Knee Diagnosis - The end ?

kingrollo

Hi

I have been diagnosed with osteo arthititus in lateral patello-femoral joint (somewhere in the knee!) - does this mean cycling is a no go for me ?

LeicesterLad

kingrollo wrote:

Hi

I have been diagnosed with osteo arthititus in lateral patello-femoral joint (somewhere in the knee!) - does this mean cycling is a no go for me ?

Didn't you ask the doctor?

kingrollo

This was an over the phone diag - as I want to see a particular consultant - I won't get to see him for a week or so - just wondering if anyone has any experience or advice.

LeicesterLad

kingrollo wrote:

This was an over the phone diag - as I want to see a particular consultant - I won't get to see him for a week or so - just wondering if anyone has any experience or advice.

An over the phone diagnosis resulted in osteo arthititus in lateral patello-femoral joint :shock:

Ive had a quick google, and the common answer is that Cycling is actually good for osteo arthititus of the knee. My missus is Rheumatoid arthritic, and cycling is good for her too! (not that she bothers)

kingrollo

ok ok ok......
I have had an MRI - but can't get to see the consultant for a while. After some persuasion I was read the report - but lets not dwell on that.......or whether i should see a GP ......Etc ...etc..etc....lets stay on topic ........

Has anyone been diagnosed with the above - and was able to continue cycling .......or is anyone in the know enough to advise.....

Ben6899

I don't have any direct experience, but just to contradict LeicesterLad's comment (not to be argumentative, but to air on the side of caution)... my friend's fella has arthritis in his knee (no idea which knee, part or type of arthritis) and is on Scarborough warning from his Dr to not cycle otherwise face a later life of agony and limping.

Now please bear in mind I don't have a clue about anything medical! But please see a Dr before jumping on the bike.

Godspeed.

fossyant

Keeping active is the best ! Carry on cycling.

keef66

They can always stick in a new knee joint. My orthopod has promised me my knees will be shot by the time I'm 60. Think of it as a shiny metal upgrade. Cycling is a good rehab after knee replacement surgery.

kingrollo

keef66 wrote:

They can always stick in a new knee joint. My orthopod has promised me my knees will be shot by the time I'm 60. Think of it as a shiny metal upgrade. Cycling is a good rehab after knee replacement surgery.

A knee replacement isn't something to take lightly - theres a massive amount of rehab - sometimes a year - you can of course 'get lucky' and have a quick rehab - and a perfect working knee - but a lot of people fall short of this. Knee replacement is a last resort - and something I will strive to avoid. (although I hear mavic do a good carbon fibre knee!)

I will get the answer soon enough - I suspect it will be a 'listen to your knee' - given that I went out yesterday for 7 miles (look out cav !) but knee for the rest of the day felt great. The only problem I just can't do 'out of the saddle' - and live in a hilly area - not a great combo !

benno the red

interesting views so far so here is my experience with this problem

i had to give up football about 8 yrs ago due to knee injuries , basically wear and tear to the cartliadge in both knees, leading to mild arthritis

After 5 arthroscopies to clear out damaged cartliadge since then , eventually i had a procedure called a microfracture in Oct 2010. Its a pretty big op with plenty of physio rehab to follow, any way my consultant basically said get on your bike or in the pool ..

So in May i got into this road bike lark , its cost me a fortune in kit etc but i will say my knees are feeling great, i still get the occasional creak etc but the cycling has basically built up the muscle around the knee which takes the strain off the joint

So my advice is get on your bike.............

keef66

You're right, I was being a little flippant. I too would like to avoid any major surgery if that's possible.

I'm keeping cycling cos my knees and my back feel better when I do. I'm lucky that I live in what can only be described as undulating countryside, and since I bought my bike just after having knee surgery it has a triple chainset so I can merrily spin up virtually anything.

kingrollo

Just found this on web

"As well pedalling - the hidden threat to your knees comes from the turbelence created by alloy rims, this creates a force - which pushes your knees outwards - and thus increases the pressure on the knee joint. Deep Section Carbon rims are therefore mandatory for anyone with knee problems"

I have to tell the wife !

kayakerchris

I am sorry but I think the comments about deep section rims is nonsense! But good luck anyway.

Arthritis is a generic catch all term for wear and tear in a joint. You do not have surgery or treatment for arthritis. You have treatment for pain. Some people have arthritis and pain, some arthritis and no pain.

If you have pain standing up then you need to become very good at pedalling up hills sitting. There are always ways round things. There is level 1 evidence that keeping a damaged joint moving protects the remaining cartilage and prolongs the survival of the joint. However inflicting high transitory loads with probable some rotation as well (standing on the pedal and powering up a hill) will be painful and may lead to cartilage tears or delamination and hasten the wear and tear.

So yes keep cycling but spin up hills. I would certainly invest in a bike fit as optimising leg movement, etc will help as well.

There are two pain components in arthritis. Firstly direct pain from damaged cartilage. Best treated with paracetamol. Secondly the secondary inflammatory type reaction pain following exercise. This is best treated with Ibuprofen or one of the other NSAIDS. Take all painkillers before the pain starts. So if you are going cycling then take 2 paracetamol and an ibuprofen before you set out.

basically pain is like a burglar alarm and warns you that something has happened to your knee. If your house was burgled you wouldnt leave the alarm ringing for the next 10 years. Unfortunately you have damage in your knee, the pain tells you that and ideally we would turn off the alarm. paracetamol and ibuprofen are the closest we get.

Good luck

Chris



consultant surgeon

Scotxr

kingrollo wrote:

Hi

I have been diagnosed with osteo arthititus in lateral patello-femoral joint (somewhere in the knee!) - does this mean cycling is a no go for me ?

Was gonna message my dad who's a specialist but I suppose Kayakerchris has covered it.

Scotxr

I messaged him anyway and his text back says....

"Oh dear, OA doesnt get better. It's going to be worse weight bearing and worse downhill/ downstairs. Cycling will be good, though not sprinting. Pain is always a good guide. When it gets sore stop it."


HTH

anto164

kayakerchris wrote:

I am sorry but I think the comments about deep section rims is nonsense! But good luck anyway.

Ohhhhhh dear...

As for my thoughts? Just ride. If you start to feel pain, call it a day then go out a few days later when the pain has subsided.

kingrollo

thanx guys - see the physio tonight for some excercises. From what I have read the message seems to be that to stop and do nothing wouldn't be a good idea. - Sensible cycling seems the order of the day. - Keep you posted.

Peddle Up!

kingrollo wrote:

Hi

I have been diagnosed with osteo arthititus in lateral patello-femoral joint (somewhere in the knee!) - does this mean cycling is a no go for me ?

That's bad luck mate. Can I ask how old and heavy you are? There's nothing that can be done about age, but obviously losing weight if you're heavy for your height/build will take pressure off the knees.

A couple of my relatives have had knee replacements and although they may not be typical, this solution was far from complete but given that their joints were completely shot, a last resort.

Good luck.

Chippy_Minton

I have a seriously dodgy knee - I have no anteria cruciate ligament, a badly damaged cartilage and heavy arthritic joint as a result of all the trauma of failed reconstructions etc...
I started riding 5 months ago - and have gone through some 'issues' along the way... to cut a long story short, my advice would be to keep as high a cadence as possible when climbing, get a computer with a clear cadence read out and make sure your gearing is set up for spinning up hills, avoid hard sprints and go easy if you use a Turbo trainer. I went hard on mine and ended up in serious pain for a week. Also make sure you have your bike set up / fitted as well as you can especially your shoes / cleats. I also find keeping my knees warm helps.

kingrollo

OP Here,

I am 5-8 and 12.5st - gained 1/2 st since I stopped cycling to work.

Keep your experience \ stories coming. I am finding tales of people coping adversity very encouyraging.

Thanks.

cwm

for me it was an acl reconstruction on right leg and a cartilage op on left leg and back on bike after 6 weeks.
my mate had a lower limb reallignment and was out of it for 6 months also had cartilage and a op where they drilled holes in the knee joint (femur),cant think of the name of op but think it has already been mentioned,he's riding well but suffers after,but hes hard hes from Pyle

oldwelshman

I also have patella femoral pain and was also told it was oesteo athritis, turns out it wasn't. Seems GP's just fob us off with this.
As for MRI, this does not really show up athritis properly and you would need x-ray for this, MRI is more for tissue type problems, and ligaments and tendons, not good for bones.
Anyway my problem turned out to be a bone bruis in femur caused by wear of the articular cartlidge so I need microfracture surgery to try to repar it.
As for rehab for knee replacement this can vary and there are partial knee replacements you can have to replace localised areas of athritis if this is what you have.
Look on internet kots of video adverts showing this.

Scotxr

oldwelshman wrote:

I also have patella femoral pain and was also told it was oesteo athritis, turns out it wasn't. Seems GP's just fob us off with this.
As for MRI, this does not really show up athritis properly and you would need x-ray for this, MRI is more for tissue type problems, and ligaments and tendons, not good for bones.
Anyway my problem turned out to be a bone bruis in femur caused by wear of the articular cartlidge so I need microfracture surgery to try to repar it.
As for rehab for knee replacement this can vary and there are partial knee replacements you can have to replace localised areas of athritis if this is what you have.
Look on internet kots of video adverts showing this.

Rubbish.

MRI is gold standard for almost everything. CT is also a good option.

oldwelshman

Scotxr wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

I also have patella femoral pain and was also told it was oesteo athritis, turns out it wasn't. Seems GP's just fob us off with this.
As for MRI, this does not really show up athritis properly and you would need x-ray for this, MRI is more for tissue type problems, and ligaments and tendons, not good for bones.
Anyway my problem turned out to be a bone bruis in femur caused by wear of the articular cartlidge so I need microfracture surgery to try to repar it.
As for rehab for knee replacement this can vary and there are partial knee replacements you can have to replace localised areas of athritis if this is what you have.
Look on internet kots of video adverts showing this.

Rubbish.

MRI is gold standard for almost everything. CT is also a good option.

The operative word being almost, but not for athritis though as bone does not show up on MRI hence the requirement for x-ray.
MRI imaging is optimum for soft tissue and any part of anatomy made up primarily of hydrogen atoms, such as brain matter, muscle, catrlidge, and cancerous and non cancerous tumours. It is also good these days for angiography due to improved scan techniques.
Not sure wht you said my post was rubbish ?

secretsqizz

'cos his Dad's a doc... or something posher.. and the offspring's years of medical science has paid off with a tweet from his pater.......

Scotxr

oldwelshman wrote:

Scotxr wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

I also have patella femoral pain and was also told it was oesteo athritis, turns out it wasn't. Seems GP's just fob us off with this.
As for MRI, this does not really show up athritis properly and you would need x-ray for this, MRI is more for tissue type problems, and ligaments and tendons, not good for bones.
Anyway my problem turned out to be a bone bruis in femur caused by wear of the articular cartlidge so I need microfracture surgery to try to repar it.
As for rehab for knee replacement this can vary and there are partial knee replacements you can have to replace localised areas of athritis if this is what you have.
Look on internet kots of video adverts showing this.

Rubbish.

MRI is gold standard for almost everything. CT is also a good option.

The operative word being almost, but not for athritis though as bone does not show up on MRI hence the requirement for x-ray.
MRI imaging is optimum for soft tissue and any part of anatomy made up primarily of hydrogen atoms, such as brain matter, muscle, catrlidge, and cancerous and non cancerous tumours. It is also good these days for angiography due to improved scan techniques.
Not sure wht you said my post was rubbish ?

Bone does not show up on MRI????!! Rubbish. For an initial diagnosis MRI is better unless he was going for surgery or they were checking for disease progression. MRI will also show micro fractures that might be hard to pick up. At the end of the day MRI trumps X-ray and his MRI will be sufficient.

Scotxr

oldwelshman wrote:

Scotxr wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

I also have patella femoral pain and was also told it was oesteo athritis, turns out it wasn't. Seems GP's just fob us off with this.
As for MRI, this does not really show up athritis properly and you would need x-ray for this, MRI is more for tissue type problems, and ligaments and tendons, not good for bones.
Anyway my problem turned out to be a bone bruis in femur caused by wear of the articular cartlidge so I need microfracture surgery to try to repar it.
As for rehab for knee replacement this can vary and there are partial knee replacements you can have to replace localised areas of athritis if this is what you have.
Look on internet kots of video adverts showing this.

Rubbish.

MRI is gold standard for almost everything. CT is also a good option.

The operative word being almost, but not for athritis though as bone does not show up on MRI hence the requirement for x-ray.
MRI imaging is optimum for soft tissue and any part of anatomy made up primarily of hydrogen atoms, such as brain matter, muscle, catrlidge, and cancerous and non cancerous tumours. It is also good these days for angiography due to improved scan techniques.
Not sure wht you said my post was rubbish ?

You talk about Hydrogen atoms etc as if you are an expert but an expert would not come out with such a false statement and to put you in your place here's a link to an MRI of a foot. Enjoy.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=mri+bo ... 29,r:1,s:0


Here's a link to the NEJM. This talks about occult Hip fractures. This patient had an X-ray which missed a fracture - because the clinical suspicion was high she was sent for MRI which, guess what??, showed the fracture.

Got to love owning someone who thinks they know it all.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMicm0707701

oldwelshman

If you want to discuss this in private I am happy to do so tehn you wont look so much of a prick.
In fact I know exaclty what I am talking about and if you want a lecture as to how mri images are acquired and recontructed and a lesson in mri physics I am happy to provide it to you. I do not need internet links to mri images I have thousands of themto look at. As you see tto like to browse then try looking at mri theory and you will see it is based on hydrogen protons though you can view others but thats not don often it is calles spectroscopy but I suppose you know that.
What you see in the images is not bone it is bone marrow and often you can see fractures and cartlidge damage to to the presence of fluids.
When rf is applied to a body at the lamor frequence it is the hydrogen protons filpped out of phase and bone does not have enough of these these which is why bone apopears black in mri as there is no signal given off as the protons relax back into line of magnetic filed, but I suppose with your superior knowledge you know this also.
What you see in the images is the bone marrow which has hydrogen protons, the bone appears very thin and black.
Maybe you can explain to me why you think bones are better scanned on mri as compared to x-ray.
One of the uses of mri for bones is for micro fractures and I thought you would have mentioned scaphoid injries.
These types of scans are in the minority and done mostly after other exams, the vast majority of mri images are for tumours, ortho, vascular, diffusion, muscular and some functional mri but I guess you also know this.
Maybe with your expert knowledge you can give me your diagnosis for my knee below and with your knowledge maybe you will identify what scan technique each one is, then I will be impressed :

oldwelshman

By the way, I never claimed to know it all my original post just said MRI is used MOSTLY for tissue and vascular scans and is not used much for bones and I stand by this. In the same way X-ray is better for bones and used MOSTLY for this.

frosty99

chondroblastoma?

Peddle Up!

C*cks off the table chaps, this is about a cyclist's knee problem.