Is my saddle too far back?

JimboPlob

Hi

I have been experimenting with a position change on my bike. In general, I feel much more comfortable and solid on the bike. I can ride low while on the tops and feel like there isn't much weight at all going through my upper body/arms.

I have been riding with the new position for a while now, but am finding my hamstrings are pretty tired (like they are right on their limit between DOMS and injury). I am not sure if this is because I am now recruiting them more and they are getting used to it, or my saddle is too far back? (I did have to ease off recently after doing a longer ride in the drops, hamstring was tender)

When moving from the hoods to the drops, would one expect more weight to be transferred to the upper body/arms? At the moment I feel like the bulk of my weight is on the sit bones but unsure if I would benefit from moving the saddle forward a little. I don't feel as powerful in the drops.

Thanks

sub55

you could try the traditional way to determine such things

LightningTony

If you are getting pain whilst riding it is, by definition, not DOMS, because that stands for delayed onset muscle soreness. DOMS is what you get when you go down the gym and lift a few weights having done nothing for a while. The delay is 24 to 48 hours. What you describe is almost certainly positional related discomfort.
You don't actually say what position change you made; as a rough guide I always advise people to get there saddle fore-aft position right first. Why? Because the force required to drive the pedals around is transmitted through your knee jointsand hip joints, and human biomechanics dictate more or less the best angles they operate at. You can change your hip joint angle quite a lot, by adjusting reach and handlbar height. In fact the drop bars are designed to allow us to do just that even as we ride, but knee angles are much less forgiving. Sacrificing optimum knee joint angle for the sake of your aerodynamic position will usually be counterproductive. Sounds like you need a decent bike fit, which I guess is what the last post is referring to.

sub55

which I guess is what the last post is referring to

no the traditional method is even simpliar than a bike fit.
Basically , you get an allen key , move the saddle and see what happens . shock horror

OfficerDigby

LightningTony wrote:

You don't actually say what position change you made; as a rough guide I always advise people to get there saddle fore-aft position right first. Why? Because the force required to drive the pedals around is transmitted through your knee jointsand hip joints, and human biomechanics dictate more or less the best angles they operate at. You can change your hip joint angle quite a lot, by adjusting reach and handlbar height. In fact the drop bars are designed to allow us to do just that even as we ride, but knee angles are much less forgiving. Sacrificing optimum knee joint angle for the sake of your aerodynamic position will usually be counterproductive. Sounds like you need a decent bike fit, which I guess is what the last post is referring to.

Sorry to interrupt are you talking about setting KOPS as most efficient knee angles?
Only in my case setting KOPS even with LONG (13-14cm) stem puts me too far forward on bike and not stretched out enough (long back short femur - I guess). Aren't pros setting themselves significantly behind KOPS?

ta

John.T

OfficerDigby wrote:

Sorry to interrupt are you talking about setting KOPS as most efficient knee angles?
Only in my case setting KOPS even with LONG (13-14cm) stem puts me too far forward on bike and not stretched out enough (long back short femur - I guess). Aren't pros setting themselves significantly behind KOPS?
ta

KOPS has nothing to do with knee angle. Saddle height does that. KOPS adjusts your body weight relative to the BB. Bar height and reach dictates how this weight is distributed between the bars and saddle. KOPS should only be used as a starting point for setting up. Depending on your physiology you could end up in front or behind it by a fair bit.
To the OP. If you have moved your saddle back and not changed anything else you will have closed your hip angle up so will be stretching your hamstrings more. If you think the saddle is in the right place then raise the bars (or fit a shorter stem if you now feel stretched out). Alternatively do some hamstring stretches.

Zoomer37

Would help to know how much of an adustment you made. Its millimeter game to get these bikes fitting correctly so if you've cranked it back by a lot you may need to make smaller adjustments at a time and go riding to see how things feel.

Fore-aft id make real small changes 1 - 3mm a time max

LightningTony

John.T wrote:

OfficerDigby wrote:

Sorry to interrupt are you talking about setting KOPS as most efficient knee angles?
Only in my case setting KOPS even with LONG (13-14cm) stem puts me too far forward on bike and not stretched out enough (long back short femur - I guess). Aren't pros setting themselves significantly behind KOPS?
ta

KOPS has nothing to do with knee angle. Saddle height does that. KOPS adjusts your body weight relative to the BB. Bar height and reach dictates how this weight is distributed between the bars and saddle. KOPS should only be used as a starting point for setting up. Depending on your physiology you could end up in front or behind it by a fair bit.
To the OP. If you have moved your saddle back and not changed anything else you will have closed your hip angle up so will be stretching your hamstrings more. If you think the saddle is in the right place then raise the bars (or fit a shorter stem if you now feel stretched out). Alternatively do some hamstring stretches.

What I was trying to say in my posting is that setting your knee to pedal position , some of you prefer the term KOPS, is the first and most important thing you need to get right. It has everything to do with knee angle. Each individual will have their own optimum knee to pedal postion. Once that has been established the saddle height that gives them the ideal knee angle can be determined, and there will only be a very narrow range of adjustment around that saddle height. Too low and the knee angle will be too great, too high and the knee angle will be too shallow. After setting the knee to pedal position, then getting height right, reach comes next, and you adjust that by making the bike fit you, to give the best compromise, for you, between comfort, power, and aerodynamics.

The power comes from the angle between the hip and back. Imagine sitting on a leg press machine with the highest weight you could possibly move, and imagine leaning forward so that your back to hip angle reduces; you would not be able to push your legs out. Sit up a bit, until you have the ideal angle and you will be able to push the legs out. This is the same effect as pushing the pedals! Usually the aerodynamic position produces a smaller angle than ideal, which is why it is less comfortable, and produces less power, but then the lower wind resistance compensates and you go faster.

Always build your strength and power from less extreme positions then tweak the extremes by experiment to see what you can get away with.

I agree that trial and error with an allen key on a long ride is one way of doing it, however you really need your starting point to be quite good before that level of tweaking.