level of control with flat bars vs drop bars

bails87

Interesting......

I swapped the Apex levers for Shimano 105 on my CX last night, and now the cross levers are no firmer than the main ones. Same brakes and cables, but the firmer 105 levers make the cross top ones seem less good.

shouldbeinbed

Mr Plum wrote:

bails87 wrote:

I've never had a problem, I went from a MTB with 710mm low rise bars to a road bike with 40cm bars.

I'd go for a drop barred bike. Have you considered a CX? You'll get the cross top levers too, so you can brake with your hands on the top/flat part of the drop bars, same position as a normal flat bar.

You mean the 'suicide levers'? Don't go there... that has to be the worst argument to buy a CX bike ever.

You've clearly never used the new style interruptor frog leg/bar top levers. They actually pull the brake cable exactly as do the drop levers. My eldest has my CX now but I braked with total confidence in all weathers on them and would never have passed on something I considered unsafe to my firstborn.

This is yet another of the things that cyclists with no direct experience will happily pass an expert opinion on.

As to the OP, I'm a recent returnee to drops after 15 years of neck issues. Give yourself a week/100 miles or so and you'll not notice the difference

djcook1

So I went to the LBS yesterday, and after riding both the Synapse and the CAAD 8, I plumped for the CAAD - picture attached...

I decided that I was likely to go for the drops anyway, so not to bother test riding any flat bar road bikes. And the benefits of a proper fitting in an LBS were enough to persuade me against buying online.

I was surprised at how, even during the short test rides, I adapted quite well to the drop bars. So after a week or two I'm sure I won't even notice the difference, as has been suggested.

Anyway, I love my new bike! I knew it would feel faster/more responsive than my MTB, but wow! Seriously, the difference blew me away! I can't wait to get out on the bike again, and start commuting on it!

Thanks again everyone for all the advice!

nwallace

I ended up puting bar tape on the riser sections of my MTB for climbing on road/smooth tracks.

On an MTB you will get a lot more control at very low speed but that's as much to do with the width of the tyres as the bar type.

To use your points and assuming the same tyre width and bike geometry:

>1. Slow speed steering, e.g. through stationary traffic or those chicane-type barriers you get at the end of bike paths

Drop bars are narrower, therefore less chance of battering them off the obstacle, otherwise it will make no real difference if you are on the tops. By the time you are getting more control from the wider bars you're below the speed on 700c or narrow 26" tyres that you're gonig to have your foot down.

>2. Quick direction changes to avoid pedestrians (I ride on a lot of shared paths)

Irrelevant, unless they have blocked the road completely (in which case a polite excuse me please is required rather than sharp steering) you're gonig to be doing this at speed, so you won't be using the bars to turn the bike.

>3. Hopping up/down kerbs at low speed

Why are you hopping up and down kerbs?
The overall riding position on a road bike doesn't make this all that easy, but for a small kerb (like at a road/path junction) I to tend to try and go as light as possible, that's done with shifting weight about with your arse off the saddle, I tried it with lifting the front on my 26" tourer and it was ok but had to slow down a lot for it.
If you want to do proper big kerb hopping then you're wanting an mtb with big fat soft tyres.

>4. Quick emergency-type braking (shared paths again!).
That's a question of your brake choice, if you want really quick braking go for a disc equiped road bike. The only advantage you get here from a flat barred bike is due to there only being 1 hand position.
Part of riding a bike is anticipating the hazards so flat bars with bulls or drop bars, or even butterfly bars, learning when to be covering the brakes is essential. (Something you can do for 2 out of 3 hand positions on drops and 1 out of 2 on flat bars with extensions)

desweller

I suspect the change in trail on the fork probably has more to do with any perceived handling differences than the type of handlebar. You do get more toe overlap with a road bike than a MTB, partly due to the reduced trail and partly because the wheels are bigger (assuming you're not riding a 29er). This can limit your low speed manoeuvrability.

Mr Plum

shouldbeinbed wrote:

Mr Plum wrote:

bails87 wrote:

I've never had a problem, I went from a MTB with 710mm low rise bars to a road bike with 40cm bars.

I'd go for a drop barred bike. Have you considered a CX? You'll get the cross top levers too, so you can brake with your hands on the top/flat part of the drop bars, same position as a normal flat bar.

You mean the 'suicide levers'? Don't go there... that has to be the worst argument to buy a CX bike ever.

You've clearly never used the new style interruptor frog leg/bar top levers. They actually pull the brake cable exactly as do the drop levers. My eldest has my CX now but I braked with total confidence in all weathers on them and would never have passed on something I considered unsafe to my firstborn.

This is yet another of the things that cyclists with no direct experience will happily pass an expert opinion on.

As to the OP, I'm a recent returnee to drops after 15 years of neck issues. Give yourself a week/100 miles or so and you'll not notice the difference

Read the whole thread before posting :roll:

Stevo_666

djcook1 wrote:

Anyway, I love my new bike! I knew it would feel faster/more responsive than my MTB, but wow! Seriously, the difference blew me away! I can't wait to get out on the bike again, and start commuting on it!

Thanks again everyone for all the advice!

Good choice of bike for the commute. Were you really surprised that there would be a big difference between using a MTB and a road bike on the road though?

djcook1

Stevo 666 wrote:

Were you really surprised that there would be a big difference between using a MTB and a road bike on the road though?

Ok, so maybe "blew me away" was a bit OTT . Essentially though, yes. As I said, I did expect it to be faster and more responsive, but I was surprised at just how big the improvement was. My MTB with slicks is actually pretty fast, I often keep up with or go faster than other people on road bikes, and never having ridden a proper road bike, I had nothing to compare it to. A pleasant surprise

djcook1

nwallace wrote:

>2. Quick direction changes to avoid pedestrians (I ride on a lot of shared paths)

Irrelevant, unless they have blocked the road completely (in which case a polite excuse me please is required rather than sharp steering) you're gonig to be doing this at speed, so you won't be using the bars to turn the bike.

Not for me! Part of my commute involves riding across the Pyrmont Bridge in Sydney. Don't know if you've ever seen it, but it's a big wide bridge shared by pedestrians and cyclists. The pedestrians are mainly tourists who meander and often change direction suddenly, more interested in the views than avoiding oncoming bikes. You have to ride slowly (it's sensible, but also enforced), and often have to brake or change direction suddenly due the the aforementioned tourists!

nwallace wrote:

>3. Hopping up/down kerbs at low speed

Why are you hopping up and down kerbs?

Various reasons really... one example is coming home to my apartment block - there's no dropped kerb out front, and I prefer to hop off the road quickly to get out of the way of any cars (it's on a bend), rather than dismount in the road. Anyway, having done it a couple of times on my new drop bar bike, it's not an issue (like I said, the kerb hopping is always at low speed).

Thanks for the comments!

bails87

Road bikes really aren't that fragile. I go up and down a couple of kerbs on my commute, one to cut through an area that's shut to cars and another to get up onto the pavement where I park my bike. It's fine. If you slow down and lift/unweight each wheel to get it up, rather than just ploughing into the kerb at 20mph it'll be fine. Same goes for dropping down off kerbs, a bit of care and you won't have a problem.

Stevo_666

djcook1 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Were you really surprised that there would be a big difference between using a MTB and a road bike on the road though?

Ok, so maybe "blew me away" was a bit OTT . Essentially though, yes. As I said, I did expect it to be faster and more responsive, but I was surprised at just how big the improvement was. My MTB with slicks is actually pretty fast, I often keep up with or go faster than other people on road bikes, and never having ridden a proper road bike, I had nothing to compare it to. A pleasant surprise

Fair enough if you've never had a road bike to compare. I've tried my MTB's on the road briefly: that's why I got a commuter hack and save my MTB's for the fun days out rather than wearing them out on tarmac

graeme_s-2

bails87 wrote:

Road bikes really aren't that fragile. I go up and down a couple of kerbs on my commute, one to cut through an area that's shut to cars and another to get up onto the pavement where I park my bike. It's fine. If you slow down and lift/unweight each wheel to get it up, rather than just ploughing into the kerb at 20mph it'll be fine. Same goes for dropping down off kerbs, a bit of care and you won't have a problem.

I'm a somewhat large gentleman (6ft and a stone or two overweight), and I've been quite happily battering up and down kerbs at speed on 700C road wheels with 23C tyres for years now with no issues. In the mornings at the moment I join a dual carriage way from a cycle path, and tend to drop off the kerb at speed to merge into the traffic. They really are tougher than you think.

bails87

You smash straight into (undropped) kerbs?!

you're a braver man than me!

I've dropped off them, but a little bunny hop is a sensible precaution to avoid a square edged hit at speed.

For dropped kerbs, yeah, I just ride straight up them.

graeme_s-2

bails87 wrote:

You smash straight into (undropped) kerbs?!

you're a braver man than me!

I've dropped off them, but a little bunny hop is a sensible precaution to avoid a square edged hit at speed.

For dropped kerbs, yeah, I just ride straight up them.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I do unweight the saddle and lift the front wheel, but I often do it fairly quickly, and I certainly drop off them without much concern.

I meant to convey that I would be relatively unconcerned about riding up and down kerbs on a road bike, not that I ride straight into them without making allowances for them

bails87

I thought it sounded a bit....cavalier.

I suppose it doesn't matter if you're doing 2mph or 20mph, you're still dropping the same height, so the forces through the wheels are the same.

notsoblue

I'd echo the comments about about getting used to it... Personally I find narrow bars more useful when you're riding amongst traffic. When I first moved from a hybrid to a road bike my neck and back took a little while to get used to it, no more than a week or so. Wasn't a hardship.

nwallace

djcook1 wrote:

Not for me! Part of my commute involves riding across the Pyrmont Bridge in Sydney. Don't know if you've ever seen it, but it's a big wide bridge shared by pedestrians and cyclists. The pedestrians are mainly tourists who meander and often change direction suddenly, more interested in the views than avoiding oncoming bikes. You have to ride slowly (it's sensible, but also enforced), and often have to brake or change direction suddenly due the the aforementioned tourists!

No I've never seen it so don't know how busy it would be. Is there no alternative route to one that has you trundling at walking speed?
The follow up after a few "Excuse me please"s is a full on Fife Shift it. (There's no point posting the words to it as other than the out and way parts it will all be blocked by the forum censor)

djcook1

nwallace wrote:

djcook1 wrote:

Not for me! Part of my commute involves riding across the Pyrmont Bridge in Sydney. Don't know if you've ever seen it, but it's a big wide bridge shared by pedestrians and cyclists. The pedestrians are mainly tourists who meander and often change direction suddenly, more interested in the views than avoiding oncoming bikes. You have to ride slowly (it's sensible, but also enforced), and often have to brake or change direction suddenly due the the aforementioned tourists!

No I've never seen it so don't know how busy it would be. Is there no alternative route to one that has you trundling at walking speed?
The follow up after a few "Excuse me please"s is a full on Fife Shift it. (There's no point posting the words to it as other than the out and way parts it will all be blocked by the forum censor)

Slightly late reply but...

There is an alternative route, but that's equally as frustrating for different reasons, mainly nightmare traffic lights.

Loving the idea of the "full on Fife Shift it". Pretty sure I catch your drift, and I can assure you it has been used once or twice here! Cheers!

Headhuunter

With regard to steering, I think on a road bike with your weight distributed more evenly across front and back ends, rather than the more upright, weight over the back end hybrid position, you use your whole body to steer rather than just the bars themselves. I find that I move through traffic etc steering with my hips and upper body as well as my hands on the bars. This feels very natural to me, whereas trying to steer through traffic from an upright hybrid style position is quite twitchy as your weight is over the back of the bike...

As others have said, drop bars are also narrower, so it tends to be easier to squeeze through smaller gaps. As for hopping up and down kerbs, I don't do it, not good for the wheels!

As for brakes, road bike brakes tend to be weaker than MTB or hybrid disc brakes but you get used to them and learn what sort of stopping distances you need

bails87

And in most situations the limit of tyre grip is reached before the limit of braking power, so put discs on and you won't necessarily slow down any quicker.

roger_merriman

bails87 wrote:

And in most situations the limit of tyre grip is reached before the limit of braking power, so put discs on and you won't necessarily slow down any quicker.

All brake systems that are in use today and in the past should have the power to lock the wheel etc, what disks do is make the braking more consistant.

djcook1

roger merriman wrote:

bails87 wrote:

And in most situations the limit of tyre grip is reached before the limit of braking power, so put discs on and you won't necessarily slow down any quicker.

All brake systems that are in use today and in the past should have the power to lock the wheel etc, what disks do is make the braking more consistant.

This is definitely consistent with my experience so far, having switched from an MTB with discs and 1.5" slick tyres, to a road bike with calipers and 700x23 tyres. Been on the road bike a few weeks now, and I've managed to unintentionally lock the wheels up a couple of times when braking hard, which I can't remember doing with the discs. Not sure if my tyres (Schwalbe Luganos) are contributing to this, but certainly no worries about the power of the brakes themselves.

61Sigs

Bit late in the day to add to this, but...

Thought long and hard about the move from MTB to a bike with skinny tyres and drops. First few days were bloody horrible, didn't feel comfortable or in control at all. Didn't take long to get used to them and now I absolutely love the drops. As for the interupters, I use mine a fair bit and they're good. I have disks, but would imagine that you'd get the same effect with decent V's.

The interesting things for me after riding off-road bikes for years, and these are retrospectivly really obvious, are: Just how much faster you are, how much easier it is if you just want to pootle along and road bikes aren't made of spun sugar. Despite the fact that I watch the TDF every year and see what a bunch of animals they are and see serial commuters hurtling through towns at warp 6, I, like many other MTB riders, seem to be under the impression that all road bikes will end up in a crumpled twisted heap if you so much as run over a fag packet and you're bound to break the forks on speed bumps, surely!

Couldn't be further from the truth, they're really robust and great to ride. I also love ll the txts I get from mates asking me 'have you broken it yet". Same sort of thing I'd have asked 6 months 4 months ago.

Oh, and being 6' and fairly broad shouldered, for the first time ever I don't loathe and detest riding in really windy days.

djcook1

Mate, I could not have put it better myself! Agree 100% with everything you have said. Well ok not 100%, I didn't loath it at first and I don't have interruptors, but apart from that, you are absolutely spot on!

bails87

I've got the same CX as you 61sigs and I agree. It makes any road riding on my MTB absolutely horrible by comparison (I've also got a Ribble carbon road bike, which is even lighter, and doesn't help the comparisons!).

61Sigs

Out of interest Bails87, as you have a good road bike what drove you to getting a CX, winter commute or do you race?

bails87

No, winter commute.

The only riding I do on the roads is commuting, my 'fun' riding is MTBing.
I've got a 30 mile round trip, (normally extended to 33+ miles as I go home the long way). I've currently still got 25mm Conti gatorskins on the CX, but I've got Marathon Winters for if/when it gets consistently icy.

I'll probably sell the Ribble as I'm happy with the CX and as said above I don't use the road bikes for anything other than commuting. Switching from the carbon Ribble Sportive to the Boardman CX has put my average speed down from ~17mph to ~16.5mph. Which has added about 5 minutes onto my total commuting time each day, that's nothing really.

61Sigs

Thats not much of a change to your average at all is it. Since I've had the cx I do go out on the roads a lot more than I used to at weekends, but like you most of my recreational riding is off road.

Depending on what type of winter we have, I suspect that my hardtail will go as I really don't have room for it*

*Unless I find a very cheap 19" Hardrock/Rockhopper frame and forks** then it'll turn into a project.

** Forks are optional

bails87

Just get some spiked tyres and the CX will do for winter.

I actually find I enjoy my MTBing more now that I've got a road oriented bike. I used to go out during the week on the MTB, on my local boring stuff, just to get some miles in and it became a bit of a chore. Whereas now I do all my miles during the week on the commute, and I'm able to save the MTB for trail centres and 'proper' riding at weekends.

61Sigs

Similar experience. I commuted 10 miles each way all of last year on a hardtail and really started to fall out of love with cycling. So it was really a case of get a more suitable steed or start driving to work again.

Although I have a much shorter commute at the moment, the magic has returned.