suggest you try lowering the bars but that's based on no knowledge of any body issues. The best way to set the bars is to find where's comfortable on the drops (loosen the stem enough to allow rotation) then adjust the shifters accordingly (you will probably need to retape)

I get my bikes fitted by Adrian Timmis who works wonders.

Have a look at these two pages though by fit guru Steve Hogg-

http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/blo ... can-it-be/

http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/blo ... oad-bikes/

mrbez

Thanks for the extra advice guys.

If I wan't to lower my bars, is it just a case of unscrewing the top, taking a spacer out and then screwing back on?

And flipping the stem, same process?

Do people find the lower stem more comfortable?

Seanoconn - Haha, thanks for the tip

Monty Dog

Lowering your bar position reduces your frontal area and so given you benefits when riding into a headwind or trying to maintain higher speeds - you dont appear to posses the 'midriff' of the aforesaid 'fat dentist' that would be in the way ;-). Don't try and make a big shift in your position all at once - try and be progressive to help your body through adaptation and maybe working on your flexibility and core body strength. Try moving a spacer at a time rather than shifting the whole stack. Likewise, flipping the stem is simply an Allen key job.

wiganwarriors

I agree with Napoleon get a bike fit from Adrian Timmis a truly nice guy and former pro who really knows his game. Think he his still throwing in the sidas footbeds with the fit. Helped my position no end.

good luck

Pseudonym

I'm sure Adrian is good, but for all we know this fella might live on the opposite side of the country, so telling him to get a bike fit there might be pretty pointless.

I don;t think the guy actually needs a bike fit and to be honest, most people seem to get by ok without one. For what it's worth, the position looks ok - bit high at the front maybe, but if you're not racing then it's probably not an issue...

Evil Laugh

I agree with Nap re saddle, that's what I thought when looking at it, but hard to tell for sure in a video.

The whir is a good giveaway. Took the missus to get a new bike yesterday at Condor. Despite her having her perfectly set up and fitted current bike there with her the dude there insisted on ignoring that completely and trying to fit her again on the jig. Long story short, her saddle was too high while on the jig/trainer and the staccato sound of the trainer was so pronounced as she was reaching down with every stroke, sounded like someone on a stepper machine.

Most people probably do "get by" without a fitting, some persevere with trial and error over time and get it right, some get used to a bad position etc etc and think they're fine. What I will say is that I see a hell of a lot of people cycling around where I live (London/Kent) that could definitely do with help. Most common and obvious issues being saddle massively too high (seems common in the wannabe/keen looking club type riders, maybe a result of the fashion for lots of seatpost?!?), bars too stretched out or low (locked elbows, rolled shoulders, knees knocking gut) and obvious need for foot correction. I see a lot of very fit, experienced looking cyclists on posh bikes that I'd throw into all the above categories. I was cycling behind a guy not too long ago, both his arches collapsed a lot on each pedal stroke, ankles turned in, sending his knees into an S shaped motion through the stroke as viewed from behind. I chatted to him about it but he assured me he was an ex-pro and he was fine. Looked bloody awful and preventable to me.

My point is, I think everyone can benefit from seeing a good fitter. If anything the minimum it will save you is all the time and effort going though the trial and error process yourself over weeks and months. In my own case, the relatively small adjustments made were of a huge benefit. Where I thought I was fine before seeing scherrit @ bike whisperer, after I suddenly realised all the little things that were niggling me and how much better I felt. More power, better weight distribution, not fidgeting on the saddle, indeed I stopped noticing my saddle at all.

The least you can do is take a good long read of the Steve Hogg blog, because that dude talks a lot of sense.

wiganwarriors

Pseudonym what makes you an authority on simply making a judgement on this guys position with a 1 minute video clip. I can only speak from personal experience but the fit i had was invaluable and partly relieved my excruciating back pain. I take it you have never had a pro bike fit hence the naivety of your comment. I travelled 150 mile round trip to see Adrian and would do so again. To the gentlemen who posted the question you could be forever making alterations and never be truly content at least if you get measured up you have a good starting base imo.

good luck.

Pseudonym

wiganwarriors wrote:

Pseudonym what makes you an authority on simply making a judgement on this guys position with a 1 minute video clip.

good question. I'm not a coach and have no bike fit experience - but I have been racing & training for the best part of 20 years and have seen a lot of weird and wonderful riding positions in that time - and his position looks reasonable to me, with the caveats I mentioned earlier. Am I an authority? No. Do I feel qualified to at least comment? Yes.

My comments are not 'naive' as you put it, although yours might be. I'm glad your bike fit worked for you and I have only ever heard good things about Mr Timmis. Anyway, the guy asked for opinions and I offered mine.

Evil Laugh

I think the problem is you could have 2 or 3 guys on here (theoretically) that claim to be expert or professional fitters and they would possibly all disagree with what is going on in this video or any other query that might get posted. Even seeing people on the bike they might disagree.

Personally talking to a few places about getting a fit in London and researching client feedback, one stood out head and shoulders over the rest and they were by no means the most expensive.

It is a minefield though, methods, theories, costs involved, allotted time and issues/services etc covered within the "fit" vary wildly between establishments and I think this can lead to sceptisism of the whole idea being a bit of a con. Which is a shame. I always say it's the best bike related money I ever spent, finding the right fitter is key though.

Evil Laugh

Meant to say to OP, trying to fine tune a fit on here by video is likely doomed to failure, maybe it's ok just as a place to start and work from there, like the online competitive cyclist fit or something.

You'll get differing opinions, guesswork and probably nonsense thrown at you and chances are when you start, for eg, moving saddle up and down you'll start affecting other areas like fore aft adjustment, balance and you could end up in a right mess (mark everything before fiddling). If you want to really refine a position that you feel is ok, get someone to look at you on the bike from varying angles who has a decent idea what they are talking about. I think you're wasting your time on here, personally.

lemoncurd

If you are comfortable on the road and not racing then a bike fit is a waste of time and money.

Looks fine to me, use one of the on-line fit calculators to check your set-up if in doubt.

Enjoy.

wiganwarriors

IMO its a no brainer the obvious and most sensible way to go is a bike fit for the sake of
£130 it just isn't worth the tedious self diagnosis route. As well as the position aspect you will probably increase your power output which can't be a bad thing. Also if you have outlayed a vast ammount of money on the purchase of a nice bike why skimp on the bike fit. just my opinion though.

wiganwarriors

pseudonym i was not questioning your post everyone is entitled to an opinion and i do appreciate you have a plethora of experience but surely you cant deny getting a proper fit is paramount to a successful riding position, that only applies of course if the fitter is of a high standard and is respected.

Pseudonym

wiganwarriors wrote:

pseudonym i was not questioning your post everyone is entitled to an opinion and i do appreciate you have a plethora of experience but surely you cant deny getting a proper fit is paramount to a successful riding position, that only applies of course if the fitter is of a high standard and is respected.

I'm sure it helps and I have nothing against it. Having a good position on the bike is very important obviously, but I can't help thinking that the 'scientific' element of bike fitting is over-stated somewhat on these forums...it's almost as though it would be impossible to achieve a good riding position unless someone else decides it for you....

jgsi

Thsi is not even a generational question.. we've all done it.. asked around for some advice.
Difference is today there are quite a few people ready to part with a wedge of money to get some , well, let's be honest here, pretty much straightforward and commonsense advice.
OP is best off dipping his toe into the never ending 'fettling' of bike way of life... I've never stopped messing about with another 'big' idea, it just goes on.
Hope the OP has enough 'spanners' in the bag of spanners as I sort of read he is as yet newish to the world of tinkering.
Good luck and keep asking... don't be scared to make a balls up of it.. it's been done before and everything can be repaired!

ps I don't advocate spending all your bike fit monies on a top notch set of allen/ torx keys... but I'd be pretty tempted

garrynolan

Pseudonym wrote:

I'm sure Adrian is good, but for all we know this fella might live on the opposite side of the country, so telling him to get a bike fit there might be pretty pointless.

I don;t think the guy actually needs a bike fit and to be honest, most people seem to get by ok without one. For what it's worth, the position looks ok - bit high at the front maybe, but if you're not racing then it's probably not an issue...

On a slight aside to the original OP I once asked why people didn't put their location on the page. Got a lot of very unhelpful replies. This post shows how the location (even just County would do) can be useful. We don't all live in England...

richard36

lemoncurd wrote:

If you are comfortable on the road and not racing then a bike fit is a waste of time and money.

Looks fine to me, use one of the on-line fit calculators to check your set-up if in doubt.

Enjoy.

I wonder if I can pick up on the above quote without hijacking the thread.

I only have the one road bike and I'm looking to get another. I was thinking of getting a bike fit either before or after I buy the new bike.

I don't really have any issues with the set up of my present bike and assuming I have a general idea of what size frame to get for my second bike then are Lemoncurds words true? Or is it the case that even if I am comfortable on my existing bike and find a comfortable position on my new bike then could I still benefit from a bike fit?

Cheers

rick_chasey

Stretch out a little? Looks a bit cramped. < Total non-expert opinion.

John.T

Richard36 wrote:

I wonder if I can pick up on the above quote without hijacking the thread.
I only have the one road bike and I'm looking to get another. I was thinking of getting a bike fit either before or after I buy the new bike.
I don't really have any issues with the set up of my present bike and assuming I have a general idea of what size frame to get for my second bike then are Lemoncurds words true? Or is it the case that even if I am comfortable on my existing bike and find a comfortable position on my new bike then could I still benefit from a bike fit?
Cheers

Buy your new bike from a reputable shop and they should throw a bike-fit in as part of the deal. You don't have to stick with it if you find the old one more comfortable but do take some time to get used to it first.

lemoncurd

Richard36 wrote:

lemoncurd wrote:

If you are comfortable on the road and not racing then a bike fit is a waste of time and money.

Looks fine to me, use one of the on-line fit calculators to check your set-up if in doubt.

Enjoy.

I wonder if I can pick up on the above quote without hijacking the thread.

I only have the one road bike and I'm looking to get another. I was thinking of getting a bike fit either before or after I buy the new bike.

I don't really have any issues with the set up of my present bike and assuming I have a general idea of what size frame to get for my second bike then are Lemoncurds words true? Or is it the case that even if I am comfortable on my existing bike and find a comfortable position on my new bike then could I still benefit from a bike fit?

Cheers

I rarely write anything that makes sense, if you have the money and think that you'll gain something then go for it.

Personally I wouldn't - I'm comfortable on my bike over long distances, I'm not interested in tiny performance gains and have no intention of racing so do not need a more aerodynamic position. A couple of mates have had bike fits but they were looking for something, anything that would help improve their performance having tried everything else, they are no faster or more comfortable than they were before the fit as they'd been refining their position over many years.

If anyone has a convincing argument that would persuade me that it's worth it then I may be tempted but I doubt it.

napoleond

I had knee pain when riding no matter what I did with my position.
I went to see my fitter who identified a leg length discrepancy as well as trackIng issues.
I had moulded footbeds made first (which are fantastic) and through use of shims to account for the leg length difference and angled so that my legs tracked straight.
Coupled with the correct saddle/bar position this was a revelation.
No niggles at all, bike handled better and I saw an increase in power of 12-15watts at functional threshold after a week of getting used to it.
I would recommend having a fit to anyone from beginner to pro. (indeed the person I use does have pros in)

richard36

I suppose lemoncurd's argument makes sense - if he is comfortable on the bike then why have a bike fitting - but equally I can see the sense in what Nap is saying. Is cycling similar to swimming in that you can be a reasonable front crawl swimmer and manage to bang out the lengths without too much problem or pain and then someone comes along and identifies one or two problems with your swimming technique which when corrected mean you are swimming much better. Is that true of a bike fit? It may identify a problem that may not have caused any pain or real problem but when corrected means you are riding so much better.

Evil Laugh

Richard36 wrote:

lemoncurd wrote:

If you are comfortable on the road and not racing then a bike fit is a waste of time and money.

Looks fine to me, use one of the on-line fit calculators to check your set-up if in doubt.

Enjoy.

I wonder if I can pick up on the above quote without hijacking the thread.

I only have the one road bike and I'm looking to get another. I was thinking of getting a bike fit either before or after I buy the new bike.

I don't really have any issues with the set up of my present bike and assuming I have a general idea of what size frame to get for my second bike then are Lemoncurds words true? Or is it the case that even if I am comfortable on my existing bike and find a comfortable position on my new bike then could I still benefit from a bike fit?

Cheers

Ok I can comment on this from my perspective only I guess but...

Points from Lemon curd I 50% sort of agree and 50% disagree.

If you think you are comfortable on the bike then I agree you have no need to get a fit. That's not to say that one would not be beneficial or would be a waste of money. So sort of agree.

I got a fit done for 2 reasons. 1) I was about to dump a large sum of cash (for me at least) on a new frame available in tiny size increments and wanted to be sure I was getting the right one not influenced by a shop's opinions or inventory. 2) I was about to embark on a 1000 mile cycling holiday and thought it couldn't hurt to check everything over.

I was quite happy with my fit at the point of booking and would have happily gone away without one. My saddle etc only moved a few mm but my cleats were shifted back maybe 10mm and a bit of a heel wedge in one foot. For starters my balance on the bike was way better both in and out of saddle (weight shifted forward, losing less stability through ankle flex?) and more power for sure. Most importantly niggles that I didn't realise I had or had dismissed as effects of "a long day in the saddle" just disappeared. No more fidgeting on the saddle for position, in fact I stopped noticing my saddle at all. Bike just felt amazing and this was tested over long days one after another all types of riding and terrain. The only issue I pulled up was a preference to change the ratio of stem length and bar reach to give me better climbing stability but not sure this is a fit issue as such, more handling preferences.

I was surprised but really happy with the results. To this day would definitely say it's the best cycling related money (£180) I spent, way more bang for buck than any bit of gear and wish I had done it the first week I bought a roadbike.


Secondly back to Lemoncurds points, I don't see what racing has to do with it, a long distance cyclist of any sort is as likely if not more to benefit from a good fit. Long and hard is when issues start to raise their ugly heads and as above I'd imagine a lot of rectifiable aches and pains get dismissed as effects of a long ride.


Re online fit calculators, nobody I know including myself has ever gotten anywhere near an optimal fit using one. I'd say they are a starting point at best, not a means of refining a position. So disagree there.


Re JGSIs point above. Yeah any one of us could get the same results (in theory) doing this ourselves for sure, no question. But it's a question of time vs quality vs cost. My fitting took about 3.5 hrs. I'd already spent a good number of hours trying to sort things out myself but let's say the person involved is a beginner. If any anyone thinks they could research the necessary theories and methods needed and apply all changes to bike and shoes and do as good a job in just 3.5 hours they'd be dreaming. You'd probably be talking well into double figures and with no guarantees you get it right. Some people will likely cause themselves more harm than good.

Think of it like fitting a kitchen for e.g. We can all go to ikea/plumbase etc, buy a kitchen, check some online tutorials and fit it ourselves. Some of us will be more DIY focused and will do a pretty good job. Will it be as nicely fitted as using a quality kitchen fitter that does it every day of his life? Doubt it but if it is will it have been done as quickly? Doubt that too. What you're paying for with any good trade is quality, convenience, expertise, experience, speed and a satisfaction guarantee.

Just to clarify I'm talking about a quality fitting where you are seen on the bike, on a turbo, legs/feet whatever corrected, cleats set and bike set up. Not a shop telling you what size to buy by meauring your shoulders and inseam.

While I think some guys and shops are just out there to fleece you of your cash and flatter you with technology there are people out there like Scherrit @ Bike Whisperer and by accounts of his feedback this Adrian dude who are just doing a really good job. Scherrit for one will promise to stick with you until the fit is sorted. Indeed my missus went to see him and her knee and back pain was cured instantly and remained great throughout our trip and her 25 mile/day commute. 4 months after for whatever reason she started to get a bit of a twinge in her knee again and he sorted it out no questions asked.

wishitwasallflat

Nice post Evil-laugh - well considered and expressed and I found it very helpful.

When I bought my bike I asked about a fit as I thought I was between sizes. The lad in the shop (Specialized Concept Store Harrogate) did the standard BGFit (free if you but a bike £40 if not) as a starter and found me square in the middle of the range for a size. The guy who does the full fits (£130 I think included trubo 3d analysis etc) checked the result, watched me on the bike, said he thought maybe my cleats were a bit too far back but said it looked fine and advised me to ride the bike for a few months and just come back for the full fit if I had problems. Now I am pretty comfortable on the bike - I put my aches and pains down to being old and fat! That said I did correct two types of knee pain by making tiny adjustments to cleats (following this site - http://www.cptips.com/knee.htm) so +1 for can't say I really need it but if I had £130 to spare I bet I would benefit from it. And highly reccomend the store

richard36

Evil Laugh - that's a great post thanks.

I have a road bike which I am fairly comfortable on. I also want to buy a new bike. What I propose to do is ring Adrian Timmis and give him some sizes over the phone and he can then advise me which size frame to get. When I have the bike I will take both to him and get a proper fitting on both and then I should be sorted.

Evil Laugh

Richard36 - my personal view on your situation (best thing is to ask Adrian) is if you are planning to do the fit anyway, do it first on your current bike and ride it for a couple of months, give yourself time to adjust (as this can take a few weeks) and for him to iron out any niggles. Basically make absolutely sure you are bang on and then choose the frame.

You're then in a position to make the best choice possible as Adrian should be able to tell you stuff like what length stem, bars, spacer stack etc you would need to maintain your position on different size/brand frames and you can pick the one that best suits your needs and preferences, may be you end up looking at something you're not considering now, as you'd get such a good fit on it.

I don't know about his services but the guy I used would then transfer the fit to the new bike for I think was £50 or something off the top of my head.