Early Sunday races

Herbsman

Basically, they're races for drivers. It's almost elitism, even if it's unintentional.

Do you think organisers can be persuaded to change this so that people who don't have a car can get to their races on the train?

I know it makes sense to start a race before (or after) peak traffic flow, but it's a bit unfair on people who don't have a motor vehicle.

Monty Dog

Races generally start earlier because the roads are quieter and allow you to get a race in before the proletariat haul their fat backsides in their 4x4s and clog up the roads by driving to garden centres.

blackhands

If you are talking about Time Trials - there are rules about traffic volumes. High volumes are not only potentially dangerous, but also give a unfair advantage (esp for later starters where the traffic is likley to be heavier).

In the case of Road Races, often there is a race in the morning and one in the afternoon. Generally, the morning ones are for lower categories (eg 3/4) and are shorter so start at a reasonable time (say 10.00) You need a decent gap between the start of one race and the beginning of the next to give marshals and officials a break.

DavidJB

Could go up the night before on the train and stay in a really crappy hotel?

Torvid

Or make friends with someone who races near you with a car and chip in to petrol costs.

SBezza

I have ridden 40 miles to get to a race that started (for me) at 07:15, just means getting up early to ride there. It is obviously easier if you have a car, but it is possible within reason to actually be able to ride out to alot of local races.

Alternatively as mentioned by Torvid, get to know someone that is willing to share a lift and help them with the travelling costs, winner all round.

DavidBelcher

blackhands wrote:

If you are talking about Time Trials - there are rules about traffic volumes. High volumes are not only potentially dangerous, but also give a unfair advantage (esp for later starters where the traffic is likley to be heavier).

Never understood why Sunday TTs are morning affairs, when Saturday events - when one would expect the roads to be a tad busier - usually happen early in the afternoon, even on a busy trunk road courses.

David

DavidBelcher

Torvid wrote:

Or make friends with someone who races near you with a car and chip in to petrol costs.

Or change your discipline - cyclo-cross races are often a relative doddle to get to by rail; despite being a non-driver I usually manage to do 10-12 events a season. Being based in the South with the incentive of the useful Network Railcard (which in theory can get me discounted fares as far north as Worcester!) helps.

David

John.T

DavidBelcher wrote:

blackhands wrote:

If you are talking about Time Trials - there are rules about traffic volumes. High volumes are not only potentially dangerous, but also give a unfair advantage (esp for later starters where the traffic is likley to be heavier).

Never understood why Sunday TTs are morning affairs, when Saturday events - when one would expect the roads to be a tad busier - usually happen early in the afternoon, even on a busy trunk road courses.
David

The times TTs are permitted result from traffic counts. Several courses have recently had more restrictions placed on them. These times are all listed in the CTT handbook.

Herbsman

Monty Dog wrote:

Races generally start earlier because the roads are quieter and allow you to get a race in before the proletariat haul their fat backsides in their 4x4s and clog up the roads by driving to garden centres.

I know... that's why I said "I know it makes sense to start a race before (or after) peak traffic flow"

blackhands wrote:

In the case of Road Races, often there is a race in the morning and one in the afternoon. Generally, the morning ones are for lower categories (eg 3/4) and are shorter so start at a reasonable time (say 10.00) You need a decent gap between the start of one race and the beginning of the next to give marshals and officials a break.

I'm not sure how any of that is relevant, or how that's supposed to help me. All of the weekend road races within 30 miles of my house that I could have entered this year started before any trains even started running. Hence me starting this thread....

DavidJB wrote:

Could go up the night before on the train and stay in a really crappy hotel?

I have considered this and camping. May actually do that...

Torvid wrote:

Or make friends with someone who races near you with a car and chip in to petrol costs.

I already have, and did do this year. But it's not good having to be dependent on someone else and having to keep asking them for lifts every time you want a ride.

SBezza wrote:

I have ridden 40 miles to get to a race that started (for me) at 07:15, just means getting up early to ride there. It is obviously easier if you have a car, but it is possible within reason to actually be able to ride out to alot of local races.

It's tempting sometimes, but 40 miles, really?! Fair play to you. The most I rode was 20; didn't leave the small ring at any time. Although I kept the carbs flowing throughout the journey and made a conscious effort to go easy, I felt it affected my performance during the race a bit.

Pseudonym

Herbsman wrote:

Basically, they're races for drivers. It's almost elitism, even if it's unintentional.

it's not really 'elitism' if the majority arrive by car. I know you probably didn't want to hear that, but there we are.

I used to know of a guy who travelled to races on a moped, with his frame strapped to the back of his rucksack (which carried his kit) and his wheels strapped either side of the moped....

jgsi

Didnt know it was so tough down south
:shock:

SBezza

Herbsman wrote:

SBezza wrote:

I have ridden 40 miles to get to a race that started (for me) at 07:15, just means getting up early to ride there. It is obviously easier if you have a car, but it is possible within reason to actually be able to ride out to alot of local races.

It's tempting sometimes, but 40 miles, really?! Fair play to you. The most I rode was 20; didn't leave the small ring at any time. Although I kept the carbs flowing throughout the journey and made a conscious effort to go easy, I felt it affected my performance during the race a bit.

Yep left home at 04:30, arrived just after 06:30. Got changed into my skinsuit and sorted myself out, and then rode a 50 mile TT at very decent power. If you are used to long rides I don't think it presents much of an issue, perhaps mentally but not physically. Will do it a couple of times next year as well, if it's the only way to get to a race then so be it. All amounts to good training in the end.

Riding home afterwards was a different story though, felt absolutely knackered, and it was a bit of a grovelling 45 miles, avoiding the main roads.

Lookyhere

Can you really expect organisers to consult a train/bus time table for the tiny minority who may not have access to a car? i suppose next you ll ask for courses to be nr a railway station :roll:

I accept its tough for you and we did leave the race hq open a few minutes longer for a guy who travelled down by train, but that can have a knock on effect for the next event etc. (he did win some money, perhaps putting it towards a car :idea: )

ozzzyosborn206

it sounds harsh but i think you just have to deal with it, why don't you drive? would it be possible to maybe hire a car if you don't want to can't buy one then maybe you may be able to help others in the same situation. I live in guernsey so for me to do any races in england i have to get the boat across then drive up to the race normally have to stay the saturday night in a hotel or b&b race the sunday drive back to weymouth sunday, stay in a b&b then get the boat back at about 6am monday morning...........

maryka

Can you join a car club? I did that when I lived in the Netherlands (never had a need for a car other than racing) and it was really great -- just got a car for the few hours every week or two that I needed it and left it parked otherwise for others to use. Used to cost something like 2 euros an hour plus 10 cents per km or some such. Well worth it.

Herbsman

I'll just say that I started racing on a bike because I love riding a bike, not because I love driving a car. It's just sad that car ownership / car access has to be a prerequisite for competing in a bicycle race.

DavidBelcher

Herbsman wrote:

I'll just say that I started racing on a bike because I love riding a bike, not because I love driving a car. It's just sad that car ownership / car access has to be a prerequisite for competing in a bicycle race.

Couldn't agree more. As I said, I'm lucky that in my chosen discipline, using the train to get to races is usually a realistic option (Sunday engineering work permitting!!). At weekends at least, train companies' bike policies are much better than when I first started taking my bike by rail and the dreaded reservation fees have been abolished which is great.

David

Pseudonym

Herbsman wrote:

It's just sad that car ownership / car access has to be a prerequisite for competing in a bicycle race.

there's nothing on the BC entry forms about car ownership...?? Races are advertised well in advance with location and start times. How anyone gets there is up to them. Most people just get on with it...

Monty Dog

Join a cycling club and car share? With the price of petrol, folks are generally happy to share the costs and it'll probably be cheaper than the bus or train.

Johnpsanderson

Herbsman wrote:

It's just sad that car ownership / car access has to be a prerequisite for competing in a bicycle race.

That's the hazard of getting involved in a minority sport. What about track riders? Even worse!

Out of interest - are you actively doing anything to create provision that suits your needs?

thegibdog

Herbsman wrote:

It's just sad that car ownership / car access has to be a prerequisite for competing in a bicycle race.

It's not a prerequisite though, is it. There are lots of situations in life where access to a car is advantageous, that's only to be expected when the majority of the country have access to a car. But you don't need access to a car to get to an early morning race, there are alternatives as mentioned previously.

Herbsman

Monty Dog wrote:

Join a cycling club and car share? With the price of petrol, folks are generally happy to share the costs and it'll probably be cheaper than the bus or train.

I am in a cycling club, and I do get lifts off other people. But not everyone can do that - that's my point - it would be good not to have to rely on someone having a spare seat in their car.

Even the people in my club who own cars used to get trains to races when possible, rather than driving.

Johnpsanderson wrote:

Herbsman wrote:

It's just sad that car ownership / car access has to be a prerequisite for competing in a bicycle race.

That's the hazard of getting involved in a minority sport. What about track riders? Even worse!

Out of interest - are you actively doing anything to create provision that suits your needs?

Good question, and the answer is no. What do you think I could do, other than write letters to organisers? I know quite a few people in the same position as me. One or two have bought a van or a car just so they can race. Others only go to races that they can ride to or get the train to - all mid-week or Saturday afternoon closed circuit races. But all the good road races start at 0900-0930 on a Sunday. Hardly any trains leave this city until 0945 on a Sunday.

I don't need to point out that a lot of people are getting pay cuts, having their hours cut or being made redundant and the cost of running a motor vehicle is increasing all the time. It will be interesting to see how many people can still afford the luxury of driving to races next year compared to last. I know if I was organising races I'd want as many people as possible to be able to ride. If that meant making it possible to get there by train then I'd certainly consider starting later.

SBezza

If a race is important, travel the day before and sleep overnight. I happen to race all over the country, and although I drive, if I have a 06:00 start (so even earlier than a late start road race , I class 09:00 as a latish start), I have to stay overnight in a hotel, as a 4 hour plus drive sometimes means a very early start. Other alternatives are camping, B&B's etc. Anything up to 50 miles I think is rideable however, just means waking up a little earlier and planning food intake. Once you get used to riding to an event, racing and then riding home it is fairly easy to do.

As mentioned road events, be they TT's or road races, are limited to when they can run, either by police advice, or traffic counts on the roads used. No doubt the organisor would ideally have a later start, but it just might not be possible.

John.T

I know if I was organising races I'd want as many people as possible to be able to ride. If that meant making it possible to get there by train then I'd certainly consider starting later.

You could always try doing this. More organisers are always welcome and it may start a trend which you will benefit from. With good organisation you could also ride your own event.

Johnpsanderson

What do you think I could do, other than write letters to organisers?

You could always try organising events. More organisers are always welcome and it may start a trend which you will benefit from. With good organisation you could also ride your own event.

JohnT has beaten me to it. I was in a similar boat - not having the race provision that suited me - so I stuck my neck out and organised some races. And if you know a number of people in the same boat then you have a pool of people to draw on already!

Pseudonym

ironically, if he becomes a race organiser, he will probably have to get to the race HQ even earlier than he does now...

Johnpsanderson

Not if he can master the art of delegation :-D

Herbsman

SBezza wrote:

If a race is important, travel the day before and sleep overnight.

I may just start doing this...

Tom Butcher

As a race organiser i've always assumed that early Sunday was the most convenient time for most people. I accept it wont be the most convenient for everyone - and maybe my assumption is based on the fact it's the most convenient time for me therefore it will be for most others - but I suspect if I put on a race mid afternoon that I'd get fewer entries. If you've got an afternoon race you are just kicking your heels all morning really - well I would be - I'd rather get up, out, race and get home in time for a late lunch and maybe do something in the afternoon like taking the kids or dogs out.
OK so some people don't have cars but I'm not convinced many people without cars would actually take a train to a race. I'm not unsympathetic and if afternoon races proved tremendously popular I'm sure that could start a trend - but I just can't see it.

Pross

Most races in my area you wouldn't be able to get to by train at any time of day as they tend to be out in the sticks. I can't say I've ever even thought of it as a problem as even when I was a junior and couldn't drive there would always be club mates happy to give me a lift. I would have thought the same would apply even more now that fuel is so expensive and people would be grateful to share their costs. That said, I have a friend who doesn't drive who struggles to take her son to youth races.

There are enough difficulties for race organisers to think about when arranging a course and start time such as sorting out course risk assessments and gaining police and local authority consent without having to consider the tiny minority of people who cannot get there by riding, driving or lift sharing. Maybe you could organise a road race yourself to get an idea of exactly what is involved, it can then suit whatever local train times it needs to.