Heart Rate

Pufftmw

Sorry, search is off but...

I'm 47 and I cycle to work most days a week, 6.5 miles there, then same back (25mins av time), pretty flat but a lot of stop/start. Tend to cruise around 20/21mph quite happily but am a bit competitive so hit the strava segments and have a go. I'm not overweight (5'9" 72kg) and upperbody weight train 2x a week.

So I got a new Garmin the other day and I now get HR readout. I see that I'm often at max heart rate when having a go at a segment (173/4 which is about right for my age). I'm pig-headed so I'll keep at it as much as possible until I finish the segment. The rest of the time I'm around 85/90% of max when trundling along.

I compared some of my runs with another cyclist. He does about the same daily distance, maybe a bit more, he's 25 and roughly the same height/weight as I. His fastest runs (faster than mine!) are being done at around 80% max.

I guess I have a couple of questions

1) How do I train to increase efficiency & keep my heart rate lower?

2) What problems with hitting HRmax are there?

I also have a breathing problem in that I forget to breathe properly sometimes, so I might start off hard and hold my breath for a while! It manifests itself when I do karate as well. That may not help with the above obviously! Any training ideas for breathing?

cougie

Unless you've tested for your Max Heart Rate physically - your figures are likely to be wrong.

220-your age is often quoted and often wrong. I cant see the point in working to a HR if the levels aren't calibrated in the first place. Its like buying a precision wristwatch and setting it by the sun.

mustol

You'll need to test your max HR and resting HR - formulas are only a rough guide. I am 41, have been cycling for 1 year and just got my first HRM. On a ride last week, I pushed hard (but not all out for fear of collapsing!) up a couple of fairly severe climbs and my highest was 193. Using a rowing machine in the gym, I reached 198 - even if it's not quite my max, it'll be close enough! With a resting rate of 47 (that's my lowest rate recorded first thing in the morning - checked over a few days), my zone 2 (65%-75%) training zone is 145-160bpm. There's plenty of info on the net about how best to find your RHR and MHR, as well as training zones.

moonshine

Max HR is sport specific too. Running & Rowing Max HR are likely to be higher than cyclung Max HR due to running & rowing using more muscle groups / muscle mass than during cycling.

ozzy1000

as the others have said, I reckon you max is much higher. I'm 34 by the 220-age formula my max should be 186... it isn't, I can ride at 186 and sustain it for a while. earlier in the year i managed to average 182bpm for half an hour and I have recorded 201bpm a few months ago. basically you can't ride at you max hate for any decent period of time, it just hurts too much. the time I got mine upto 201 i nearly fell off my bike and was ruined afterwards.. I'm guessing that my max is about 200 and I've based zones on that. these zones feel adequately difficult and seem to work if i use them as a training guide.

i'm inviting somebody else to correct me here; but it was my understanding that your average HR over a 20minute all out effort is probably about 85-90% of max?? if so then that might be a usefull way of estimating HR zones and maxHR. its kind of the approach i've taken.

ut_och_cykla

Max is max - nothing more than that. Even if you're a 200kg couch potato hitting max wont kill - it will just feel awful and getting there would probably brake other stuff. (common sense says its nothing i would recommend.
For getting better at keeping HR down - train progressivley towards where you want to be and slowly your body will adapt and your heart wont need to beat so fast for the same effort - it will pump bigger strokes and your cells will learn to cope with slightly more lactate and clear excess lactate better.
If you've spent x hundred pounds on a fancy HR monitor - spend a few more pounds and get a proper ramp & lactate test as well as a max HR and some HR zones based on lactate levels & Watts.

mikeradar

ut_och_cykla wrote:

If you've spent x hundred pounds on a fancy HR monitor - spend a few more pounds and get a proper ramp & lactate test as well as a max HR and some HR zones based on lactate levels & Watts.

x hundred pounds? I just bought a Garmin premium one and it cost £45...

CakeLovinBeast

I've just recently obtained a Garmin plus HR strap and I was just coming to the conclusion that non-personalised HR zones are rubbish. I spent most of 25 minutes firmly into level 5 this morning and whilst it was uncomfortable, I know I still had more in the tank.

So, I've seen methods for self calculation using turbos (which I don't have), or on the road (which don't seem reliable). With that in mind, who could I contact to see about calculating some personalised HR zones?

mustol

CakeLovinBeast,

HR zones should be pretty reliable, as long as you have fairly accurate figures for your RHR and MHR. How did you obtain your MHR to work out you were in Zone 5? My zone 5 (89%-94%) is approx 181-189 - no way could I maintain that for 25mins - 5 mins maybe.

By the way, on theme of cost, my HRM cost £15 from Lloyds Pharmacy, including zone alarms. It does the job just fine!

amaferanga

CakeLovinBeast wrote:

I've just recently obtained a Garmin plus HR strap and I was just coming to the conclusion that non-personalised HR zones are rubbish. I spent most of 25 minutes firmly into level 5 this morning and whilst it was uncomfortable, I know I still had more in the tank.

So, I've seen methods for self calculation using turbos (which I don't have), or on the road (which don't seem reliable). With that in mind, who could I contact to see about calculating some personalised HR zones?

Almost as rubbish as someone talking about 'zone 5' without actually saying what HR this refers to....

phy2sll2

Pufftmw wrote:

*Moaning about getting worn out too quickly*

Just slow down, leave the Strava stuff to younger, more athletic players, like myself.

FYI, I'm 28 and my HRMax is 204.

Barbarossa

I use zones based arround LTHR, I think that they mean a lot more. There seem to be lots of ways of finding it, but basicaly, it's your average HR over a sustained, flat out, effort (8 - 30mins depending who you read) link to Friel. It's fairly easy to get and importantly, easy to re-test. This spring, my LTHR dropped by 10 bpm whilst power during the same test increased by 30W.

Pufftmw

phy2sll2 wrote:

Pufftmw wrote:

*Moaning about getting worn out too quickly*

Just slow down, leave the Strava stuff to younger, more athletic players, like myself.

FYI, I'm 28 and my HRMax is 204.

Yeah right! My problem is that at the first whiff of a challenge (SCR, Strava or even the overall time to home/work) and I'm off! Saying that, I've paced myself a bit the last couple of runs and although I'm a couple of mph down when cruising, I've got a bit more in reserve when I "need" it.

BTW, this thread wasn't about my Max Heart rate or zones in particular, it was more to do with how I could train to essentially increase my capacity and keep my heart rate lower whilst being more efficient (ie faster).

ozzy1000_0

to increase efficiency, you have to make yourself feel tired. you're only doing short runs at the moment so your body will get used to just doing that. you have to provide pregressive overload to make progress, so do more work in terms of either power/speed over the same distance, or distance at the same speed/power, or both. if you don't have a lot of time maybe find ways of doing intervals that push you really hard. maybe find a big hill that takes you 6-8mins to ride up (6-8mins of pushing hard), then ride up it 5 times. you could try doing that once or twice a week ontop of your other riding. or join a club and start riding bigger distances with guys that are faster than you. i would really reccommend this as the way to go. i'm no expert in training but i found that after a few weeks of doing 2 or 3 rides a week of between hours, my stamina made huge leapsin the right direction, everything just began to feel easier...

oldwelshman

ozzy1000 wrote:

as the others have said, I reckon you max is much higher. quote]
Why do you think his HR is higher?
My HR for road cycling is only 174. I have never been higher than that in any road race or road event.
HR is a personal thing and you cannot guess what a persons max HR is at all.
I used to coach at squash and did some testing on some national juniors and during the squash mathes one who was 19 hit 210 another hit only 130!! Yes 130. Turns out his father was also very low HR, His resting HR was only 35.
Even now years later and he does not play competatively and weighs about 18stone his HR is still low

johncp

oldwelshman wrote:

ozzy1000 wrote:

as the others have said, I reckon you max is much higher. quote]
Why do you think his HR is higher?
My HR for road cycling is only 174. I have never been higher than that in any road race or road event.
HR is a personal thing and you cannot guess what a persons max HR is at all.
I used to coach at squash and did some testing on some national juniors and during the squash mathes one who was 19 hit 210 another hit only 130!! Yes 130. Turns out his father was also very low HR, His resting HR was only 35.
Even now years later and he does not play competatively and weighs about 18stone his HR is still low

The point he's making is that no-one "trundles along" at 85-90% HRmax - that level is hard work, so strongly suggests OPs HRmax is higher than he thinks it is.

siamon

I think you need to vary it a bit.

When I changed my running training from doing exactly the same course at same speed for 6+ hours every week, to 1 slow 45 minute recovery run, 1 killer mad interval hills session (2 minute walk, 3 minute jog, 3 minute sprint) and one 45 min tempo run (20 secs per mile quicker than race pace and therefore increased HR) my fitness and performance leapt forward and smashed through the ceiling I was apparently stuck at.

As you say you are a bit competitive I think you will use improvements in fitness and efficiency to ride faster rather than at a lower HR.

I don't know when you started cycling, but if it is fairly recently you might want to do a bit of gentle conditioning before you get stuck in as an injury avoidance measure.

Get a few interval sessions in and you will be tearing chunks out your whipper snapper mate!

keef66

What's a Strava when it's at home???

Pufftmw

www.strava.com

Upload Garmin rides there and compare against others. Also available for iPhone and Android phones

keef66

Ahah! A whole virtual world beyond my reach since I lack the requisite garmin / smart phone.

I don't think I'd be wanting to advertise publicly the extreme slowness of my rides anyway!

ozzy1000_0

Johncp wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

ozzy1000 wrote:

as the others have said, I reckon you max is much higher. quote]
Why do you think his HR is higher?
My HR for road cycling is only 174. I have never been higher than that in any road race or road event.
HR is a personal thing and you cannot guess what a persons max HR is at all.
I used to coach at squash and did some testing on some national juniors and during the squash mathes one who was 19 hit 210 another hit only 130!! Yes 130. Turns out his father was also very low HR, His resting HR was only 35.
Even now years later and he does not play competatively and weighs about 18stone his HR is still low

The point he's making is that no-one "trundles along" at 85-90% HRmax - that level is hard work, so strongly suggests OPs HRmax is higher than he thinks it is.

yeah this is exactly what i meant.

ozzy1000_0

keef66 wrote:

Ahah! A whole virtual world beyond my reach since I lack the requisite garmin / smart phone.

I don't think I'd be wanting to advertise publicly the extreme slowness of my rides anyway!

LOL! i joined this new fangled strava thing last night... i'm "king of the hill" for a bunch of climbs near me.... which i got excited by... until i realsised that i was the only person that had ridden up them...