Lightweight Wheelset - Real Advantage?

Stevo210

Just fitted a lightweight wheelset - Pro2Evo/Crest 1530g. Previously running DT Swiss 370/317rims 1984g.

Was out last night for its maiden voyage and it seemed to fly up the climbs with ease. Is this weight saving advantage completely in my head like when you had new trainers as a kid, you could definitely run faster?!! Or is there a science behind it? I hear talk of un-sprung weight but cant get my head round that either.

Any help appreciated.

Pudseyp

To be honest I think its in your head, as possibly on the first time out you pushed yourself more....unless your an avid racer doing the same circuit and getting the same time then weight reduction will probably pay dividends....400 gramms to average Joe imo would not make any difference....it could be your getting better engagement from the new hub etc..

Stevo210

Well that's thoroughly disappointing
Must have had the wind behind me.......

Pudseyp

Stevo210 wrote:

Well that's thoroughly disappointing
Must have had the wind behind me.......

Like I said IMO....when I have bought new components or a new bike the first time out I have shaved minutes off my times at the likes of llandegla...I think though its me just pushing that bit harder to prove the upgrades have made a difference.

cooldad

Wheels do make a big difference, much bigger than saving weight elsewhere.
Good info on sprung/unsprung weight here - relates to motorcycles but the principle is the same
http://www.mb1suspension.com/id102.html

Stevo210

Thanks for that link, that seems to back up what I experienced.

lawman

lighter wheels make a huge difference to how a bike rides, if it didnt we'd all be on bomb proof 5kg sets wouldnt we

500 odd grammes is hugely noticable to anyone, you dont have to be a genius to notice its a hell of a lot easier to pick up some speed for a given amount of energy

delcol

i would of thought it would make a difference, especially when climbing...

food for thought.. how do light weight wheels compaire in strength, when things point down and get technical...

Pudseyp

lawman wrote:

lighter wheels make a huge difference to how a bike rides, if it didnt we'd all be on bomb proof 5kg sets wouldnt we

500 odd grammes is hugely noticable to anyone, you dont have to be a genius to notice its a hell of a lot easier to pick up some speed for a given amount of energy

Does it really, OK less weight means more efficiency but would it make a HUGE difference...OK I agree with your 5KG statement but you could have a light wheelset and a crap hub that would not increase speed or heavier wheels and a quality hub with better engagement for better pick up and traction...rolling resistance is also important...

If someone strapped half a kilo to my frame I don't think I would see any difference in my climbing ability or times..IMO 400 gramms like I said to average Joe would not make a significant differnce..

The avid racer probably yes the weekend warrior probably no

Not trying to belittle anyone..it's just my opinion...

Thewaylander

yes it does make a difference,

Its rotating mass with makes a bigger difference, but also think of it as ratio's, if you take 1/2Kg from yourself, as a proportion of your weight its not much, from your bike its a much larger proportion. there is alot of physics but you can't trat bike+human as a single object in terms of efficency.

But the down side to light wheels is flexy as sin and less stability, and I prefer heavier wheels becuase i prefer the downs.

cooldad

Take a half kilo weight, tie it to a piece of string foot or so long and spin it around your head. You'll feel the kinetic energy. Now hit someone with it.

lawman

Pudseyp wrote:

lawman wrote:

lighter wheels make a huge difference to how a bike rides, if it didnt we'd all be on bomb proof 5kg sets wouldnt we

500 odd grammes is hugely noticable to anyone, you dont have to be a genius to notice its a hell of a lot easier to pick up some speed for a given amount of energy

Does it really, OK less weight means more efficiency but would it make a HUGE difference...OK I agree with your 5KG statement but you could have a light wheelset and a crap hub that would not increase speed or heavier wheels and a quality hub with better engagement for better pick up and traction...rolling resistance is also important...

If someone strapped half a kilo to my frame I don't think I would see any difference in my climbing ability or times..IMO 400 gramms like I said to average Joe would not make a significant differnce..

The avid racer probably yes the weekend warrior probably no

Not trying to belittle anyone..it's just my opinion...

well it just so happens, ive done a fairly fair comparison with identical hubs (hope pro2), tyres (schwalbe nobby nic 2.25 evo), but different rims (mavic xm719 and stans crest) about 250grams difference between the bare wheelsets, and the crests do indeed feel easier to get upto speed, and hold speed better most of the time... i aint no xc racer, but i sure as hell noticed it

Chunkers1980

cooldad wrote:

Take a half kilo weight, tie it to a piece of string foot or so long and spin it around your head. You'll feel the kinetic energy. Now hit someone with it.

Which is why the weight of the hub, is not so important as the rim, and tyre assembly's weight.

FBM.BMX

Big difference noticed here.

Went from 2700g wheels + DH tyres (high rollers) to 2000g wheels + single ply tubeless tyres (swampthings).

It made the absolute world of difference, made my bike faster and more poppy and fun.

I agree with some of the comments above, if you're a in the saddle, spinning an easy gear all the time type of rider, it isn't going to make much difference to the bike handling for them, also won't make pedalling much different for them as their spinny pedalling doesn't produce much change in momentum (that's what your experiencing, energy (change in momentum)).

If you're someone who lays the power down (big change in momentum, more energy) looking for fast acceleration and like to chuck you bike around, it'll make a big difference.

MountainMonster

cooldad wrote:

Take a half kilo weight, tie it to a piece of string foot or so long and spin it around your head. You'll feel the kinetic energy. Now hit someone with it.

Most important post in the thread, IMO.

Pudseyp

cooldad wrote:

Take a half kilo weight, tie it to a piece of string foot or so long and spin it around your head. You'll feel the kinetic energy. Now hit someone with it.

Brace yourself......

I must be thick...200 odd gramms per wheel equates to 2.5 gramms per inch on the rolling circumference...the weight is dispersed...yes I appreciate that in general less weight in motion increases speed but I still cannot see how it would make a significant difference...

delcol

beacause it takes less force to move it, thus using less energy....

supersonic

the weight is dispersed

Not sure what you mean!

Lighter wheels take less energy to accelerate to a given rotational speed, and is not a linear factor, there are squaredsy bits in the formula. Of course our friend Isaac says "you can't get summat for owt", so the flip side is that heavier wheels will hold energy ie momentum. Is that good or bad?

Overall though, a lighter wheel, especially lighter at the circumference will 'feel' lighter than the weight savings suggest. Faster to get up to speed. The best upgrade most people can make to their bikes is lighter tyres for this reason. It really does make more difference than the static mass suggests. Cos it moves in circles.

jallll

it's a great upgrade, i owne some kibikes wheelset http://www.kibikes.com/KIBIKES/Inicio.html with titanium spokes, and the change is so big that it's impossible you can't notice it...

cooldad

Pity about the stupid prices.

jallll

of the wheels?? well it's your opinion, i think the prizes are ok, if you want a really good wheelset, the prize of an slr set is stupid http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=15747 , an craftsman work with lifetime warranty... or it's the same a spezialed frame and a turner or ventana?
and the feels with titanium spokes in a ht is so sweet.... i don't want another set of normal wheels while i can afford it... :oops: :oops:

leevil knievil

Where would people recommend getting a new wheelset from, would it be best to get a stock set or go for something a bit more personal looked at crc wheelsets and the custom section, are they the cheapest about ?, looking for something AM, any advice on rims and hubs would be appreciated, thanks.

jallll

which amount of money could you spend?? that's the first thing to know, and for what use are the wheels? your weight? theres a lot of things that is needed to know.. are you going to use they tubeless? how is light for you..... :?: :?:

these where mi am wheels, from kibikes too, i have sell it because i will not use a 26er again..... 1540 with arch, marwiti and hope pro 2..... the same with dt swiss comp is about 1750, and i think that merlin will be a better choice, they usually have all on stock...


By jallll at 2011-12-09


By jallll at 2011-12-09


By jallll at 2011-12-09

sorry if my english is not too good :shock: :shock: , i'm from spain..

leevil knievil

Money isnt really a problem, although dont want to spend a fortune it will be for riding trail centres and around the peaks, i am riding at the moment with stock wheels on a cube stereo sunringle xmb wheels not sure of the weights but was looking at hope hubs as a starting place, will have a look at the merlin site.

jallll

hope hoops with flow is a great choice too

leevil knievil

Just need to know what length axle i would need for a syntace x12 fitting, would it be 135mm or 140mm not sure, the sunringle hub i think is 135mm but has a special hub fitting on one side to take it to 140mm. Anyone on here have hope hubs on there cube stereo,

Andy B

The X12 axle is a part of the frame so you only need a X12 compatible hub

supersonic

Hope hubs? Thought you might have gone for a lightweight option.

leevil knievil

supersonic wrote:

Hope hubs? Thought you might have gone for a lightweight option.

It does not have to be hope if you you look at my post i am after advice, something that fits would be a good start anything thats compatible, i am after going lighter so would like some options, i do not know the weight of my wheels but i am guessing with the fat alberts on at the moment they are over 2kgs. I will weigh them at some point, I am 95 kg at the moment quite a big build but there is some lard there. I will probably need some new wheels soon anyway the teeth on my hub are slightly worn had to replace the pawl teeth a couple of weeks ago, see post.

viewtopic.php?t=12814206

Northwind

Pudseyp wrote:

.400 gramms to average Joe imo would not make any difference....it could be your getting better engagement from the new hub etc..

400 grams is a big difference. OTOH hub engagement is a tiny difference (as long as they're working correctly anyway). Not sure why you'd think you have to be a racer to feel a difference like this- the difference is exactly the same whether you race or not.

I guarantee you I could pepsi-taste-challenge my 721s, my Flows and my Traversees and tell you which is which. Though it's likely I'd ride into a tree or something in the process.

cooldad

Northwind wrote:

Pudseyp wrote:

.400 gramms to average Joe imo would not make any difference....it could be your getting better engagement from the new hub etc..

400 grams is a big difference. OTOH hub engagement is a tiny difference (as long as they're working correctly anyway). Not sure why you'd think you have to be a racer to feel a difference like this- the difference is exactly the same whether you race or not.

I guarantee you I could pepsi-taste-challenge my 721s, my Flows and my Traversees and tell you which is which. Though it's likely I'd ride into a tree or something in the process.

Try it.
POIDH