Bruno Senna - what does he have to do?

DonDaddyD

What does the guy have to do to get a drive and keep it?

I was reading up on him and apprently at the start of Jenson Button's World Championship winning season, Bruno, over the course of a 3 day test came within 0.3 seconds of Jenson's best lap times.

Clearly he has some talent and I'd argue that he could probably have better sponsors than Massa, so what gives?

I feel sorry for him.

rick_chasey

Get better sponsors.

Gazzaputt

Don't crash as much?

0.3 per lap over a race distance ends up in a sizable gap so sounds good but in reality it isn't.

Jenson is the man.

suzyb

Did he not get a seat at Renault.

dhope

suzyb wrote:

Did he not get a seat at Renault.

Nope, it went to Romain Grosjean.

Senna hasn't set the world on fire though he's certainly shown a bit more than Grosjean did. +1 to sponsors.

redvee

These days it's not just a drivers ability in the car that the teams look for, it's also the sponsors and money the driver has behind him. It's a choice between not so good driver bringing £5m backing or a good driver with no financial backing.

tlw1

Gazzaputt wrote:

Don't crash as much?

0.3 per lap over a race distance ends up in a sizable gap so sounds good but in reality it isn't.

Jenson is the man.

+1

Also have to be out at the same time in identical cars - too many variables otherwise

sketchley

Gazzaputt wrote:

Don't crash as much?

0.3 per lap over a race distance ends up in a sizable gap so sounds good but in reality it isn't.

Assuming this is Silverstone is a 52 lap race. (note I have no idea if this was the track but first one I looked up) but 0.3 sec per lap over 52 laps of F1 is 15.6 seconds. Lap record at Silverstone is 93.874 seconds over a distance of 5.891 km so assuming this pace maintained throughout (of course it wouldn't) this means at the end of the race Bruno would be around 978.96 meters behind; a sizeable gap indeed.

Mr Plum

Sketchley wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

Don't crash as much?

0.3 per lap over a race distance ends up in a sizable gap so sounds good but in reality it isn't.

Assuming this is Silverstone is a 52 lap race. (note I have no idea if this was the track but first one I looked up) but 0.3 sec per lap over 52 laps of F1 is 15.6 seconds. Lap record at Silverstone is 93.874 seconds over a distance of 5.891 km so assuming this pace maintained throughout (of course it wouldn't) this means at the end of the race Bruno would be around 978.96 meters behind; a sizeable gap indeed.

It's probably worth remembering that the Brawn completely blew the field away at the start of 2009. The only way to compare a rookie who was 0.3 down on Jenson would be to compare how far off the pace everyone else was...

I'm not surprised that Senna didn't get the Renault seat, they're looking for a complete overhaul and Grosjean hasn't yet shown his full potential in an F1 car. Senna was good this season given the circumstances he came to get that seat half way through the season, but he's not right for Renault given their ambitions - for my money he's not shown that he's a future world champion. He should have done enough to attract the interest of other teams though, time will tell...

walkingbootweather

I'd be happy to recommend him to our local Post Office. Might have a chance of getting mail before lunchtime then :evil:

neiltb

if the retirees didn't keep crawling back he'd have a chance, then there's barrichello, as good as he was, he must have enough moolah under the mattress by now.

He might suffer from those saying he's only there because of his uncle which is very unfair.

snooks

Gazzaputt wrote:

Don't crash as much?

That was my first thought too....but after a little research it seems that in 2010 he "only" had two accidents, he raced 18 times, and only finished 9 of them here's how he didn't finish

Bahrain:
Bruno Senna's debut for Hispania ended when his engine overheated at the end of the main straight.
Aus:
Bruno Senna also retired, the result of a hydraulic failure.
Spain:
The other first-lap incident saw an early exit for Bruno Senna, his Hispania spearing into the barriers [Accident]
Monaco:
Bruno Senna and Heikki Kovalainen joined the growing list of retirements, both exiting the race on the same lap with mechanical troubles.
Turkey:
Fuel pressure lap 46
Canada:
Lap 13 Gearbox
Belgian:
Bruno Senna was the second retirement of the afternoon, his Hispania F110 returning to the pits and staying there with a mechanical fault. lap 5
Italy:
A hydraulic failure made Bruno Senna's HRT the race's third retirement on lap 11.
Singapore:
Kobayashi went wide on the approach to turn 18 and tagged the outer wall before spinning around to block half the circuit; Senna was slow to react into the blind corner moments later and buried his Hispania nose-first into the barrier alongside Kobayashi. [Accident]
All from Wiki, so it might be a load of bull

So it seams he doesn't actually "crash" as much as we think

However we've both got this impression from somewhere....His inability to keep the car on the track maybe?

Wallace1492

Is he any relation to Ayrton?

rick_chasey

Nephew.

tiny_pens

Sorry but I think he's missed his F1 slot. At 28 he should be at/near his peak and he hasn't had the results to justify it recently. Even Button started to get good results again by this age ;-)

Grosjean is coming through to a French sponsored team off the back of good results in GP2, potentially full of confidence. Its only to be expected to see a French team pick and up and coming driver to partner an experienced driver who brings a lot of sponsors.

Much as I like Bruno Senna as a driver he hasn't come through with the goods - partly i'm sure because Lotus wasn't a good opportunity to prove himself. Maybe he isn't a popular driver in the paddock? I got the impression that one of the reasons that Button lasted in the sidelines for so long was that he had a lot of respect from the other drivers.

Out of interest and to keep the thread rolling. Who would you drop next season to make room for him?

DonDaddyD

I could see him sit nicely alongside Paul Di Resta, Force India isn't a Championship Winning team but certainly a developing one that could do with a 'name' and decent/tried tested driver to take the brand/team to the next level of popularity.

Mr Plum

tiny_pens wrote:

Out of interest and to keep the thread rolling. Who would you drop next season to make room for him?

If Maldonado wasn't staying at Williams then he'd (Senna) be a good shout for a drive there, but it doesn't make sense for Williams to have 2 relatively inexperienced drivers in the team given the position they're in and what they need to do to make progress next season. As has been said, it's a lot to do with sponsorship with them and any team further down the grid, so a lot would depend on what backing Senna has. AFAIK, Virgin are unsure on d'Ambrosio so Senna could get a look-in there. Other than that, I don't think he'll have a chance anywhere else - the top 8 teams this season have pretty solid driver line-ups or look to be working on plans that I don't think Senna will fit into.

For a laugh I'd stick him in Massa's Ferrari. Based on this season he could do as good a job as Massa did and it'd be great to see if he can do anything in what should be a competitive car. He seems to have a thick enough skin to deal with the bullshit Ferrari politics.

tiny_pens

DonDaddyD wrote:

I could see him sit nicely alongside Paul Di Resta, Force India isn't a Championship Winning team but certainly a developing one that could do with a 'name' and decent/tried tested driver to take the brand/team to the next level of popularity.

Nice to see him there. Would give him a chance to show his skills. But would you really drop Sutil (prejudice notwithstanding)? He has produced the better results overall for the season.

I'd personally drop Barrichello at Williams. He is a good driver but I don't think he gets the best out of the car when its a bit off the pace. Maldonado is a bit of liability but hey, crashes cause publicity right?

DonDaddyD

I'd have thought Senna would have better sponsors than Massa... I mean come on what more can he do, change his name to Beckham?

snooks

DonDaddyD wrote:

I'd have thought Senna would have better sponsors than Massa... I mean come on what more can he do, change his name to Beckham?

Ah but Senna doesn't look like Nookie bear

Massa


Nookie Bear

EKE_38BPM

Isn't Kimi going to Lotus? If they build a half decent car Kimi is the guy to outperform the car and bring them up to a decent mid-field position. Edit: Just found out that Kimi injured his hand in a snowmobile race.

PDR looks like a good prospect. Another good season at Force India and I think he'll be ready for one of the big boys. Bye bye Massa and hello Di Resta. If he speaks Italian, I'm sure the Scuderia will love him. Massa just hasn't been the same since he took a spring to the face. Seems like whatever 'it' is, 'it' got knocked out of him in Hungary.

Is Robert Kubica back next season? I'd love to see him back, Kimi back, Barrichello gone (you've had your chance, now relax on a beach somewhere) and both McMerc drivers on form and in competitive cars.
I want Webber to get angry. He drives better when he's angry.
PDLR is coming back with HRT I think. If that means the end of Liuzzi in F1, I won't shed a tear.

tiny_pens What prejudice against Sutil?

Mr Plum

Kubica is out for the foreseeable - he's not recovered quickly enough to come back next year and Raikkonen has taken his seat at Renault anyway. Last I head Ferrari were interested in him as a replacement for Massa in 2013. Di Resta is definitely in with a shout of that Ferrari drive if he has another good season - he seems a bit emotionless for the Tifosi but they'll love anyone who brings them results.

tiny_pens

Sutil is German. Di Resta is British. Being English I naturally want a Brit picked over a German regardless of skill. Simple prejudice and I admit it. I'd probably try and justify it by saying that Di Resta is younger and make up some reason why being younger is a better thing in F1.

Ignoring this fact then Sutil has driven really well and you'd be mad to drop him as he has consistently done (slightly) better than Di Resta.

EKE_38BPM

Mr Plum wrote:

Kubica is out for the foreseeable - he's not recovered quickly enough to come back next year and Raikkonen has taken his seat at Renault anyway. Last I head Ferrari were interested in him as a replacement for Massa in 2013. Di Resta is definitely in with a shout of that Ferrari drive if he has another good season - he seems a bit emotionless for the Tifosi but they'll love anyone who brings them results.

So, its Kimi to Renault, not Lotus?
I think that there are too many drivers just making up the numbers.
Kovaleinen, Liuzzi, Barrichello, Massa and Glock should all step aside. PDLR shouldn't come back either, fine as test driver but I think there are too many of the old guard taking up race seats. PDLR has one podium in 86 F1 races (including 9 races over 8 seasons with McMerc). Not good enough.

I know F1 is about money and young drivers have to bring in enough to pay for their seat, but with the lack of testing, young drivers don't get a chance to learn the cars and tracks other than the race weekend or, even worse, race day. Jaime Alguersuari's record has shown how hard that first season can be. He survived that and did much better last season, but without deep pockets, new drivers have little chance.

Maybe Bruno's pockets are just not deep enough and he's just not talented enough to blow the decision makers within the team away.

snooks

@tiny_pens
I get what you're saying, but Sutil has been around for 5 years....is he 5 years "better" that Paul DR?

I think not

EKE_38BPM

tiny_pens wrote:

Sutil is German. Di Resta is British. Being English I naturally want a Brit picked over a German regardless of skill. Simple prejudice and I admit it. I'd probably try and justify it by saying that Di Resta is younger and make up some reason why being younger is a better thing in F1.

Ignoring this fact then Sutil has driven really well and you'd be mad to drop him as he has consistently done (slightly) better than Di Resta.

Can't argue with that. Lots of Germans in F1 at the mo. Lots of German influence too. F1's new turbo engines were brought in as a way of getting VAG to come and play. F1 implemented it under VAG's say so, and then VAG changed their minds about entering F1.

EKE_38BPM

Double post

Mr Plum

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Mr Plum wrote:

Kubica is out for the foreseeable - he's not recovered quickly enough to come back next year and Raikkonen has taken his seat at Renault anyway. Last I head Ferrari were interested in him as a replacement for Massa in 2013. Di Resta is definitely in with a shout of that Ferrari drive if he has another good season - he seems a bit emotionless for the Tifosi but they'll love anyone who brings them results.

So, its Kimi to Renault, not Lotus?

Sorry, I meant Lotus (who were 'Lotus Renault GP' this season).

suzyb

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Mr Plum wrote:

Kubica is out for the foreseeable - he's not recovered quickly enough to come back next year and Raikkonen has taken his seat at Renault anyway. Last I head Ferrari were interested in him as a replacement for Massa in 2013. Di Resta is definitely in with a shout of that Ferrari drive if he has another good season - he seems a bit emotionless for the Tifosi but they'll love anyone who brings them results.

So, its Kimi to Renault, not Lotus?

That confuses me as well. Stupid Renaults with Lotus on them :roll:

Mr Plum

He's competing with Buemi and Alguersuari for a seat as well now...

Wrath Rob

Didn't Bruno compete against Hamilton in GP2? Hamilton got to F1 and in his debut season (ok, it was with Mclaren), blew away his team mate Alonso. Senna got to F1 with a pony team and suffered the consequences. Hispania is not the place to get yourself noticed, you need to come up the ranks aligned with one of the F1 feeder teams that operate in GP2 so that you can get into a good F1 seat. Otherwise give up and go sports car or tin-top racing.