Who'd be a politician aye?

Frank the tank

Not that I have any sympathy with the man or his policies,but, firkin' 'ell what's the chances of Cameron pleasing anybody nevermind everybody over the next 48hours or so with his european escapade.

LeicesterLad

Frank the tank wrote:

Not that I have any sympathy with the man or his policies,but, firkin' 'ell what's the chances of Cameron pleasing anybody nevermind everybody over the next 48hours or so with his european escapade.

Yeah he will get a lot of stick either way, far too many people forgetting that originally Labour wanted to Join the euro. Bleedin good job they didn't!

random man

I can't imagine anyone in the eurozone gives a sh1t what Cameron thinks, and I reckon they'll be happy to say so if he wants to veto anything.

Frank the tank

random man wrote:

I can't imagine anyone in the eurozone gives a sh1t what Cameron thinks, and I reckon they'll be happy to say so if he wants to veto anything.

I agree mate, but any British PM of any political persuasion given the (seemingly) high degree of euro sceptisism that exists on our fair isle would have their work cut out. These are very tough times and If the political/financial analyst' are to be believed in the media Cameron in particular is inbetween a rock and a hard place. He's not even got the full support of the party he leads.

nevman

Yesterday he was putting British interests first-tonight it came a distant third after sorting out the Euro mess and protecting financial services.Great.

bagpusscp

Me thinks most UK people are glad we are not in the euro. I have family in Austria and in their opinion prices have only go since Austria joined.Holidays in Greece and Spain have become a lot more expensive.Greece was the richest country in the Balkans till it joined the Euro.It can no longer devalue its currency there by encouraging people to go on holiday there and spend money.The only country who has any benifit from the euro is Germany because it makes their exports cheaper across the rest of the EU.Having said that they are spending it all proping up the rest of the EU.
It is hard enough getting the people to vote in a general election never a European one.Bring back EFTA.

Tom Dean

LeicesterLad wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

Not that I have any sympathy with the man or his policies,but, firkin' 'ell what's the chances of Cameron pleasing anybody nevermind everybody over the next 48hours or so with his european escapade.

Yeah he will get a lot of stick either way, far too many people forgetting that originally Labour wanted to Join the euro. Bleedin good job they didn't!

Thanks to Gordon Brown

Frank the tank

Tom Dean wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

Not that I have any sympathy with the man or his policies,but, firkin' 'ell what's the chances of Cameron pleasing anybody nevermind everybody over the next 48hours or so with his european escapade.

Yeah he will get a lot of stick either way, far too many people forgetting that originally Labour wanted to Join the euro. Bleedin good job they didn't!

Thanks to Gordon Brown

The euro currency is an experiment that's gone/going hideously wrong. Thing is whether we like it or not, our ecconomy is tied to europe not just the eurozone. While in the short term some people will be cheering Cameron fact is the other european countries will be meeting twice a month making big decisions with regard the financing of europe. We will have no say in those negotiations even though our ecconomy will be directly effected by any decisions made.

I, like most on here am no expert (far from it) on europe and the eurozone, but, it can't be good to be stood outside in the corridor while the policies are being made in the office. I'm not saying Cameron has done wrong (I don't know) only time will tell but I don't think we as a nation are in a vry influencial or good position.

wildmoustache

Frank the tank wrote:

Tom Dean wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

Not that I have any sympathy with the man or his policies,but, firkin' 'ell what's the chances of Cameron pleasing anybody nevermind everybody over the next 48hours or so with his european escapade.

Yeah he will get a lot of stick either way, far too many people forgetting that originally Labour wanted to Join the euro. Bleedin good job they didn't!

Thanks to Gordon Brown

The euro currency is an experiment that's gone/going hideously wrong. Thing is whether we like it or not, our ecconomy is tied to europe not just the eurozone. While in the short term some people will be cheering Cameron fact is the other european countries will be meeting twice a month making big decisions with regard the financing of europe. We will have no say in those negotiations even though our ecconomy will be directly effected by any decisions made.

I, like most on here am no expert (far from it) on europe and the eurozone, but, it can't be good to be stood outside in the corridor while the policies are being made in the office. I'm not saying Cameron has done wrong (I don't know) only time will tell but I don't think we as a nation are in a vry influencial or good position.

Yes, ideally you'd take all decisions yourself after considering others' views and have maximum control over your own destiny. Life isn't like that unfortunately. If the cost of being in with the key decision makers, is being in the euro, then it isn't worth the cost right?

We can't not be part of it with all the pain that involves, but at the same time say "you can't take any decisions without us".

Cameron is doing pretty well on this. What realistic alternative courses of action do those who think otherwise advocate?

One of G.Brown's very few useful contributions to the long-term health of our economy was indeed his resistance to the Euro when Blair and co. were massively pro.

nevman

nevman wrote:

Yesterday he was putting British interests first-tonight it came a distant third after sorting out the Euro mess and protecting financial services.Great.

Nom Nom Nom,sound of man eating own words.
Must have been backed into a big corner by Sarky and the coat of many colours.We are better off without the big two,bossing everyone else in Europe.I for one have vowed to try and buy British next year-Shutt,Enigma,John Smedley,Lusso,Mercian,Rourke-we have some great products that are sold across the world.Give it a try.

wildmoustache

Er ... I do think protecting financial services is part of protecting British interests.

Sure, some of the activities in banks have cause all manner of problems but that's only part of the FS universe and the sector still employers hundreds of thousands of people and generates a vast amount of revenue for HMT ... has done for decades, and could do for decades more ...

ddraver

I think it is an excellent political move for David Cameron and the Tory Party, but I don't think it is the right move for the UK. Part of the trouble is we mistakenly think that everyone in Europe is concerned about what Britan does, I can tell you that when we ve had talks about it here, Britain just does not come up - they don't care about it. I fear that Europe will wave goodbye to the UK and we ll be entirely on our own but still dependent on a Europe with a somewhat anti british opinion with whom we have minimal influence.....

Whether that turns into a good thing or not will take a fair few years to decide. PArt of the need to protect the City of London is that we don't have anything else!

verylonglegs

But didn't they want to create another treaty in order to save the Euro as a currency which we don't use so making any input we would have had seem a bit weightless. The bbc news site carries a page allegedly detailing all the demands/wishes of each country and it made my head spin reading it and trying to imagine a solution that would satisfy them.

Frank the tank

wildmoustache wrote:

Er ... I do think protecting financial services is part of protecting British interests.

Sure, some of the activities in banks have cause all manner of problems but that's only part of the FS universe and the sector still employers hundreds of thousands of people and generates a vast amount of revenue for HMT ... has done for decades, and could do for decades more ...

While the financial sector makes a significant contribution to Britains coffers and their interests perhaps should be protected; it makes no sense to potentially sacrifice all our other business with europe, manufacturing for instance.

Mad Roadie

well its about time - Cameron stuck up for the Uk and the strongest industry we have left - referendum comes?
praise the man for having the guts to say 'non' - the euro, as someone said before, was a doomed experiment, which didnt put the constraints in place, which it is now seeking, before it was unified.

if switzerland is the model to follow then bring it on - if only we were as financially sound as the Swiss we would be v happy

LeicesterLad

Tom Dean wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

Not that I have any sympathy with the man or his policies,but, firkin' 'ell what's the chances of Cameron pleasing anybody nevermind everybody over the next 48hours or so with his european escapade.

Yeah he will get a lot of stick either way, far too many people forgetting that originally Labour wanted to Join the euro. Bleedin good job they didn't!

Thanks to Gordon Brown

not got much else to thank that sub-human dipstick for.

daviesee

LeicesterLad wrote:

not got much else to thank that sub-human dipstick for.

Not wrong about the sentiment but a bit harsh. No?

Mad Roadie

daviesee wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

not got much else to thank that sub-human dipstick for.

Not wrong about the sentiment but a bit harsh. No?

"a bit harsh"? I would have said very restrained!!

daviesee

Sold the gold too cheap.
Balanced out by not joining the Euro.
Borrowed too much, even when times were good - Any Labour Exchequer would have done that.
Let the banks ruin the Country - Any Exchequer would have done that.
Lack of personality and appearance - Not important in a politician. For me. Get the job done.

Okay. He got the job done badly but as I have pointed out, I think that has more to do with the position than the man.

I have no like for the man. Never did. But I think the personal attack is too harsh. That is all.

Jez mon

Frank the tank wrote:

wildmoustache wrote:

Er ... I do think protecting financial services is part of protecting British interests.

Sure, some of the activities in banks have cause all manner of problems but that's only part of the FS universe and the sector still employers hundreds of thousands of people and generates a vast amount of revenue for HMT ... has done for decades, and could do for decades more ...

While the financial sector makes a significant contribution to Britains coffers and their interests perhaps should be protected; it makes no sense to potentially sacrifice all our other business with europe, manufacturing for instance.

Protecting the two isn't mutually exclusive, and I can't think of many British exports which go down well in a recession. We're generally good at sports cars, and jet engines. Fortunately, there is a lot of new money out east...

OffTheBackAdam

He's just the fall-guy for the minute.
http://raedwald.blogspot.com/2011/12/26 ... 8-now.html
"There is no certainty that Ireland, Austria, the Netherlands, Romania and Denmark can be part of a new treaty without Referenda, and given the current right-wing and nationalistic mood across Europe, considerable doubt that their respective Federasts will win the vote. There are additional hurdles to Finland, Latvia and the Czech Republic signing up. Hungary says it was misunderstood."

"But consider the real potential of the way this might shake-out; the UK, Ireland, the Netherlands, Austria and Finland together as a low-regulation, high productivity, outer-Europe, with the UK (as Coney Island mentioned in previous comments) as a sort of Hong Kong, linking Europe to Asia and the Americas as an even stronger and more powerful financial centre"

Now, if "Call me Dave" has balls enough to go down this route....

Edit.
Things aren't what they seem!
http://thefrogsalittlehot.blogspot.com/ ... spair.html


(Also, once one country's used its veto, no other has to, we blinked first, who's sat there thinking "Thank fark for that!"?)

verylonglegs

In all fairness to the smooth-skinned operator there are too many conflicting reports about what exactly has and hasn't been said for us to judge whether he's played a blinder or not. A fair bit more distance in this one methinks.

pb21

So Britain has sidelined itself inorder to prevent regulations being imposed on the financial sector. Flaming hell. its the lack of 'safeguards' that is the main factor for the state we are in now!

I really cant see any benefit of being on the periphery of Europe whatsoever, other than the appeasement of Dave's Eurosceptic fellow MPs and some good press in the Mail.

verylonglegs

pb21 wrote:

So Britain has sidelined itself inorder to prevent regulations being imposed on the financial sector. Flaming hell. its the lack of 'safeguards' that is the main factor for the state we are in now!

I really cant see any benefit of being on the periphery of Europe whatsoever, other than the appeasement of Dave's Eurosceptic fellow MPs and some good press in the Mail.

You can't see any benefit from staying away from a political project that has ruined the lives of thousands of people in Spain, Ireland, Greece etc? You say it's purely down to protection of the financial sector but we have absolutely no evidence of what was asked for in the discussions.

pb21

verylonglegs wrote:

pb21 wrote:

So Britain has sidelined itself inorder to prevent regulations being imposed on the financial sector. Flaming hell. its the lack of 'safeguards' that is the main factor for the state we are in now!

I really cant see any benefit of being on the periphery of Europe whatsoever, other than the appeasement of Dave's Eurosceptic fellow MPs and some good press in the Mail.

You can't see any benefit from staying away from a political project that has ruined the lives of thousands of people in Spain, Ireland, Greece etc? You say it's purely down to protection of the financial sector but we have absolutely no evidence of what was asked for in the discussions.

What has been the main factor, by a very long way, that has led to peoples lives being ruined is the lack of financial regulation in neo liberal economies (what the likes of Sarkozy are now asking for), leading to the banking crisis. The economic project of the Eurozone, whilst complicating matters isn't, the cause in the first place.

Anyway I think it would be better to get as close as possible to fix it as best as possible. You don't run away from a burning house while there are people still inside, you would try and help as best you can.

bagpusscp

....or we could end up like Greece and Italy with unelected tec-no crats in charge...rubber stamped by Germany and its poddle.....an all together dangerous road to travel down :!:

wildmoustache

Jez mon wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

wildmoustache wrote:

Er ... I do think protecting financial services is part of protecting British interests.

Sure, some of the activities in banks have cause all manner of problems but that's only part of the FS universe and the sector still employers hundreds of thousands of people and generates a vast amount of revenue for HMT ... has done for decades, and could do for decades more ...

While the financial sector makes a significant contribution to Britains coffers and their interests perhaps should be protected; it makes no sense to potentially sacrifice all our other business with europe, manufacturing for instance.

Protecting the two isn't mutually exclusive, and I can't think of many British exports which go down well in a recession. We're generally good at sports cars, and jet engines. Fortunately, there is a lot of new money out east...

Forget about sports cars - miniscule.

I think Europe is heading in a direction that will end up in riots and quite possibly revolutions in some counties. They are compounding the problems by straightjacketing national governments. The only choice, and the sensible one, is for the weakest economies to leave the euro.

MaxwellBygraves

More right-wing rhetoric from Cameron and the media. Money and power, like all politicians, is all they care about.

Good article here - http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... NTCMP=SRCH

verylonglegs

MaxwellBygraves wrote:

More right-wing rhetoric from Cameron and the media. Money and power, like all politicians, is all they care about.

Good article here - http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... NTCMP=SRCH

Sorry but that article is no better than the nonsense from the right-wing, it's just the other side of the coin. Nobody knows what the outcome is because very little has actually been decided and indeed implemented yet people are claiming all sorts of triumphs/failures depending on their political persuasions.

Frank the tank

verylonglegs wrote:

MaxwellBygraves wrote:

More right-wing rhetoric from Cameron and the media. Money and power, like all politicians, is all they care about.

Good article here - http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... NTCMP=SRCH

Sorry but that article is no better than the nonsense from the right-wing, it's just the other side of the coin. Nobody knows what the outcome is because very little has actually been decided and indeed implemented yet people are claiming all sorts of triumphs/failures depending on their political persuasions.

Whilst I am of left wing views I do tend to agree with verylonglegs on this. All the pundits and experts are commenting (as you would expect) but NO ONE KNOWS how this whole sorry mess will pan out. I do however feel Cameron has left us out on a limb as we will be excluded from big decision making processes. I believe that had he "signed up" the deal was about working out the eurozone problem not handing powers over to unelected beauracrats. I admit I'm commenting from a position of ignorance however I do believe IF THE EUROZONE collapses it will have a devastating effect on our ecconomy. Due to Cameron appeasing his own eurosceptic MP's this nation is now excluded from vital discussions while other nations with nowhere near as much to lose will have their twopenn'th.

daviesee

Why is everyone getting het up about this?

We are not using the Euro and as such, any "bargaining powers" were always going to be severely diluted.
All Cameron has done is speed up the inevitable instead of delaying real negotiations by raising irrelevant issues.
If he has the answer, then I am sure that they will listen. Trouble is, no one has the answer. Not an easy one at least.

All this talk about having to be in the discussions because it affects us? Well, the strength of the Dollar affects the world economy and we don't expect to be in Washington. China's ecomony affects us yet we do not expect to be in Beijing. Why should Brussels be any different?

If he had pulled out of the European Union, I would understand but all he has done is pulled out of negotiations about a currency that we don't use. We don't use it. We have no say.