The offside rule

rick_chasey

Ben6899 wrote:

NGale wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

The player also has to be forward of the team mate making the pass. If he is level or behind then he is not offside.

Hence 'Forward of the second last defender' :roll:

No.

It's possible to be forward of all defenders and still on side when a pass is made. If both attacking players have "beaten the offside trap" and then the player with the ball - say - squares it back across the goal for his team mate, then the receiver is onside if he remains behind the passer.



EDIT: I just saw the debate between you and PBo. So thanks to PBo for explaining exactly what I was trying to get at and apologies to NGale for the rolly eyes I returned - now removed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sEk61PRlFs

Ben6899

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

NGale wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

The player also has to be forward of the team mate making the pass. If he is level or behind then he is not offside.

Hence 'Forward of the second last defender' :roll:

No.

It's possible to be forward of all defenders and still on side when a pass is made. If both attacking players have "beaten the offside trap" and then the player with the ball - say - squares it back across the goal for his team mate, then the receiver is onside if he remains behind the passer.



EDIT: I just saw the debate between you and PBo. So thanks to PBo for explaining exactly what I was trying to get at and apologies to NGale for the rolly eyes I returned - now removed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sEk61PRlFs

Is that a clip of Brian McClair and Paul Ince vs. Chelsea in the 1994 FA Cup final? Perfect example.

rick_chasey

Ben6899 wrote:

Is that a clip of Brian McClair and Paul Ince vs. Chelsea in the 1994 FA Cup final? Perfect example.

No, THAT Ajax Cruijff penalty.

Ben6899

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Is that a clip of Brian McClair and Paul Ince vs. Chelsea in the 1994 FA Cup final? Perfect example.

No, THAT Ajax Cruijff penalty.

Aah the one which Pires and Henry tried to emulate in yet another display of flagrant Gallic disrespect and arrogance? We're on the same wavelength.

tailwindhome

Ben6899 wrote:

Aah the one which Pires and Henry tried to emulate in yet another display of flagrant gaelic disrespect and arrogance? We're on the same wavelength.

You probably mean Gallic

I normally woudln't be so pedantic but no Gaelic person would want to be associated with that cheat.

UndercoverElephant

TailWindHome wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Aah the one which Pires and Henry tried to emulate in yet another display of flagrant gaelic disrespect and arrogance? We're on the same wavelength.

You probably mean Gallic

I normally woudln't be so pedantic but no Gaelic person would want to be associated with that cheat.

I'd be willing to bet that both Pires and Henry could find an Irish ancestor somewhere. Everyone else can.

Ben6899

TailWindHome wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Aah the one which Pires and Henry tried to emulate in yet another display of flagrant gaelic disrespect and arrogance? We're on the same wavelength.

You probably mean Gallic

I normally woudln't be so pedantic but no Gaelic person would want to be associated with that cheat.

Typo on my part. I apologise for any offence caused.

I've edited.

NGale

Ben6899 wrote:

NGale wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

The player also has to be forward of the team mate making the pass. If he is level or behind then he is not offside.

Hence 'Forward of the second last defender' :roll:

No.

It's possible to be forward of all defenders and still on side when a pass is made. If both attacking players have "beaten the offside trap" and then the player with the ball - say - squares it back across the goal for his team mate, then the receiver is onside if he remains behind the passer.



EDIT: I just saw the debate between you and PBo. So thanks to PBo for explaining exactly what I was trying to get at and apologies to NGale for the rolly eyes I returned - now removed.



I must say though, I find it hard to understand how a referee could not jump to what was being discussed - it's a common ocurrence in matches - what level do you referee at? And this isn't a dig, maybe the football isn't advanced depending what level. I also find it bizarre that club members are given more responsibility than simple ins and outs. Dangerous ground having some numpty in a tracksuit flagging offsides!

In mens football I referee local parks games on saturday afternoons, inter command matches for the Royal Navy (which would be supply level in civvy street) some inter squadron games for the RAF (where they want a netural, but forces register referee) and in womens football I do middles for Devon League, South West League and assistant for Womens Premier League.

Being female I hold two levels as a referee. In mens football, I'm a level 6 referee (have been for a few years due to injury a couple years ago and rubbish work patterns when I was working for the ambos) going for level 5 next season. In women's football I am a Level 3.

I too am not a fan of club linesmen, it leads to too many accusations of cheating by other teams which causes all end of problems. I have to say while the club linesmen I work with arn't the best in the world the vast majority of them are honest in their decisions and do the job out of the goodness of their heart to ensure the match goes ahead. I always feel a little sorry for them because being a club assistant is the hardest job on the day (tougher than mine!)

I would love neutral assistants every week, but the reality is there isn't enough referees to go around for every match as it is so neutral assistants won't happen unless there is a massive jump in the number of referees training and registering.

Ben6899

UndercoverElephant wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Aah the one which Pires and Henry tried to emulate in yet another display of flagrant gaelic disrespect and arrogance? We're on the same wavelength.

You probably mean Gallic

I normally woudln't be so pedantic but no Gaelic person would want to be associated with that cheat.

I'd be willing to bet that both Pires and Henry could find an Irish ancestor somewhere. Everyone else can.

Tony Cascarino. No way on this earth he'd have played international football for Italy.

Blacktemplar

Okay, we've done the easy offside stuff.... now can someone explain "offside" in Rugby Union

rick_chasey

Blacktemplar wrote:

Okay, we've done the easy offside stuff.... now can someone explain "offside" in Rugby Union

Standing ahead of the ball?

No idea, it's all a pile of muddy bodies to me.

CiB

Blacktemplar wrote:

Okay, we've done the easy offside stuff.... now can someone explain "offside" in Rugby Union

Easy.. You're offside when the ref blows up & shouts offside, at entirely random points throughout the match.

Ben6899

NGale wrote:

In mens football I referee local parks games on saturday afternoons, inter command matches for the Royal Navy (which would be supply level in civvy street) some inter squadron games for the RAF (where they want a netural, but forces register referee) and in womens football I do middles for Devon League, South West League and assistant for Womens Premier League.

Being female I hold two levels as a referee. In mens football, I'm a level 6 referee (have been for a few years due to injury a couple years ago and rubbish work patterns when I was working for the ambos) going for level 5 next season. In women's football I am a Level 3.

I too am not a fan of club linesmen, it leads to too many accusations of cheating by other teams which causes all end of problems. I have to say while the club linesmen I work with arn't the best in the world the vast majority of them are honest in their decisions and do the job out of the goodness of their heart to ensure the match goes ahead. I always feel a little sorry for them because being a club assistant is the hardest job on the day (tougher than mine!)

I would love neutral assistants every week, but the reality is there isn't enough referees to go around for every match as it is so neutral assistants won't happen unless there is a massive jump in the number of referees training and registering.

Good work. Referees are in short supply. Good ones even shorter!

Parks football explains everything, I'm used to three officials. But in my limited involvement with park Saturdays I do recall club linesmen being asked to only award ins and outs... because - frankly - most folk don't have a clue how the offside rule works!

sketchley

If you think the offside rule is complicated to understand. Try Rugby Union where there are multiple offside rules.

Here are some of them

Offside in General Play http://www.irblaws.com/EN/laws/3/11/section/law/ which has nine subsection to view

Plus these ones as well.

Offside at the ruck http://www.irblaws.com/EN/laws/4/16/150 ... clause_150
Offside at the maul http://www.irblaws.com/EN/laws/4/17/157 ... clause_157
Offside at the line out http://www.irblaws.com/EN/laws/5/19/188 ... clause_188
Offside when taking part in a line out http://www.irblaws.com/EN/laws/5/19/189 ... clause_189
Offside at the scrum http://www.irblaws.com/EN/laws/5/20/203 ... clause_203

Now add to all these that you can be in an offside position but if you being there has no effect on the game then your not offside and it gets very complicated very quickly. Football is easy in comparison.

NGale

Ben6899 wrote:

NGale wrote:

In mens football I referee local parks games on saturday afternoons, inter command matches for the Royal Navy (which would be supply level in civvy street) some inter squadron games for the RAF (where they want a netural, but forces register referee) and in womens football I do middles for Devon League, South West League and assistant for Womens Premier League.

Being female I hold two levels as a referee. In mens football, I'm a level 6 referee (have been for a few years due to injury a couple years ago and rubbish work patterns when I was working for the ambos) going for level 5 next season. In women's football I am a Level 3.

I too am not a fan of club linesmen, it leads to too many accusations of cheating by other teams which causes all end of problems. I have to say while the club linesmen I work with arn't the best in the world the vast majority of them are honest in their decisions and do the job out of the goodness of their heart to ensure the match goes ahead. I always feel a little sorry for them because being a club assistant is the hardest job on the day (tougher than mine!)

I would love neutral assistants every week, but the reality is there isn't enough referees to go around for every match as it is so neutral assistants won't happen unless there is a massive jump in the number of referees training and registering.

Good work. Referees are in short supply. Good ones even shorter!

Parks football explains everything, I'm used to three officials. But in my limited involvement with park Saturdays I do recall club linesmen being asked to only award ins and outs... because - frankly - most folk don't have a clue how the offside rule works!

My local league is a small one, so less than honest club linos are few and far between because clubs will soon get a bad reputation among others if they make the less than honest decisions and that isn't good for business.

I have only known one linesman make an obviously biased decision and I relieved him of his duties for it. Even his own club backed me up when he complained!



As for the offside rule in Rugby Union....who cares, it's egg chasing :roll:

Blacktemplar

CiB wrote:

Blacktemplar wrote:

Okay, we've done the easy offside stuff.... now can someone explain "offside" in Rugby Union

Easy.. You're offside when the ref blows up & shouts offside, at entirely random points throughout the match.

Too true. Especially if you're a 'Quins player at Franklin's Gardens

EKE_38BPM

Just to prevent this thread dropping off page 1, has anyone seen this

The Guardian wrote:

New 50p coin aimed at explaining offside law 'gets offside law wrong'
A new football-themed 50p coin designed to ease confusion around the offside law has been written off as "totally out of date" and "confusing" by refereeing experts.

The football coin – half a million of which are now in circulation – shows a midfielder about to pass to one of two team-mates, with the first player, on the left, marked as offside, and the second, level with the defender, not offside. But the diagram appears to illustrate the offside law as it was until 1995, when it was overhauled by the International FA Board to reduce the number of stoppages in matches.

The revision to the law meant that any player in an offside position when the ball is played is no longer automatically penalised. It states: "It is not an offence in itself to be in an offside position."

Instead, for the past 17 years assistant referees have been told to wait and see whether a player in an offside position becomes involved in active play, either by "interfering with play, or interfering with an opponent, or by gaining an advantage by being in that position". That means that if the midfielder on the coin passes to the striker on his left, but the striker chooses not to play the ball or interfere with an opponent, he is not offside and play continues.

Red faces at the Royal Mint, but how the hell are you supposed to show the current stupid state of the law with a coin?

PBo

all the discussion about interfering with play reminds me of the old Cloughie-ism.

"If he's not interfering with play, what's he doing on the pitch?".

I remember a strange instance of this coming back from an offside position stuff in a televised game a few years back.

Centre forward in the middle of the pitch, miles "offside", trotting back....lovely ball slung out to the wing for the onside winger to run onto to. No flag - which most of us probably at first reading think sounds fair. But the centre forward, seeing no flag, and by now behind the winger turns and makes a run into the box. Ball crossed - bang, Goal! BUT when the centre forward turned and ran to the box, he was still 2 or 3 yards behind the defenders, so had gained an unfair advantage from his offside position. goal stood though.....

EKE_38BPM

The current offside rule is a sham.
No-one can really say definitively what is on or offside anymore. Its all down to interpretation.

Go back to the good old days (pre 1995 I think) where everyone knew what was what.

el_presidente

EKE_38BPM wrote:

The current offside rule is a sham.
No-one can really say definitively what is on or offside anymore. Its all down to interpretation.

Go back to the good old days (pre 1995 I think) where everyone knew what was what.

Yes good point, no-one ever argued about offside prior to 1995 :roll:

EKE_38BPM

el_presidente wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

The current offside rule is a sham.
No-one can really say definitively what is on or offside anymore. Its all down to interpretation.

Go back to the good old days (pre 1995 I think) where everyone knew what was what.

Yes good point, no-one ever argued about offside prior to 1995 :roll:

But that was generally about timing. Mistakes were still made, but those types of mistakes are still made now as well as the errors in interpretation.
Now its often about being 'active' and 'interferring with play' which is subjective and no-one like it. Players, fans or refs (I assume).