Sat Nav

butcher of bakersfield

So, I keep getting lost.

I'd like to get an idea of peoples experiences of sat nav, and best products to go for. The amount of times I find myself wading through a foot of mud, taking a short cut across a field which may or may not take me in the rough direction I'm aiming for, is becoming an increasingly large number.

There have been times where it has crossed my mind that I might not make it back home at all! So I'm figuring that the expense may be worth it..?

I know very little about it though, especially running it off-road, so I ask.....is it? Worth it, that is.

camerauk

for a quick fix why not take a OS map with you.
I have a Dakota 20 with the OS maps I find it great, but I also carry a map just incase(although its never been needed)

butcher of bakersfield

I printed one out once. And still got lost. Took a wrong turn within the first 100 yards...

That's what I want to hear about though. I mean is it all that much better than a map really? I'm sure it is. But £300 better?

Raymondavalon

What you really need is a GPS that does OS maps and real time navigation. I have a Garmin eTrex Legend, an oldie but it does the job.

I also have a "smart phone" that has Google Maps as a default application
Now to be honest, I've never have and never will mount any phone on my handlebars, that's just lame, but I do carry it in my Hyrdapak.
I've used it maybe three times over the past three or so years when I am "lost" or want to know where I am
The fact you can use the Map view, Google Earth view and the hybrid Map/Earth combo has made it quite handy for getting myself out of a navigational fail or finding my bearings.
It also gives directions, but those don't quite come into the equation when off road, but could be handy for navigating in forest roads or perhaps fire breaks.

Not quite "SatNav" but it's come in handy when needed

Anonymous

Several levels to choose from.

Blind sense of direction and using the sun, landmarks and memory

Then you've got OS map, compass helps and basic map reading skills with ability to recognise landmarks or keep note of where you're going. Just photocopy/print the bit you want put in a plastic pocket/laminate and that's it. OS maps cheap in the likes of WHSmiths in their offers. Get 1:25000 scale though to ensure you'll get all the little footpaths and bridleways marked. Explorer or Outdoor Leisure maps basically, not Landranger.

Next up, smart phone with GPS, and GPS software. For navigation, View Ranger software is probably the best choice. Can pay for OS maps with it (expensive compared to paper ones, especially at 1:25000), or you can use the free maps like Open Street Map. The latter aren't perfect but they can contain paths and trails that OS won't. On top of that you have GPS tracking software, of which there are many kinds. Some just track, some give a little map so you can see roughly where you are, some can use a preloaded track and you can follow it. Forget Google Maps (once you get to a patch of green, it's just blank, or you can use the satellite views but fields, woods and forests change over the years and trails/paths are hard to see, plus you use up a lot of data).

Then you've got the dedicated GPS devices. Expensive, but often have better quality GPS receivers in them than the little tiny things they have in phones (that said, phones can get a quick lock through A-GPS using the network). They also tend to come with stuff like barometers which gets a much better altitude fix, though for navigation on a bike you don't really need that.

For GPS devices, a smart phone is good enough. There are inherent inaccuracies with GPS and maps of any sort have limitations, even OS maps. Depends where you want to go. If you're following official footpaths and bridleways or main forest tracks, then you should be okay. There are tonnes of unmarked trails however.

rhialto

I have only recently moved to the Lakes area and I have been able to explore the many routes thanks to my satnav setup. I use a Nokia smartphone with Viewranger installed. As I am out exploring solo most of the time and as the OP says, it's easy to get lost, I chose to go with as much detail as possible. I purchased 1:25k OS maps for the Lake District - I think it was £50 for the whole area. I'm not sure why it's lame to mount a phone on your bars but I purchased an iphone motorcycle mount on amazon that is quite stable and provides some weather protection for my phone.

The total cost was about £75. I am still considering a Garmin unit but the Oregon 450 that I want is about £300 and then another £100 for OS maps!

Raymondavalon

dpaulett wrote:

I'm not sure why it's lame to mount a phone on your bars but I purchased an iphone motorcycle mount on amazon that is quite stable and provides some weather protection for my phone.

Whatever turns you on...

mkf

i don't think i'd like to rely on a nav, might get damaged in a crash or run out of power , lose signal too many variables and £300 outlay ↲learn to read a map is the best way imo

Anonymous

dpaulett wrote:

I purchased 1:25k OS maps for the Lake District - I think it was £50 for the whole area.

See that's my point. Same maps on paper, same scale can be had for £20 to £30 depending on the deal and doesn't depend on battery life. View Ranger is nice, but the OS maps at 1:25k are a complete rip off, likewise Memory Map (£100 for Lake District, exact same maps!).

diddyfunk

Hi

I was thinking of asking father Xmas for a Garmin 800.

I want it mainly for getting the GPX files from the Internet (like the ones that feature in MBUK) and then getting it to direct me turn by turn for the whole route.

If I go for the trail bundle with 1:50,000 maps pre-loaded, do the 1:50,000 maps supply enough detail?

Also, say that a trail appears on the GPX route that you have downloaded but not on your pre-loaded map (on the unit), does the unit still direct you ok and tell you when to turn etc? - hope that makes sence?

Any help would be most appreciated.

Many Thanks

delcol

i just got a garmin edge 500 gps. mostly for keeping tabs on my milage and ascent and descent. and some basic fitness stats..
it has basic route planning to keep you on a pre programmed route.. i got it for£135

i only used it once only got it last week, i was impressed with it on my first ride...

i know the garmin edge 800 is better this offers full mapping os maps displayed on screen. as well as riding stats...

rhialto

deadkenny wrote:

dpaulett wrote:

I purchased 1:25k OS maps for the Lake District - I think it was £50 for the whole area.

See that's my point. Same maps on paper, same scale can be had for £20 to £30 depending on the deal and doesn't depend on battery life. View Ranger is nice, but the OS maps at 1:25k are a complete rip off, likewise Memory Map (£100 for Lake District, exact same maps!).

You are absolutely correct - the OS maps are costly and the pricing is messed up. However, I need the maps in order to navigate in areas I have never visited before, while I am moving, sometimes at speed. Stopping every time there is a fork in the trail to check a paper map in the rain is a sub-optimal solution for me. It surprised me how much longer it took me to get around a route the first time when I had to stop to check a paper map periodically. I did this for years and I much prefer the satnav option. It also records where I have been so when I get home I can log my routes and correct for any navigational issues.

Anyway, the map cost is low compared to the value of my time and the convenience of it. As with all things, your mileage may vary. There's nothing wrong with stopping and checking a map. You can smell the roses at the same time as the saying goes.

To address a couple of issues raised previously, even with a satnav and OS maps, you still need to be able to read a topographic map out on the trail. I also carry a paper map and spare batteries just in case. My remaining concern is if I trash my satnav, say in a crash, there goes my phone, which is not ideal if you are injured out on the trail.

butcher of bakersfield

Crikey, I thought the £100 would get you the entire country, so that you didn't need to worry about any of that crap anymore...

I may well just get a paper map of the local area if that's the case and save around £400!

Though the idea idea of something that tells you 'Woah! Woah! You're going the wrong way you idiot!' sounds rather appealing ... the amount of times I've cycled MILES in the wrong direction, only to have to turn back and start from scratch after a lengthy detour...

Briggo

Why do you need 1:25? For the Garmin and such like 1:50 is perfectly adequate especially when you've planned your route alread, its not like there are many areas in the UK miles from anything to be able to use a bit of common sense and the detail of the 1:50 to work out where you're going.

rhialto

butcher of bakersfield wrote:

Crikey, I thought the £100 would get you the entire country

It will. From the website: ViewRanger software with 1:50,000 scale LandRanger mapping for England, Scotland, Wales, and Isle of Man, £90.

The Garmin equivalent looks to be £200. I have no idea why the pricing is so different.

Briggo wrote:

Why do you need 1:25? For the Garmin and such like 1:50 is perfectly adequate

You don't need 1:25k. I just prefer the additional detail over 1:50k (I know, it's much more expensive). Adequate is not what I am going for.

butcher of bakersfield

dpaulett wrote:

ViewRanger software with 1:50,000 scale LandRanger mapping for England, Scotland, Wales, and Isle of Man, £90.

Briggo wrote:

Why do you need 1:25? For the Garmin and such like 1:50 is perfectly adequate

You don't need 1:25k. I just prefer the additional detail over 1:50k (I know, it's much more expensive). Adequate is not what I am going for.

I'm no map reading expert by anyone's standards, so I probably can't comment... but I went out the other day, after studying a Landranger map for some time (unfortunately it was framed and on the wall, so I couldn't take it with me) and I ended up lost, in the woods, on a maze of fire roads (Yes ROADS) that did not exist on that map. There was seriously, I'd estimate, well over 100 miles of linked up roads in this forest. It was raining. Foggy. And I could've been lost for hours. I didn't even know what direction I was heading in. And whilst the GPS is going to help you a little with that last bit (or even a simple compass!), I can understand the desire for greater detailed maps. I like to roll off the beaten track. Hunting out the hidden gems. And I'm not likely to find them on a map that doesn't even list minor roads.

delcol

if gps will boost your confidence and help you get out more and discover new places... then go for it and try it..

cough cough cough maps dont have to be cough cough expensive there are ways cough cough to get them cheap cough very cheap... as in free,.... wink wink begins with a t and ends with a t.....

Briggo

butcher of bakersfield wrote:

I'm no map reading expert by anyone's standards, so I probably can't comment... but I went out the other day, after studying a Landranger map for some time (unfortunately it was framed and on the wall, so I couldn't take it with me) and I ended up lost, in the woods, on a maze of fire roads (Yes ROADS) that did not exist on that map. There was seriously, I'd estimate, well over 100 miles of linked up roads in this forest. It was raining. Foggy. And I could've been lost for hours. I didn't even know what direction I was heading in. And whilst the GPS is going to help you a little with that last bit (or even a simple compass!), I can understand the desire for greater detailed maps. I like to roll off the beaten track. Hunting out the hidden gems. And I'm not likely to find them on a map that doesn't even list minor roads.

So lets get this straight, you looked at a map hanging on a wall, went out without it then wondered why you got lost.

How old was the map? Do you think you have a photographic memory?

Brilliant.

omegas

mkf wrote:

i don't think i'd like to rely on a nav, might get damaged in a crash or run out of power

I would never just carry a map in case it got blown away in the wind

tiny_pens

As mentioned above the older Garmin etrex series can be quite good. Also its compatible with open cycle map downloads. There are a couple of places whereby you can download the entire UK maps (freely and legally) to install on your satnav. You don't get field boundaries but most bridleways and roads are there.

Worth a look?

butcher of bakersfield

Briggo wrote:

butcher of bakersfield wrote:

I'm no map reading expert by anyone's standards, so I probably can't comment... but I went out the other day, after studying a Landranger map for some time (unfortunately it was framed and on the wall, so I couldn't take it with me) and I ended up lost, in the woods, on a maze of fire roads (Yes ROADS) that did not exist on that map. There was seriously, I'd estimate, well over 100 miles of linked up roads in this forest. It was raining. Foggy. And I could've been lost for hours. I didn't even know what direction I was heading in. And whilst the GPS is going to help you a little with that last bit (or even a simple compass!), I can understand the desire for greater detailed maps. I like to roll off the beaten track. Hunting out the hidden gems. And I'm not likely to find them on a map that doesn't even list minor roads.

So lets get this straight, you looked at a map hanging on a wall, went out without it then wondered why you got lost.

How old was the map? Do you think you have a photographic memory?

Brilliant.

I'm not wondering how I got lost. I'm quite proficient at it. The whole point of this thread is that I need to take a map out with me to prevent getting lost.

rhialto

delcol wrote:

cough cough cough maps dont have to be cough cough expensive there are ways cough cough ...

You should get that cough looked at

Briggo

butcher of bakersfield wrote:

Briggo wrote:

butcher of bakersfield wrote:

I'm no map reading expert by anyone's standards, so I probably can't comment... but I went out the other day, after studying a Landranger map for some time (unfortunately it was framed and on the wall, so I couldn't take it with me) and I ended up lost, in the woods, on a maze of fire roads (Yes ROADS) that did not exist on that map. There was seriously, I'd estimate, well over 100 miles of linked up roads in this forest. It was raining. Foggy. And I could've been lost for hours. I didn't even know what direction I was heading in. And whilst the GPS is going to help you a little with that last bit (or even a simple compass!), I can understand the desire for greater detailed maps. I like to roll off the beaten track. Hunting out the hidden gems. And I'm not likely to find them on a map that doesn't even list minor roads.

So lets get this straight, you looked at a map hanging on a wall, went out without it then wondered why you got lost.

How old was the map? Do you think you have a photographic memory?

Brilliant.

I'm not wondering how I got lost. I'm quite proficient at it. The whole point of this thread is that I need to take a map out with me to prevent getting lost.

The conversation went on to 1:25 vs 1:50, your example above relates to this with you studying a 1:50 map and then trying to use your memory of that map to navigate, however allegedly (without having the map to hand) stated that loads of roads etc weren't on the 1:50 map and so therefore its was the cause, do you even know how old the map was?

Its a ridiculous example of why you should have a detailed map (1:25) at best.

I often take a 1:25 out with me for emergencies, but not once have I ever needed to use it the Garmin with 1:50 has always performed flawlessly. A little common sense and the ability to use your brain and eyes works wonders and never gotten lost to date.

camerauk

Just to let you know the routes that you can download from various sites etc will not give you turn by turn instructions it will show you a route of where you are and path you need to follow

diddyfunk

Camerauk,

thanks for the heads up but I assume that the unit (Garmin 800) will still tell me when I am going to be turning and if i have gone wrong?

Thanks

camerauk

I don't have a 800 I have the Dakota 20 with the 1:50 maps(but think its the same) it shows me an arrow on the map(where I am) with view of the trails with route marked in a colour of your choice
easy to follow and see if you go wrong
I think they do make noise and tell you where to turn on roads but not off road i.e. bridleways etc

delcol

if you cant follow a arrow on a red line on the screen of a 800 you deserve to get lost...

the 800 has on screen mapping look on youtube to reviews.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... .1.4.1l6l0

i must get some venos for that cough....

diddyfunk

Hi

So, can anyone definitely confirm that if I am using a Garmin 800 and have downloaded a .gpx route from the internet onto the unit that I will or will not be able to have turn by turn navigation of that route (with arrows and vibrating when coming up to a turn)?

Looking to purchase one and this is what I would like it to do!

Many thanks

delcol

taken from
http://www.lovingoutdoors.co.uk/garmin- ... puter.html

also see video on their site.


Know Where To Go

Whether your bike is a means of transportation or escape, having maps at your fingertips makes every journey easier and more fun. Edge 800 comes with a built-in basemap that shows major roads and cities, plus it’s compatible with our microSD™ cards packed with either street¹ or topo maps³. Select a destination and Edge 800 provides turn-by-turn navigation prompts on screen.

Edge 800 can also guide you along routes recorded by other cyclists. Explore our Garmin Connect™ site and choose from millions of rides uploaded by other users. Any activities you upload to your Edge 800 are stored as courses. You can follow the course with navigation prompts or, for a little competition, race it and try to beat previously set goals. You can also use Garmin’s free BaseCamp™ software or other applications to create a route, view elevation changes and other data, and then upload to Edge.

Growmac

Hi all, the Garmin 800 will indeed bleep to warn you of a turn and show arrows and warn you if you wander off route. Since the latest firmware update it even works properly.

Something I found a while ago that I am amazed hasn't got more publicity is the Sustrans app. I use it on iOS, but I assume you can get the same for Android. Doesn't look like much at first, just has the national cycle network. But, then you realise that if you set the screen to show an area (say the 10 by 10 mile FOD area), you can then tell it to store the area offline, and specify what detail.

Specify 1:25k, and you'll have that whole area as 1:25k OS mapping, locally on the phone, and completely free. It's fabulous, does the proper map with 'you are here' from the GPS rather than full nav. I can only think that if it got too popular they wouldn't be able to offer it any more, so keep it under your hat.

Growmac

Oh, the Garmin's ride against feature is good, but can be a bit depressing. On a slog in the mud in the lakes, we were about 1 hour 20 into the ride, having been pushing for about 40 mins up a boulder track, when the unit plays a little tune and tells us that the guy who recorded the track has just finished. VERY demoralising, although to be fair we weren't in much of a hurry. Eventually took us about 3 hours in some of the boggiest riding I've done in a while.