Ride Etiquette....

Tom Dean

The guy is obviously a bit of a pr!ck, but,

Headhuunter wrote:

A little further into the ride I thought that may be I should take a turn on the front, however as I tried to drop back to let the front guy take my wheel, he seemed to drop his speed quite significantly as though he didn't want me taking the lead. So I dropped off a bit and let him pass me and fell to the back of the pack again. Further into the ride we hit some hills. The ride pace dropped quite significantly, so I decided to head off a bit faster up the hill, with the intention of dropping back at the top and letting them catch up. I did this on a couple of hills.

You didn't take the hint did you!
Although you were trying do do your turn on the front, it sounds like you were going through too hard and opening a gap behind you - this could look like you were 'attacking' the group or trying too push the pace harder than the group wanted. You don't need to do a turn on the front out of politeness.

Headhuunter wrote:

apparently he had shouted at me along the way at some point (didn't hear a thing - there was a fair amount of wind and my ears were covered to keep them warm).

Group riding requires communication, if you can't hear anything, uncover your ears.

Headhuunter wrote:

I was pretty shocked at this, I thought we'd all been riding fine together. I genuinely didn't know I had done anything wrong... It would've been nice if he had just explained to me calmly what exactly it was that I had done to offend! I'm left wondering why there seem to be some utter @rssholls in the cycling fraternity. So what does everyone think I did wrong?

Headhuunter wrote:

I think he was basically saying that I shouldn't have "attacked" on the hills

It is common for groups to split on the hills when the pace is high and reform at the top. There is some sort of understanding among the group that this will or will not happen. You, as a newcomer, have decided to split the group. If in doubt, don't be the one to split the group. wait til it kicks off and then you can go.

I'm guessing you are new to your club since you didn't know who you were with for 10 minutes! Stick with the club I'm sure they will give lots of advice and guide you well. If you jump in groups with total strangers you could find yourself on a triathlete's wheel so be careful.

To those who take this as evidence that all cyclists are w@nkers - there is a great tradition and culture in the cycling clubs and you are missing out on a wonderful part of the sport.

Lossie Loon

Tom Dean wrote:

If you jump in groups with total strangers you could find yourself on a triathlete's wheel so be careful.

This line intrigued me... are triathletes people to be scared of?

And on the thread in general - it does put me off the idea of riding in a group in case I don't read the etiquette prompts well enough. At least when you are on your own you can ride to your own rules (within the law!).

rick_chasey

Lossie Loon wrote:

This line intrigued me... are triathletes people to be scared of?

I take it you're new here.

Thelittlesthobo

Bottom line, unless you acted in an insulting and agressive manner you dont expected effing and jeffing in return. I would have politely told him to shove his ride up his arse. I know if i had been riding with a pal who was so insulting to a stranger i would have stuck up for the stranger as well. No need for it.

The other side of that coin is if you were acting in an agressive manner i would be the first to ask you to calm it down or do one. As long as you took it on board it could be nice and friendly.

Thing is i was also a newcomer this year to road cycling and it is a bit strange, isnt it.... I am used to leading mtb rides and looking after less confident riders to make sure they get through a ride. On the road it came as a bit of a shock at how 'out for themselves' road riders can be. This isnt a slight on road riders, as the more i got used to it the more i appreciated it. I enjoy going out with the group now in this way.

My 1st ride i stuck at the back. I tried to strike up convos and kept myself out of trouble. I didnt take the front for any of the first 20mls and tbh i wasnt upto it either. On one section of gradual uphill i did try to take the front and keep at the pace but they made a concerted effort to drop right back off me so i took the hint and never took the front again. Suited me as i was having to work hard to do so. Thing was i was more hurt that they didnt just say so, but doing it by leaving me too it seemed a little childish tbh. It all seemed to work out ok and i have ridden with them since and really enjoyed it.

Lossie Loon

Rick Chasey wrote:

Lossie Loon wrote:

This line intrigued me... are triathletes people to be scared of?

I take it you're new here.

That does scare me, yes.

Was just intrigued as I was interested in doing triathlons as I am a keen and decent swimmer. It's just the running bit that gets me at the moment.

markos1963

Zoomer37 wrote:

The disappointing bit about all this is it does put people off going riding with a local club or group which is a real shame.

Nothing better than churning out the miles with a well organized group.

At what point did the OP identify the group as a club? I'm getting fed up with people on here putting down club riding. Yes you get bad clubs but most are pretty good. It's unlikely to be a club because as others have pointed out on here most clubs allow to split on hills and then regroup. The only exception to this is a usually a chain gang early in a ride.

Zoomer37

markos1963 wrote:

Zoomer37 wrote:

The disappointing bit about all this is it does put people off going riding with a local club or group which is a real shame.

Nothing better than churning out the miles with a well organized group.

At what point did the OP identify the group as a club? I'm getting fed up with people on here putting down club riding. Yes you get bad clubs but most are pretty good. It's unlikely to be a club because as others have pointed out on here most clubs allow to split on hills and then regroup. The only exception to this is a usually a chain gang early in a ride.

uh? I didn't suggest the OP said it was a club and I was not putting down club riding. I was merely saying when something like this happens, people are then put off from going and trying out riding in a local group or club.

Headhuunter

Tom Dean wrote:

The guy is obviously a bit of a pr!ck, but,

Headhuunter wrote:

A little further into the ride I thought that may be I should take a turn on the front, however as I tried to drop back to let the front guy take my wheel, he seemed to drop his speed quite significantly as though he didn't want me taking the lead. So I dropped off a bit and let him pass me and fell to the back of the pack again. Further into the ride we hit some hills. The ride pace dropped quite significantly, so I decided to head off a bit faster up the hill, with the intention of dropping back at the top and letting them catch up. I did this on a couple of hills.

You didn't take the hint did you!
Although you were trying do do your turn on the front, it sounds like you were going through too hard and opening a gap behind you - this could look like you were 'attacking' the group or trying too push the pace harder than the group wanted. You don't need to do a turn on the front out of politeness.

Headhuunter wrote:

apparently he had shouted at me along the way at some point (didn't hear a thing - there was a fair amount of wind and my ears were covered to keep them warm).

Group riding requires communication, if you can't hear anything, uncover your ears.

Headhuunter wrote:

I was pretty shocked at this, I thought we'd all been riding fine together. I genuinely didn't know I had done anything wrong... It would've been nice if he had just explained to me calmly what exactly it was that I had done to offend! I'm left wondering why there seem to be some utter @rssholls in the cycling fraternity. So what does everyone think I did wrong?

Headhuunter wrote:

I think he was basically saying that I shouldn't have "attacked" on the hills

It is common for groups to split on the hills when the pace is high and reform at the top. There is some sort of understanding among the group that this will or will not happen. You, as a newcomer, have decided to split the group. If in doubt, don't be the one to split the group. wait til it kicks off and then you can go.

I'm guessing you are new to your club since you didn't know who you were with for 10 minutes! Stick with the club I'm sure they will give lots of advice and guide you well. If you jump in groups with total strangers you could find yourself on a triathlete's wheel so be careful.

To those who take this as evidence that all cyclists are w@nkers - there is a great tradition and culture in the cycling clubs and you are missing out on a wonderful part of the sport.

Thanks for the response. When I tried to do my bit on the front I didn't pass that fast, I tried to carefully match the speed of the group before I accelerated to the front but the guy literally slowed the group right down.... Looking back perhaps he just wanted me to sod off right there and then and slowing the group down was a hint that I should b*gger off... Not sure why he would have wanted that but anyway... Or perhaps I'm not very subtle and don't get hints. I need someone to tell me clearly what they're feeling in well enunciated English, this guy went from a "hint" to something garbled as he passed me which I didn't hear to full on expletive explosion...

I think even if I had had my ears uncovered I wouldn't have heard much, he literally shouted a single word or perhaps 2 words, not sure exactly as he passed me at 1 point. I don't know what he said or how I was supposed to get the message from what he said....

Not new to the club but it's a very popular club and it's not uncommon to have a whole group of people I have never met before. Some Saturday rides have literally 70 people in them which split down into separate groups, I don't always recognise anyone, however I suppose I should have noticed the lack of anyone in club kit!

I'm also intrigued by the triathlete comment!

Evil Laugh

Is it Dulwich you normally go out with?

giant_man

What an absolute wan%er this idiot was. 'Ruined his ride'? Wtf? Unfortunately you get this type of imbecile, who would benefit from a swift kick in the balls quite honestly, in clubs, this is one of the reasons I don't belong to a club. You always get personality conflicts, and i'm not the kind of bloke who wouldn't take any $hit from any other rider. I can't stand this type of ridicule, totally unneccesary.

My advice is, if you want to ride in a group with anyone, find yourself a good club who won't take the %iss out of you.

bianchimoon

As you didn't know this guy it could be just his personality and the way that he talks to people all the time. We had to 'make' one guy in our regular 'friends' rides leave because of a not dissimilar attitude. We put up with his tantrums for years. He couldn't cope with various situations without shouting/swearing, telling people how they should/shouldn't ride in certain situations. In the end it became a chore to have to pacify him or put up with his sulks if someone answered him back. shame, but some people are intolerant or have issues that ruin it for everyone else.

cougie

Again people are saying this is why they aren't in clubs.

We've nothing here that says the guy is a club member. And he's an idiot whether he's a club member or not. Lots of people are idiots and the only way to avoid them is to become a hermit. That's kind of cutting off your nose to spite your face though ?

Clubs are great for finding good routes and riding partners. Just avoid the to$$ers like you would anywhere else.

suzyb

How about I try and balance it out by pointing out I'm not in a club because I'm too slow

cougie

There are plenty of slower riders in our club too. Clubs aren't just about being fast. We've youngsters and older people who just love being out on their bikes.

Simonhi

Guy sounds like a knob, obviously by harping on about 20 years experience, being a strong rider blah blah blah. He reminds me of a bloke at a rowing club I once went to when I was at school, the President no less, the missus at the time poured a pint of Guiness over him when he was 15,000 metres into a 20k workout on the Ergo, man was he mad Some people take life far to seriously, I mean most of ride for the enjoyment no the bragging right surely.

I would have probably called him all the names under the sun back, but then you only lower yourself to his level.

If there were so many "rules" to be in the clique why did nobody mention it to you.

What a t w a t.

Thelittlesthobo

I dont think this was intended as a dig at club rides. I have just reread my post and for some reason i have highlighted club rides so apologies. Maybe its just that the examples people remember of ignorant fools are on club runs.

Anyhow, this isnt anything to do with club rides, its down to basic manners and the guy was a fool. If someone cant talk to another person in the proper manner then sod em

oldwelshman

To the OP, these were probably a group of mates not a club, that type of behavious is ore typical of private riders
best thing to do is find them again, ride to the front and stay about 5 meters in front, then launch up the hills and drop them, climb off your bike and wait for the fast guy whilst eating a banana Oh and do this on a monntain bike !!

Thelittlesthobo

Whilst wearing baggies and a peak of course.

juggler

The abuse and agression from the guy is out of order.

However if i am out with a group that i don;t know, i tend to stay to the back until i get to know them or understand the ride etiquette. From what i read, you are either a faster rider than them or they had decided to ride at a slower pace (maybe so that they stayed together as a group). For whatever reason you going up ahead on the climbs and (maybe) your attempt to go to the front of the bunch was seen by this guy as aggressive / showing off.

Not sure. Etiquette on the clubs runs i go on is that everyone blasts up the hills pretty much as fast as they like and then regroup.... obviously does not apply in this case. Were you going up ahead each time on your own and the rest staying together in a loose bunch? Not saying it is right, and does not explain the response, but might explain the bad feeling, if that;s the way this group rides and then someone they had never met before is blasting to the top of each hill and waiting for them.

oldwelshman

Once it Italy we were riding on hotel bikes and a guy on a swish Pinarello in all the gear passed us and we spoke to him and said hello and he looked at us stupidly as he rode past, so we followed him and I was on his wheel as he tried to drop us after about a mile I could not stop laughing as he tried in vain to drop us, the photo of my bike is below :

nhoj

Haha, brilliant!

siamon

From the Pinarello riders point of view, you are dressed in white, riding a ladies bike, approach him in an overtly friendly manner then chase him down the road for mile after mile. It is more than reasonable for him to assume your intentions were sexual and was therefore utterly terrified.

Zoomer37

Lol

oscarbudgie

The guy's attitude is well over the top however if the group were set to ride steady they may not have appreciated you raising the pace when on the front, even on the hills - if thats what you did? If you're in a disciplined group and everyone's taking turns its great - but if one person pushes too hard it can put others in the red so they stop taking turns and the rhythm is gone and so's the average. It was their ride after all. No excuse for the verbals though

Foz72

cougie wrote:

Of course there are some rude people in cycling. There are everywhere.


True. But the question is question is whether road cycling gets less or more of its fair share.
Personally, I think that roadies seem to have a staggering level of status anxiety compared to other games I've tried over the years and it imho it does seem to get a bit more that a fair share. Though I know fine that the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'

siamon

Why didn't you ask him what you did? Then you would know.

Headhuunter

siamon wrote:

Why didn't you ask him what you did? Then you would know.

As I mentioned earlier, I couldn't get a word in between his effing and jeffing... I tried but he refused to listen leaving me confused. All I can think is that he feels that I "ruined the ride" by destroying the rhythm as mentioned by the earlier poster but I understand why he couldn't have explained this to me in a calm manner.

Headhuunter

Foz72 wrote:

cougie wrote:

Of course there are some rude people in cycling. There are everywhere.


True. But the question is question is whether road cycling gets less or more of its fair share.
Personally, I think that roadies seem to have a staggering level of status anxiety compared to other games I've tried over the years and it imho it does seem to get a bit more that a fair share. Though I know fine that the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'

Yes, I have a tendency to think you're right. Of course not all roadies are utter rssholls but there are a fair few very narrow, rule minded people who can be very cliquey and exclusive. I have never felt it to the same extent in other sports or even something like mountain biking....

KnightOfTheLongTights

lyn1 wrote:

Why did you need to drop back to allow the next rider to take your wheel? He should have been on your wheel if you were riding at the group's pace. On the front does not include off the front. When you are on the front you provide shelter to those following. You don't do that if you are 50m in front. Same thing applies on the hills. You joined a group who were happy to have you, but by the sounds of it, rode your own pace at times, not the pace the group wished to travel at. On club rides, its often accepted that everyone climbs at their own pace and regroup at the top. That may not have been the agreement in this group and presumably you did not check.
They probably misunderstood you intentions, ie you were not suggesting they were too weak for you, but its understandable that you may have inadvertantly given that impression......but irrespective of that there's no need for the foul language, a quiet word on the first occasion should suffice.

This is pretty much what I was thinking. Without in the slightest defending the guy's outburst, it can be frustrating in a chaingang when someone pulls much harder off the front than everyone else. It breaks up the rhythym and efficiency of the group and kills weaker riders who then can't contribute to the overall effort.

When you take your turn on the front you have to be careful not to pull away from the front rider you're taking over from, even if that means missing a couple of beats on the pedals - cos you are probably going through with more momentum than you think. There's nowt worse than, having done your turn at the front, then having to step on it to keep up with the bloke who's come through strong.

I only know this cos I was that bloke on my first few club rides, was told I was coming through too strong, and made an effort not to do it (I then slowed down too much which is almost as bad, and then found the happy medium!)

Can be difficult not to do it when you're stronger than the rest of the group - but if you ask to ride with a chaingang of strangers then it's probably best to try and keep at their speed and rhythym.

Having said that, the guy was obviously a dick.

bigmat

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

lyn1 wrote:

Why did you need to drop back to allow the next rider to take your wheel? He should have been on your wheel if you were riding at the group's pace. On the front does not include off the front. When you are on the front you provide shelter to those following. You don't do that if you are 50m in front. Same thing applies on the hills. You joined a group who were happy to have you, but by the sounds of it, rode your own pace at times, not the pace the group wished to travel at. On club rides, its often accepted that everyone climbs at their own pace and regroup at the top. That may not have been the agreement in this group and presumably you did not check.
They probably misunderstood you intentions, ie you were not suggesting they were too weak for you, but its understandable that you may have inadvertantly given that impression......but irrespective of that there's no need for the foul language, a quiet word on the first occasion should suffice.

This is pretty much what I was thinking. Without in the slightest defending the guy's outburst, it can be frustrating in a chaingang when someone pulls much harder off the front than everyone else. It breaks up the rhythym and efficiency of the group and kills weaker riders who then can't contribute to the overall effort.

When you take your turn on the front you have to be careful not to pull away from the front rider you're taking over from, even if that means missing a couple of beats on the pedals - cos you are probably going through with more momentum than you think. There's nowt worse than, having done your turn at the front, then having to step on it to keep up with the bloke who's come through strong.

I only know this cos I was that bloke on my first few club rides, was told I was coming through too strong, and made an effort not to do it (I then slowed down too much which is almost as bad, and then found the happy medium!)

Can be difficult not to do it when you're stronger than the rest of the group - but if you ask to ride with a chaingang of strangers then it's probably best to try and keep at their speed and rhythym.

Having said that, the guy was obviously a dick.

This sounds about right. I too have lacked the bunch riding skills to avoid gapping the second man when I hit the front - has taken me a while to realise that when doing through and off you should actually back off when you get to the inside front rather than put a dig in. That said, most club riders will appreciate that it is every man for himself when you reach a hill (although if I'm with a group I don't know I will generally just sit on the wheel of the guy on the front, out of politeness). As suggested above, I fear you may have ended up riding with a triathlete!