The offside rule

walkingbootweather

I'll explain it to you but it will cost you 50p

NGale

A player is in an offiside position when he is forward of the second last defender at the time the ball is passed.

A player cannot be penalised for being offside when he is receiving the ball from a Corner kick, goal kick or a throw in.

In interrupting the offside offence the assistant referee must consider if the offside player was actively involved in play, gaining an advantage or interfering with the goal keeper (NO! not in that sense!)

As a side note, a player can be penalised for being offside if his foot, head or chest is forward of the last defender.

walkingbootweather

NGale - you're a burd and not supposed to understand this sort of stuff [/sexism comments]

Pretty fair description though. I'm sure you can be offside from a goal kick though (unless you are in your own half when ball kicked)

NGale

walkingbootweather wrote:

NGale - you're a burd and not supposed to understand this sort of stuff [/sexism comments]

Pretty fair description though. I'm sure you can be offside from a goal kick though (unless you are in your own half when ball kicked)

Yep the other one I didn't put in was that you cannot be offside if you are in your own half. It's a bugger judging the close ones on the half way line mind!

Nope you cannot be called offside from a goal kick if the ball is received directly from the goal kick.

Fifa actually have a 20 page document just on law 11 and the clarifications :shock:

essex-commuter

walkingbootweather wrote:

[/sexism comments]

Offside rule explanation for Girls:



You're in a shoe shop, second in the queue for the till. Behind
the shop assistant on the till is a pair of shoes which you have seen and
which you must have.

The female shopper in front of you has seen them also and is
eyeing them with desire.
Both of you have forgotten your purses.
It would be totally rude to push in front of the first woman if
you had no money to pay for the shoes.

The shop assistant remains at the till waiting.
Your friend is trying on another pair of shoes at the back of
the shop and sees your dilemma.

She prepares to throw her purse to you.
If she does so, you can catch the purse, then walk round the
other shopper and buy the shoes.

At a pinch she could throw the purse ahead of the other shopper
and, *whilst it is in flight* you could nip around the other shopper, catch
the purse and buy the shoes.

Always remembering that until the purse had *actually been
thrown* it would be plain wrong to be forward of the other shopper.


But if there is another friend casually leaning
against the counter are they interfering with the purchase?

Ben6899

The player also has to be forward of the team mate making the pass. If he is level or behind then he is not offside.

NGale

Ben6899 wrote:

The player also has to be forward of the team mate making the pass. If he is level or behind then he is not offside.

Hence 'Forward of the second last defender' :roll:

EKE_38BPM

I remember Thierry Henry being judged offside when he put a through-ball for someone else who was offside so didn't go for the ball. Henry then ran past the last defender and collected his own through-ball and was astonished to be judged offside after putting the ball in the back of the net.

I assume that you shouldn't be offside if you are the furthest player forward, ahead of the last defender, passing the ball forward to A. N. Other and then collect the ball yourself.

lostboysaint

All failed.

There is no offside rule. It's a law!

NGale

EKE_38BPM wrote:

I remember Thierry Henry being judged offside when he put a through-ball for someone else who was offside so didn't go for the ball. Henry then ran past the last defender and collected his own through-ball and was astonished to be judged offside after putting the ball in the back of the net.

I assume that you shouldn't be offside if you are the furthest player forward, ahead of the last defender, passing the ball forward to A. N. Other and then collect the ball yourself.

would have to see the incident to be able to judge it fully for myself but sounds like a case of the assistant referee going a little too early on the flag and the referee backing him up for the sake of continuity.

Assistant Referees usually work with the instruction of 'wait a second' to make the decision. Better slightly late than early and incorrect.

UndercoverElephant

NGale - At what point are you going to let them know that you're a referee and know the rules waaaay better than they do?

NGale

lostboysaint wrote:

All failed.

There is no offside rule. It's a law!

Law 11

NGale

UndercoverElephant wrote:

NGale - At what point are you going to let them know that you're a referee and know the rules waaaay better than they do?

I thought about leaving it a bit longer

PBo

NGale wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

The player also has to be forward of the team mate making the pass. If he is level or behind then he is not offside.

Hence 'Forward of the second last defender' :roll:

Think you are being a touch snotty with the rolling eyes. It is possible to be forward of the second last defender, but not offside - because you are level or behind your team mate! Just as ben6899 said!

PBo

essex-commuter wrote:

walkingbootweather wrote:

[/sexism comments]

Offside rule explanation for Girls:



You're in a shoe shop, second in the queue for the till. Behind
the shop assistant on the till is a pair of shoes which you have seen and
which you must have.

The female shopper in front of you has seen them also and is
eyeing them with desire.
Both of you have forgotten your purses.
It would be totally rude to push in front of the first woman if
you had no money to pay for the shoes.

The shop assistant remains at the till waiting.
Your friend is trying on another pair of shoes at the back of
the shop and sees your dilemma.

She prepares to throw her purse to you.
If she does so, you can catch the purse, then walk round the
other shopper and buy the shoes.

At a pinch she could throw the purse ahead of the other shopper
and, *whilst it is in flight* you could nip around the other shopper, catch
the purse and buy the shoes.

Always remembering that until the purse had *actually been
thrown* it would be plain wrong to be forward of the other shopper.


But if there is another friend casually leaning
against the counter are they interfering with the purchase?

Well if she buys them I'll kill the b1tch! I saw them first!

tailwindhome

NGale wrote:

UndercoverElephant wrote:

NGale - At what point are you going to let them know that you're a referee and know the rules waaaay better than they do?

I thought about leaving it a bit longer

Wish you had kept quiet there UE. I was starting to enjoy this thread.....



Reminds me of the incident in the world cup (?) when the goal was disallowed as the player lying off the pitch was judged to be offside. Even when the referee was proven correct the ITV pundits (Strachan IIRC) insisted that FIFA had dug up a rule to prove the referee right rather than just admit they didn't know the rules...

NGale

PBo wrote:

NGale wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

The player also has to be forward of the team mate making the pass. If he is level or behind then he is not offside.

Hence 'Forward of the second last defender' :roll:

Think you are being a touch snotty with the rolling eyes. It is possible to be forward of the second last defender, but not offside - because you are level or behind your team mate! Just as ben6899 said!

If you are forward of the second last defender team mate, but the ball isn't then two players will be off side. If Ben had said the ball was forward as well then law 11 would not come into play at all.

If I were to be literal and mechanical about the possibility then I would say that it could not happen. No two players could be level at exactly the same time as that would require both players to be running at the same velocity, with, for example, both right feet hitting the ground at the same time. Something which we know in reality couldn't happen, therefore if one player passed the ball at just the wrong moment, the other player would have a foot forward at the moment of passing, thus making him active in play and offside in the fact of law 11 so could be penalised.

However no assistant referee is going to be able to pick that one up at that speed and have any credibility in calling it. So will they get away with it. Yes, because no one (unless they have motion capture technology) will even see it.

Stevo_666

essex-commuter wrote:

walkingbootweather wrote:

[/sexism comments]

Offside rule explanation for Girls:



You're in a shoe shop, second in the queue for the till. Behind
the shop assistant on the till is a pair of shoes which you have seen and
which you must have.

The female shopper in front of you has seen them also and is
eyeing them with desire.
Both of you have forgotten your purses.
It would be totally rude to push in front of the first woman if
you had no money to pay for the shoes.

The shop assistant remains at the till waiting.
Your friend is trying on another pair of shoes at the back of
the shop and sees your dilemma.

She prepares to throw her purse to you.
If she does so, you can catch the purse, then walk round the
other shopper and buy the shoes.

At a pinch she could throw the purse ahead of the other shopper
and, *whilst it is in flight* you could nip around the other shopper, catch
the purse and buy the shoes.

Always remembering that until the purse had *actually been
thrown* it would be plain wrong to be forward of the other shopper.


But if there is another friend casually leaning
against the counter are they interfering with the purchase?

Brilliant

There is a case here for giving 50p to every woman in the country for educational purposes (NGale excepted) ;-)

PBo

NGale wrote:

PBo wrote:

NGale wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

The player also has to be forward of the team mate making the pass. If he is level or behind then he is not offside.

Hence 'Forward of the second last defender' :roll:

Think you are being a touch snotty with the rolling eyes. It is possible to be forward of the second last defender, but not offside - because you are level or behind your team mate! Just as ben6899 said!

If you are forward of the second last defender team mate, but the ball isn't then two players will be off side. If Ben had said the ball was forward as well then law 11 would not come into play at all.

If I were to be literal and mechanical about the possibility then I would say that it could not happen. No two players could be level at exactly the same time as that would require both players to be running at the same velocity, with, for example, both right feet hitting the ground at the same time. Something which we know in reality couldn't happen, therefore if one player passed the ball at just the wrong moment, the other player would have a foot forward at the moment of passing, thus making him active in play and offside in the fact of law 11 so could be penalised.

However no assistant referee is going to be able to pick that one up at that speed and have any credibility in calling it. So will they get away with it. Yes, because no one (unless they have motion capture technology) will even see it.

Please read Ben's quote again -"the team mate making the pass" . So to make the pass, he must have the ball. and ben is saying that if you are level or behind him you can't be offside. you rolled your eyes and started talking about defenders. I pointed out that defenders are irrelevant if you are behind your teammate with the ball. I can tell from your first post you are a ref and know the rules - this isn't a rules debate, this is a comprehension issue - I believe you have misinterpreted Ben.

spen666

NGale wrote:

....
As a side note, a player can be penalised for being offside if his foot, head or chest is forward of the last defender.

Only if the whole of his body is beyond the last defender surely?

rick_chasey

It's a myth that it's difficult to understand.

People saying "don't understand offside rule" = making a point that they don't like football, not that they don't understand.

NGale

PBo wrote:

NGale wrote:

PBo wrote:

NGale wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

The player also has to be forward of the team mate making the pass. If he is level or behind then he is not offside.

Hence 'Forward of the second last defender' :roll:

Think you are being a touch snotty with the rolling eyes. It is possible to be forward of the second last defender, but not offside - because you are level or behind your team mate! Just as ben6899 said!

If you are forward of the second last defender team mate, but the ball isn't then two players will be off side. If Ben had said the ball was forward as well then law 11 would not come into play at all.

If I were to be literal and mechanical about the possibility then I would say that it could not happen. No two players could be level at exactly the same time as that would require both players to be running at the same velocity, with, for example, both right feet hitting the ground at the same time. Something which we know in reality couldn't happen, therefore if one player passed the ball at just the wrong moment, the other player would have a foot forward at the moment of passing, thus making him active in play and offside in the fact of law 11 so could be penalised.

However no assistant referee is going to be able to pick that one up at that speed and have any credibility in calling it. So will they get away with it. Yes, because no one (unless they have motion capture technology) will even see it.

Please read Ben's quote again -"the team mate making the pass" . So to make the pass, he must have the ball. and ben is saying that if you are level or behind him you can't be offside. you rolled your eyes and started talking about defenders. I pointed out that defenders are irrelevant if you are behind your teammate with the ball. I can tell from your first post you are a ref and know the rules - this isn't a rules debate, this is a comprehension issue - I believe you have misinterpreted Ben.

Fair enough a misreading of what was said there

I would say however 'being level' Is very subjective according the the assistant referee on the day. I have seen assistants call an offside when everyone else considered the player to be level, but on reflection and in the case of TV replays the assistant has proven to be spot on and the player had a foot forward calling him offside.

The offside law is frankly a bugger when it comes to interpretation. I don't always get it right (in fact on Saturday, I know I backed up a club assistant referee with an incorrect offside call, but I backed him up regardless. A chat with him afterwards about the incident he realised he had got it wrong as he had interpreted it wrongly...he was thankful for the back up though and it saved him a lot of hassle from the opposition)

I have sat in Referees Association meetings and listened to referees with years worth of experience arguing over the offside and what is and isn't offside. One meeting saw two old guys very nearly come to blows...which was quite funny for the rest of us watching.

NGale

Rick Chasey wrote:

It's a myth that it's difficult to understand.

People saying "don't understand offside rule" = making a point that they don't like football, not that they don't understand.

Jake admits he doesn't like football (even though he's quite a good player) but he really doesn't understand the offside law. A man who can understand the games of Cricket, Rugby Union, Fives and understand complex equations really should understand the Offside

I'm stupid and I understand the offside law

rick_chasey

NGale wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

It's a myth that it's difficult to understand.

People saying "don't understand offside rule" = making a point that they don't like football, not that they don't understand.

Jake admits he doesn't like football (even though he's quite a good player) but he really doesn't understand the offside law. A man who can understand the games of Cricket, Rugby Union, Fives and understand complex equations really should understand the Offside

I'm stupid and I understand the offside law

He must REALLY want to make the point he doesn't like football.

PBo

NGale wrote:

PBo wrote:

NGale wrote:

PBo wrote:

NGale wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

The player also has to be forward of the team mate making the pass. If he is level or behind then he is not offside.

Hence 'Forward of the second last defender' :roll:

Think you are being a touch snotty with the rolling eyes. It is possible to be forward of the second last defender, but not offside - because you are level or behind your team mate! Just as ben6899 said!

If you are forward of the second last defender team mate, but the ball isn't then two players will be off side. If Ben had said the ball was forward as well then law 11 would not come into play at all.

If I were to be literal and mechanical about the possibility then I would say that it could not happen. No two players could be level at exactly the same time as that would require both players to be running at the same velocity, with, for example, both right feet hitting the ground at the same time. Something which we know in reality couldn't happen, therefore if one player passed the ball at just the wrong moment, the other player would have a foot forward at the moment of passing, thus making him active in play and offside in the fact of law 11 so could be penalised.

However no assistant referee is going to be able to pick that one up at that speed and have any credibility in calling it. So will they get away with it. Yes, because no one (unless they have motion capture technology) will even see it.

Please read Ben's quote again -"the team mate making the pass" . So to make the pass, he must have the ball. and ben is saying that if you are level or behind him you can't be offside. you rolled your eyes and started talking about defenders. I pointed out that defenders are irrelevant if you are behind your teammate with the ball. I can tell from your first post you are a ref and know the rules - this isn't a rules debate, this is a comprehension issue - I believe you have misinterpreted Ben.

Fair enough a misreading of what was said there

I would say however 'being level' Is very subjective according the the assistant referee on the day. I have seen assistants call an offside when everyone else considered the player to be level, but on reflection and in the case of TV replays the assistant has proven to be spot on and the player had a foot forward calling him offside.

The offside law is frankly a bugger when it comes to interpretation. I don't always get it right (in fact on Saturday, I know I backed up a club assistant referee with an incorrect offside call, but I backed him up regardless. A chat with him afterwards about the incident he realised he had got it wrong as he had interpreted it wrongly...he was thankful for the back up though and it saved him a lot of hassle from the opposition)

I have sat in Referees Association meetings and listened to referees with years worth of experience arguing over the offside and what is and isn't offside. One meeting saw two old guys very nearly come to blows...which was quite funny for the rest of us watching.

I think that here lies the nub.......the rule is simple - but applying a static description ("level") to a situation that is usually dynamic (players moving at different speeds/directions) makes interpretation difficult. Particularly when one takes into account the difficulty in being able to judge two moments exactly, (ball being played/relative position of 2nd last defender v forward) which could be some distance apart......

cjcp

@NGale - OT, but where do you stand on the use of tasers by refs on unruly or disobedient players? Do you think they'd be a good deterent to such behaviour because most other things have failed e.g. if the players saw you walking on the pitch clearing holstering a taser, do you think they'd behave a bit more appropriately?

NGale

Rick Chasey wrote:

NGale wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

It's a myth that it's difficult to understand.

People saying "don't understand offside rule" = making a point that they don't like football, not that they don't understand.

Jake admits he doesn't like football (even though he's quite a good player) but he really doesn't understand the offside law. A man who can understand the games of Cricket, Rugby Union, Fives and understand complex equations really should understand the Offside

I'm stupid and I understand the offside law

He must REALLY want to make the point he doesn't like football.

I have refereed him once in a 'friendly' game of the local rugby club v the local football club. I cautioned him for dissent......twice! early bath for him and a cold shoulder for me that night

NGale

cjcp wrote:

@NGale - OT, but where do you stand on the use of tasers by refs on unruly or disobedient players? Do you think they'd be a good deterent to such behaviour because most other things have failed e.g. if the players saw you walking on the pitch clearing holstering a taser, do you think they'd behave a bit more appropriately?

sounds like a fecking epic idea to me

although I'm leaning more towards the idea of fully loaded SA80 just for effect

SimonAH

One of my dogs has it's own interpretation of the offside rule. It simply always wants to be on the other side of any given closed door. Drives me bonkers :-D

CyclingBantam

I think the law itself is very, very simple. Where the problem lies is when to enforce the law and that, through watching live football each week, is where the referees themselves don't understand it (And do be quite clear, I don't blame them as nobody else understands it eaither).

When a ball is played through, because of the way the law has changed over recent years, there is no clarity over what is classed as interfearing with play and also, when you become active again. As soon as you go back 'onside' can you join in despite the fact you may have used it to your advantage.

It was a law that seemed to work about 10 years go but the tweaks/clarification made my FIFA over recent years put is in a position that players etc openly admit they don't understand the rule!

Ben6899

NGale wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

The player also has to be forward of the team mate making the pass. If he is level or behind then he is not offside.

Hence 'Forward of the second last defender' :roll:

No.

It's possible to be forward of all defenders and still on side when a pass is made. If both attacking players have "beaten the offside trap" and then the player with the ball - say - squares it back across the goal for his team mate, then the receiver is onside if he remains behind the passer.



EDIT: I just saw the debate between you and PBo. So thanks to PBo for explaining exactly what I was trying to get at and apologies to NGale for the rolly eyes I returned - now removed.



I must say though, I find it hard to understand how a referee could not jump to what was being discussed - it's a common ocurrence in matches - what level do you referee at? And this isn't a dig, maybe the football isn't advanced depending what level. I also find it bizarre that club members are given more responsibility than simple ins and outs. Dangerous ground having some numpty in a tracksuit flagging offsides!