Racing standards for a beginner

Tom Dean

okgo wrote:

Jamie Pine 4th - 1st in a year and is winning e123 crits week in week out. Was a rower apparently.

It's all possible if you just go for it.

Yes I didn't say it was impossible. Already being an elite endurance athlete will be an advantage.

okgo

Of course. I've not done anything sporting for the few years before cycling. Weightlifting mostly. But before that I had one of the most sporting childhoods anyone could have. So maybe that set me up, I doubt it

Tom Butcher

There's more than one way to train and be successful (or unsuccessful) - but I think it's fair to say the majority of competitive cyclists do apply some kind of periodisation to their training whereby they do less high intensity over winter - and some of those at least do enjoy success with that method. The main thing is to have some kind of plan - however rough - whereby your training is at least tailored to your goals and has some sort of progression in there as the idea is to get fitter by you main targets.

jibberjim

Tom Dean wrote:

The fact that you performed similarly in every race does not suggest you improved much over the season.

So you're suggesting 4th cat races are the same as 2nd cat ones?

jibberjim wrote:

Presumably you have seen some drop off in your numbers over the course of 3.5 years?

Only since reducing my training, indeed a couple of months after a reduction of training my power numbers dropped. There's been no other cyclic reduction or anything.

Tom Dean wrote:

I am not criticising anyones training! Just saying not many would see continuous improvement over the course of a 9 month racing season.

But you're not saying why they wouldn't - if it's 'cos they can't be bothered with an entire season of chipper races, or because they don't bother/don't have time to to train much when they're racing, then that's completely different to can't. All you appear to be saying is "coaches say..." particularly applying what professional athletes do and then compare it to 4th cat's.

Tom Dean

jibberjim wrote:

So you're suggesting 4th cat races are the same as 2nd cat ones?

nope (your original statement makes sense now)

jibberjim wrote:

Only since reducing my training, indeed a couple of months after a reduction of training my power numbers dropped. There's been no other cyclic reduction or anything.

So you see consistent improvement except when you reduce your training, for example, you back off after the end of the season and rebuild. I don't see how this contradicts what I was saying.

jibberjim wrote:

But you're not saying why they wouldn't - if it's 'cos they can't be bothered with an entire season of chipper races, or because they don't bother/don't have time to to train much when they're racing, then that's completely different to can't. All you appear to be saying is "coaches say..." particularly applying what professional athletes do and then compare it to 4th cat's.

I wouldn't take a hard line on 'can't be bothered'! Training hard and racing are hard, and on top of other stresses, most of us need a break at some point.
I am only speaking from my own (limited) experience and from what I have read. Show me a coach that does not advocate structure. I have not said anything about how the pro's train.

Herbsman

Aside from all the arguments, I'd say not to bother starting racing. Racing is daft. All it is is pedaling a bike fast. Why don't they all just stop attacking, slow down and relax? Racing on bikes is the most pointless and childish thing I have ever come across... pedaling bikes around a circuit FFS what is the point?!

DavidJB

Herbsman wrote:

Aside from all the arguments, I'd say not to bother starting racing. Racing is daft. All it is is pedaling a bike fast. Why don't they all just stop attacking, slow down and relax? Racing on bikes is the most pointless and childish thing I have ever come across... pedaling bikes around a circuit FFS what is the point?!

Why ride a bike at all. Cars are much faster, much more comfortable and make better sounds that some grown man in lycra making motorbike sounds with his lips...BRRRRRRRRRR....brbrbrbrbrbr...BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

All hail the car! It's the future.

Road Red

Thanks for the replies/information/debate everyone.

So the obvious conclusion is to sell the bikes, buy something like a souped up Fiesta, fit a roll cage and get myself down to Brands Hatch.

Or should I try karting first before graduating onto bigger things..............discuss!

Pseudonym

Road Red wrote:

Like an earlier poster I am also thinking of giving racing a go. However I have no idea what the required standard is for a beginner.

the required standard for a beginner is 'being a beginner' - it's almost impossible for anyone else to explain the variation of effort and intensity during an individual race - and each race is different anyway, so you won't know until you try...

greeny12

Pseudonym wrote:

Road Red wrote:

Like an earlier poster I am also thinking of giving racing a go. However I have no idea what the required standard is for a beginner.

the required standard for a beginner is 'being a beginner' - it's almost impossible for anyone else to explain the variation of effort and intensity during an individual race - and each race is different anyway, so you won't know until you try...

The wisest words said in the entire thread...

okgo

greeny12 wrote:

Pseudonym wrote:

Road Red wrote:

Like an earlier poster I am also thinking of giving racing a go. However I have no idea what the required standard is for a beginner.

the required standard for a beginner is 'being a beginner' - it's almost impossible for anyone else to explain the variation of effort and intensity during an individual race - and each race is different anyway, so you won't know until you try...

The wisest words said in the entire thread...

Yes and no, the overall average of all the races I've done have been within 1 mph of each other, but the fitness thing is something only you will know if you have when it comes to it. Personally I feel as fit as I've ever been, but I couldn't make a solo break stick with 5 laps to go, but in the pack I'm rarely out of breath in the slightest as the chap has said, you may never need to get in a break so you have all your energy for the sprint, OR you'll find yourself hanging out as you try to bridge accross. All part of the fun.

Someone commented on my blog that to make the racing more safe they should have prime sprints, because at the minute everyone has so much energy left at the end of the race that its not a strung out group its a huge bunch that are all raring for a sprint, and this makes it dangerous.

@Herbsman, I think you're being sarcastic? Surely?

Pseudonym

okgo wrote:

Yes and no, the overall average of all the races I've done have been within 1 mph of each other,

I know what you're getting at, but that doesn't mean all the races were the same though - it simply suggests that all the races covered a similar distance in a similar time. The hard part is what goes on in between...

Wrath Rob

Road Red, for something sensible, here's my first 4th cat race at Hillingdon. I finished in the pack, wasn't dropped but started to run out of gas in the last few laps and so wasn't able to get to the sharp end of the peleton to take part in the sprint. If you're confident you could work at a similar level for the race, you'll be fine. Find a club, get your license and go out and race

Herbsman

DavidJB wrote:

Why ride a bike at all. Cars are much faster, much more comfortable and make better sounds that some grown man in lycra making motorbike sounds with his lips...BRRRRRRRRRR....brbrbrbrbrbr...BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

All hail the car! It's the future.

Don't be silly