Motor Insurers Bureau

spasypaddy

Anyone dealt with these guys before? could do with some advice

Pufftmw

My wife is a PI solicitor & has(is) dealing with them on a regular basis. Have you got a solicitor yourself? Or trying to deal direct?

spasypaddy

i had a solicitor but they told me it was easier to do it myself due to the high costs and the low work involved.

ive had a letter of an offer but i think its laughably low so not entirely sure what to do

Pufftmw

Surprised at your solicitor - is liability an issue?

spasypaddy

no he was just honest, he said i could call him back when i got my offer and he would advise what to do. however it being the week it is hasnt had a chance to call me back and i dont want to hassle him as hes doing me a favour.

he was going to take 30% of the claim and to claim from them is a very simple online form that took me 10mins to fill in.

Pufftmw

All I would say in that case is don't accept their offer and go back with a reasoned argument why. Also gently point out that you are not employing the services of an expensive solicitor in order to keep their costs down but if you don't receive a satisfactory offer then you will get them involved.

spasypaddy

damn this is where having a solicitor would be so much better

you couldnt ask your better half how much a whiplash case should expect to receive from the MiB so that i have some idea of whether they have been reasonable and its me being greedy or not

Pufftmw

There's no "expected" level but depending on severity between £1500 - £5000 would be the norm. The lower figure is more likely for a whiplash that has discomfort only for a short period of time & there would have to be quite major discomfort and long term issues for it to raise up significantly.

She is no longer my better half but we've not got round to divorcing yet!

optimisticbiker

spasypaddy wrote:

damn this is where having a solicitor would be so much better

you couldnt ask your better half how much a whiplash case should expect to receive from the MiB so that i have some idea of whether they have been reasonable and its me being greedy or not

What are they offering?

When I had a small car on car incident my insurers paid out £2500 for whiplash to the passenger in the other car even tho there was no evidence...

Aviva paid out £1200 for personal injury on a left hooking - some soft tissue damage (e.g. bruising and a graze)

Having said that, a friend who just had her £3000 van written off by a rear shunt was offered £250 for personal injury even tho she was off work for a week with a locked neck and whiplash... she is, of course, contesting it...

Pufftmw

It being the MiB should not affect the amount you receive although like all insurers they will look to pay out no more than is necessary (or can get away with!)

spasypaddy

sorry to hear that puff (foot mouth)

Optimistic biker - they are offering right at the bottom end of the scale (just a tad more than the £1500 that puff mentions). they wont even cover me for my physio treatment, replacement of clothing, loss of working days. now dont get me wrong im not a money grabber but if im going to do it i want to do it properly and get as much as i deserve.

accident was in august and even now im still in pain, and i imagine i will be for many more months to come.

i got alot more than 5k a few years back for an injury to my knee but i sued the guy rather than the MiB and i had a no win no fee solicitor involved. that was 4 years ago so id have thought payouts would have been bigger now

alfablue

Back in 1993 I was hit in my car by an uninsured "travellers" bus. My car insurance came with legal protection insurance, they appointed a solicitor who dealt with the MIB on my behalf. It took about a year, I was sent to see a consultant orthopaedic surgeon at a private hospital, he said I had whiplash and was likely to suffer with limitations in the long term (I couldn't rotate my head so far to the left).

MIB offered £3k, solicitor said don't take it, 3 weeks later they offered £4k, I accepted and got it in full (solicitor got his fees from the insurance). That seemed a lot of money in '94 but nowI still have problems (especially anumbness in my left arm when riding on the drops for any length of time) and it doesn't seem so great now, but I would have thought the injury would have received a fair bit more, today, 18 years later.

As said above, MIB will try to settle as low as possible, so a well evidenced and robustly argued case is likely to gain more. The online forms do look easy, but I would guess a claim unsupported by a solicitor may encourage a lower offer. You may also be at a disadvantage if you haven't had full and credible medical evidence supplied.

Even if you go it alone, I see no harm in being persistent and pushing for more, they aren't going to retract any offer they have already made.

spasypaddy

i did have an independent medical review done i was sent there by the MiB. I have no idea how to write a letter back demanding more money though

i also cant type MiB without thinking of this:

alfablue

Pufftmw wrote:

There's no "expected" level but depending on severity between £1500 - £5000 would be the norm. The lower figure is more likely for a whiplash that has discomfort only for a short period of time & there would have to be quite major discomfort and long term issues for it to raise up significantly.

The problem with this is that you wont really know at the point of your claim whether you will have long term problems or not. My Orthop surgeon said it was possible and I might need physio or other treatment in years to come (I presume he is well versed on the clinical evidence concerning whiplash). I thought the injury was trivial at the time, seemed like free money. As I have got older I have suffered quite a lot (as explained above), I have also had some episodes of my neck locking up, not nice.

Pufftmw

Its a first offer. Detail your losses in a spreadsheet, along with receipts (a schedule of loss) then ask for £5k general damages (pain suffering). Give them 2 weeks to respond or advise them than you will issue a claim against them in the magistrates court (£5k limit for a simple claim but with max £1k personal injury). Claims above £5k (or PI above £1k) are Fast Track Cases upto £15K - a bit more complicated and there is the danger of costs of the other side if you lose the case.

Also, in your schedule, try & get a letter from your physio detailing your condition, what steps they have taken, what steps & how long will still need to be taken, together with costs for the same. You may have to pay for that - include that expense in the schedule. In fact, detail any and all (reasonable) costs and losses associated with this claim.

At the end of the day, you need to be seen to be being reasonable and not over-egging. They won't want to go to court on something like this where liability is not in question and faced with a full schedule of loss they will find it harder to not give you a figure nearer the schedule - as long as it is accurate and reasonable.

Don't worry about the wife, some years ago and we're both amicable about it - in fact so amicable that she and my g/friend get on really well!

spasypaddy

the issue with the physio is that i have private medical insurance and they are saying because i had it paid for by them they aren't going to pay out for it. however private medical insurance contracts states that if you get a payout for an injury that they have treated you have to pay them back (fair enough).

I already gave them the schedule, im not still receiving treatment.

Im not even bothered about the replacement of clothing (i havent actually replaced it because it was summer wear and i had enough to just avoid using it and didnt have the spare cash to buy some more stuff). The helmet was expensive (specialized sworks 2d). Bike had minimal damage and because i work at a bike shop part time i got it fixed for free (Well a can of coke for the mechanic).

spen666

Pufftmw wrote:

Its a first offer. Detail your losses in a spreadsheet, along with receipts (a schedule of loss) then ask for £5k general damages (pain suffering). Give them 2 weeks to respond or advise them than you will issue a claim against them in the magistrates court (£5k limit for a simple claim but with max £1k personal injury). Claims above £5k (or PI above £1k) are Fast Track Cases upto £15K - a bit more complicated and there is the danger of costs of the other side if you lose the case.

Also, in your schedule, try & get a letter from your physio detailing your condition, what steps they have taken, what steps & how long will still need to be taken, together with costs for the same. You may have to pay for that - include that expense in the schedule. In fact, detail any and all (reasonable) costs and losses associated with this claim.

At the end of the day, you need to be seen to be being reasonable and not over-egging. They won't want to go to court on something like this where liability is not in question and faced with a full schedule of loss they will find it harder to not give you a figure nearer the schedule - as long as it is accurate and reasonable.

Don't worry about the wife, some years ago and we're both amicable about it - in fact so amicable that she and my g/friend get on really well!

DO NOT advise them this will be your course of action.

They will p*ss themselves laughing and realise you are clueless.

The Magistrates court deals with criminal cases and family cases - they DO NOT deal with PI Claims. You want the county court

First.Aspect

spen666 wrote:

Pufftmw wrote:

Its a first offer. Detail your losses in a spreadsheet, along with receipts (a schedule of loss) then ask for £5k general damages (pain suffering). Give them 2 weeks to respond or advise them than you will issue a claim against them in the magistrates court (£5k limit for a simple claim but with max £1k personal injury). Claims above £5k (or PI above £1k) are Fast Track Cases upto £15K - a bit more complicated and there is the danger of costs of the other side if you lose the case.

Also, in your schedule, try & get a letter from your physio detailing your condition, what steps they have taken, what steps & how long will still need to be taken, together with costs for the same. You may have to pay for that - include that expense in the schedule. In fact, detail any and all (reasonable) costs and losses associated with this claim.

At the end of the day, you need to be seen to be being reasonable and not over-egging. They won't want to go to court on something like this where liability is not in question and faced with a full schedule of loss they will find it harder to not give you a figure nearer the schedule - as long as it is accurate and reasonable.

Don't worry about the wife, some years ago and we're both amicable about it - in fact so amicable that she and my g/friend get on really well!

DO NOT advise them this will be your course of action.

They will p*ss themselves laughing and realise you are clueless.

The Magistrates court deals with criminal cases and family cases - they DO NOT deal with PI Claims. You want the county court

Sorry, was there some advice here? Or was that just a legal professional chorling into his double chin at the clueless unwashed?

rjsterry

First Aspect wrote:

spen666 wrote:

Pufftmw wrote:

Its a first offer. Detail your losses in a spreadsheet, along with receipts (a schedule of loss) then ask for £5k general damages (pain suffering). Give them 2 weeks to respond or advise them than you will issue a claim against them in the magistrates court (£5k limit for a simple claim but with max £1k personal injury). Claims above £5k (or PI above £1k) are Fast Track Cases upto £15K - a bit more complicated and there is the danger of costs of the other side if you lose the case.

Also, in your schedule, try & get a letter from your physio detailing your condition, what steps they have taken, what steps & how long will still need to be taken, together with costs for the same. You may have to pay for that - include that expense in the schedule. In fact, detail any and all (reasonable) costs and losses associated with this claim.

At the end of the day, you need to be seen to be being reasonable and not over-egging. They won't want to go to court on something like this where liability is not in question and faced with a full schedule of loss they will find it harder to not give you a figure nearer the schedule - as long as it is accurate and reasonable.

Don't worry about the wife, some years ago and we're both amicable about it - in fact so amicable that she and my g/friend get on really well!

DO NOT advise them this will be your course of action.

They will p*ss themselves laughing and realise you are clueless.

The Magistrates court deals with criminal cases and family cases - they DO NOT deal with PI Claims. You want the county court

Sorry, was there some advice here? Or was that just a legal professional chorling into his double chin at the clueless unwashed?

TBF, it's a pretty important distinction.

First.Aspect

rjsterry wrote:

TBF, it's a pretty important distinction.

Of course it is, indeed so important and so obvious (if you happen to know) that the person who answers the general telephone calls to the court will point you in the right direction. You know, be generally helpful, rather than act like sneering child in the playground.

spen666

The issue here is people purporting to advise people how to handle legal cases when they have not got a clue.

Advising someone to threaten the MIB with suing them in the Mags court is not only wrong it is prejudiial to their case as it tells the MIB they have someone who does not understand the law as their opponent and that person is too stupid to realise they do not know the law.

If you are going to give legal advice, at least know the difference between a civil court and a criminal court.

Better to let people think you are stupid than to open your mouth and prove it

spen666

duplicate post

First.Aspect

spen666 wrote:

Better to let people think you are stupid than to open your mouth and prove it

Define stupid. Personally I'm not so thick as to confuse it with a lack of knowledge.

bigmat

I must admit when I first read Puff's post I thought "magistrates court, what's he on about?", but then I read his whole post and thought that on balance he had just mistakenly used the wrong term (everything else in there is consistent with him understanding the system). Either way, there are ways to point out mistakes on the internet...

spasypaddy

anyway i havent got any further with my letter writing back because ive been lain in bed all weekend ill.

and this week ive got a busy week at work. will attempt to do something tonight.

thanks everyone for your input

spasypaddy

Ok heres a copy of the letter that the MiB sent me. Any help would be great:

We agree that the expert whilst slightly contradictory, does state that no further physiotherapy is required. We agree that the medial evidence is complete and therefore we wish to agree the valuation of your injuries at this stage. This means that this will form the settlement amount should the claim be accepted.

We value your injuries in the sum of £1800. You should consider whether you agree to this valuation and confirm the same by return.

If will not be possible to agree the physiotherapy charges as they form a subrogated loss in accordance with clause 5(1)(g) of the Untraced Drivers’ Agreement. The treatment charges were paid as part of an indemnity from an insurance policy that you held privately, only losses incurred by you directly are recoverable.

In the meantime, we can confirm that out liability enquiries are ongoing, we are awaiting the conclusion of the police enquiries, at which stage they will send us a copy of the police report.

A few other bits, i have private medical care but im liable for the physio fees that they pay out if i make a claim against a third party. I have whiplash and its still sore, accident occurred mid august.

Thanks people, im really bad at writing stuff like this so any advice would be great.

bigmat

I think the MIB are saying they won't pay your physio expenses because you haven't incurred those expenses, your medical insurers have. But then your medical insurers are saying they won't pay them either if you are claiming from a third party. What a kerfuffle. I think the rationale behind the MIB's approach is that it is there to catch uninsured losses and therefore if there is even a sniff of a party being insured, it won't play ball. I reckon your medical insurers should be easier to work with. I would investigate the position with them a bit more - do they refuse to pay as soon as you make a claim against a third party, or only if you successfully claim against a third party? If the latter, is there room to argue that you have not successfully claimed as they are refusing to meet your physio costs? The MIB letter is helpful in that it expressly states that those costs are not covered by the offer they are making.

All of this is just a stab in the dark I'm afraid, I haven't dealt with the MIB for over 10 years...
I think the rationale behind the MIB's approach is that it is there to catch uninsured losses and therefore if there is even a sniff of a party being insured, it won't play ball. I reckon your medical insurers should be easier to work with.

spasypaddy

cheers matt, that was going to be my argument in my letter. Stating that i understand that i havent paid out for the physio YET but my health insurance pay out and then expect recompense from any payout from a third party. Thus technically leaving me out of pocket.

spen666

Check your medical policy again- I suspect they may say they wont pay if the costs can be recovered from a 3rd party. Here they can't be recovered

spasypaddy

ok cheers spen, i'll do that as well.

spen666

spasypaddy wrote:

cheers matt, that was going to be my argument in my letter. Stating that i understand that i havent paid out for the physio YET but my health insurance pay out and then expect recompense from any payout from a third party. Thus technically leaving me out of pocket.

I doubt you would have to repay to health insurance in this situation as you have not recovered the physio fees.

The main thing is you tried to claim them