Turbo Trainers - The Obree Way

CakeLovinBeast

I've just received my copy of The Obree Way in the post, and I'm slowly working my way through it and finding it very interesting. However, one thing that I found curious was the section on turbo trainer selection - mainly as I'm going through the process myself. His main principle(s) seem to be that a magnetic trainer is the best way to go as it will be the most consistent with regards it's resistance levels.

He mentions that fluid, fan and other trainers can be too variable in regards to temperature, etc and therefore when you're looking for small gains in performance (i.e. when 0.5% matters), then you need to be sure that any differences that you see are not down to your equipment. He advocates a magnetic trainer, with any adjustment mechanism locked/disabled in order that the machine is the same each time.

I just find it curious when so many people advocate expensive trainers, and I was/still am pretty much convinced by the CycleOps Fluid 2... I saw Amerferanga's graphs from using two different trainers and the Fluid2 seemed miles more consistent for a given power output. Ultimately, I'm not performing at a level where such minimal variances will have a significant impact on any training that I do, but I am curious to hear what other people think around this - Do you think it's something worth bearing in mind, or is it something that's going to make very little difference to 90-odd % of the people who train on a turbo?

kettrinboy

Ive got a Cycleops Super Magneto Pro trainer and on a roll down test from 25 mph and with other variables like tyre/roller pressure and using the same resistance setting obviously being equal, the difference between the "cold" and "hot"readings ie straight after an hours session is around 2.5 - 3 secs so not that big a difference and i think some of that would be due to the grease in the bearings being a bit more fluid after an hour spinning at several thousand rpm,rather than any change in the resistance of the magnetic brake system, but i think most trainers whatever resistance system they use should be pretty consistent after a 10-15 minute warm up.

ajmitchell

Magnetic turbos are affected by temperature. Most notably they have a warm up period of about 5mins when they initially have more resistance and them stabilise.....this can be seen in the following pic of speed against watts [YELLOW] on the turbo + powertab, notice how the speed [BLUE] lags in the first 5 due to higher than ave resistance in the warm up phase

Alex_Simmons/RST

CakeLovinBeast wrote:

He mentions that fluid, fan and other trainers can be too variable in regards to temperature, etc and therefore when you're looking for small gains in performance (i.e. when 0.5% matters), then you need to be sure that any differences that you see are not down to your equipment.

If you were concerned about such things, you would be using an accurately calibrated power meter to determine power output and remove trainer variability in resistance from the equation altogether.

fish156

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

CakeLovinBeast wrote:

He mentions that fluid, fan and other trainers can be too variable in regards to temperature, etc and therefore when you're looking for small gains in performance (i.e. when 0.5% matters), then you need to be sure that any differences that you see are not down to your equipment.

If you were concerned about such things, you would be using an accurately calibrated power meter to determine power output and remove trainer variability in resistance from the equation altogether.

In an ideal world, yes. You can be "concerned about such things" but not have the spare ca$h for such a device. In that case, make the best choice of the cheaper options available.

napoleond

I have a jet fluid pro and the speed/power relationship was bang on for every session irrespective of the temperature (not that it matters when using a power meter, but now I don't I know I can use constant speed and be safe in the knowledge effort level is the same...

amaferanga

ajmitchell wrote:

Magnetic turbos are affected by temperature. Most notably they have a warm up period of about 5mins when they initially have more resistance and them stabilise.....

I think all turbos will have some kind of warm up period (my Cycleops Fluid 2 is around 5-10 minutes), but what is important is what happens thereafter. I suspect that in general magnetic resistance will be more stable than fluid. Some fluid trainers are good it seems (Cycleops), but some are bad (Elite) when it comes to stability.

But I don't think I'd trust any turbo in tracking small improvements (e.g. change in threshold of a few Watts).

doyler78

amaferanga wrote:

ajmitchell wrote:

Magnetic turbos are affected by temperature. Most notably they have a warm up period of about 5mins when they initially have more resistance and them stabilise.....

I think all turbos will have some kind of warm up period (my Cycleops Fluid 2 is around 5-10 minutes), but what is important is what happens thereafter. I suspect that in general magnetic resistance will be more stable than fluid. Some fluid trainers are good it seems (Cycleops), but some are bad (Elite) when it comes to stability.

But I don't think I'd trust any turbo in tracking small improvements (e.g. change in threshold of a few Watts).

Power meters in the hands of those of who have no notion of how to keep it properly calibrated is as useless for this purpose as a turbo in the hands of someone who doesn't understand the limitations of their equipment either

Sorry if that is rather stating the obvious however I'd hate anyone to expect that because they spend a considerable sum of money that they guarantee accuracy

Alex_Simmons/RST

doyler78 wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

But I don't think I'd trust any turbo in tracking small improvements (e.g. change in threshold of a few Watts).

Power meters in the hands of those of who have no notion of how to keep it properly calibrated is as useless for this purpose as a turbo in the hands of someone who doesn't understand the limitations of their equipment either

Sorry if that is rather stating the obvious however I'd hate anyone to expect that because they spend a considerable sum of money that they guarantee accuracy

Hence my post:
viewtopic.php?p=17362982#p17362982

doyler78

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

doyler78 wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

But I don't think I'd trust any turbo in tracking small improvements (e.g. change in threshold of a few Watts).

Power meters in the hands of those of who have no notion of how to keep it properly calibrated is as useless for this purpose as a turbo in the hands of someone who doesn't understand the limitations of their equipment either

Sorry if that is rather stating the obvious however I'd hate anyone to expect that because they spend a considerable sum of money that they guarantee accuracy

Hence my post:
viewtopic.php?p=17362982#p17362982

God your good

symo

I believe it depends on the fluids properties, I believe Cycleops use a standard oil base of some sort whereas KK use something that is designed to be constant with temperature.