level of control with flat bars vs drop bars

djcook1

Hi folks,

I've read lots of threads that touch on this in some way or other, but I have also read lots of contradictory view points! :? I suspect this will generate a similar mix of responses because personal preference is a major factor, but I'm very interested to hear your opinions all the same...

I'm planning on buying a new bike for my urban commute instead of my heavy front suspension MTB with slicks. My ride is about 7 miles each way, all urban. I do occasional sportives, and I'd like to get into longer weekend rides. I think I've narrowed it down to a couple of Cannondales (Synapse or CAAD8) or the Boardman Hybrid Pro. There are several pros and cons to each type of bike, however my final choice of bike mainly rests on one question that I keep going over and over in my head...

Because I have only ever ridden an MTB, I have this view that the level of control you get with a flat bar, specifically in an urban commute, is much better than you get with drop bars. But is that really true if you are experienced with drop bars? I'm thinking particularly about:
1. Slow speed steering, e.g. through stationary traffic or those chicane-type barriers you get at the end of bike paths
2. Quick direction changes to avoid pedestrians (I ride on a lot of shared paths)
3. Hopping up/down kerbs at low speed
4. Quick emergency-type braking (shared paths again!).

Very interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks!

bails87

I've never had a problem, I went from a MTB with 710mm low rise bars to a road bike with 40cm bars.

I'd go for a drop barred bike. Have you considered a CX? You'll get the cross top levers too, so you can brake with your hands on the top/flat part of the drop bars, same position as a normal flat bar.

Mr Plum

bails87 wrote:

I've never had a problem, I went from a MTB with 710mm low rise bars to a road bike with 40cm bars.

I'd go for a drop barred bike. Have you considered a CX? You'll get the cross top levers too, so you can brake with your hands on the top/flat part of the drop bars, same position as a normal flat bar.

You mean the 'suicide levers'? Don't go there... that has to be the worst argument to buy a CX bike ever.

With regards to control, it's whatever you're used to. The first time you ride a road bike will feel unnatural and awkward if you're used to a more upright and wider MTB riding position - you won't feel completely settled and in control. I went from MTB to road riding and it took about a week to feel totally comfortable, but I've not looked back - I've not ridden a MTB for over 9 months... totally caught the road riding bug.

Also, road bikes are great for going through stationary traffic because of the narrow bar width.

asprilla

I much prefer drops. It's a much more ergonomically natural hand position to be on the drops, you can get though smaller gaps. Direction changes are easier because you actually move your arms less.

apreading

I think the main arguement for flats is that you sit more upright and have a better view of the trafic.

For me, drops are just too low down for me to feel comfortable, but this is partly because of my big gut which would get in the way... I just feel more comfortable sat higher and using the flats, its more relaxed and feels more natural. I have broad shoulders and prefer the wider bars too.

I am not convinced it allows you to turn any more, or less quickly though.

I would be wary of doing too much hopping up/down kerbs though - on a road bike with skinny wheels/tyres and no suspension it could be painful.

pdw

Never had a problem with steering control, but as others have said, it does take getting used to.

I do think that the default position of riding on the hoods is not ideal for braking which is why I use a bull horn bar on my commuter. I understand that Shimano have moved the pivot point on newer levers to make braking from the drops better, but I've not tried them.

bails87

1. The hoods will be in the same position as flat bars, so there's no height difference between a flat bar and the top of a drop bar.

2. Cross top levers aren't suicide levers, they're interrupter levers. Sheldon Brown says: In the early 21st century, a greatly improved system of "interrupter brake levers " appeared, with all of the advantages and none of the drawbacks of the older extension levers.
The interrupter levers on my Boardman are more powerful than the standard brake/gear levers.

Catfish

I changed from a flat bar hybred to drops early this year, i got used to it in no time, with reguards to drops being to low it depends what type of bike you get, i ride a spech tri cross and it is fine, I have been leant a spech Tarmac while my Tri cross is in for repair and it is awfull to commute on. I didn't see what all the fuss was about with drop bars but now i have my Tri cross i hate commuting on my mtb, also it is good for the odd sportive or audax.

gosport_commuter

I moved from flatbarred MTB about 6 weeks ago to a dawes edge cross bike with dropped bars. It did take a week or so to get used to hand positions with regards to braking etc, but once that week was out the way I was extremely happy I had moved to a road bike. My commute is now easier and having the selection of hand positions REALLY does help.

I also get seriously less shoulder ache - presumably from the more natural bar/hand width.

Aslo - I love the cross brake levers on the top bar - don't use them that often, but very re-assuring when I use the flat of the bar to gain a little more height in traffic.

piquet

Mr Plum wrote:

bails87 wrote:

You mean the 'suicide levers'? Don't go there... that has to be the worst argument to buy a CX bike ever.

.

the interrupter levers are fine - they were good with the minivees on the plod Tricross and are even better on the new Tricross disc.

I would not use then doing 30 mph downhill - but then I'm not going to be holding the bars in the middle, but they are excellent when manoeuvring in town traffic allowing better visibility from a higher upright position

handful

I had a similar dilemma and tried a couple of road bikes with drop bars and really disliked the 'drop' position, gave me real neck pain. I also realised that I would probably have got used to them if I'd persevered. I ended up going with a Moda Chord which is in effect a flat bar road bike so if I decide that I've made the wrong decision in time I can swap bars and shifters and still end up with a pretty decent spec and lightish road bike.

I know I am in the minority here but my advice is to try a few bikes including the ones you mention and make your own choice. I'm only 4 weeks into my new bike and find the bar ends it comes with offer sufficient hand positions for the rides I've been on so far, admittedly only up to 30 miles at a time so far. I also feel much more in control, particularly in heavy traffic and I have no regrets so far.

Drop bars are undoubtedly better but only if they suit you.

handful

Stanley222 wrote:

handful wrote:

I ended up going with a Moda Chord which is in effect a flat bar road bike so if I decide that I've made the wrong decision in time I can swap bars and shifters and still end up with a pretty decent spec and lightish road bike.

You can change them but it's expensive - depending on the spec you want it can be very expensive!
Drops offer many hand positions (including upright) rather than the 1 that flat bars offer (or 2 with bar ends).
Pro riders ride for 1000's kms with drop bars without pain because of this.
I tried a road bike for a few hours and didn't like it because of neck ache but that's because I wasn't used to it - once I changed my flat bar bike for a roadie that had been properly measured and set up for me then I have had no pain (even on 100 mile rides) and would never go back to flat bars.

I know you are probably right but it takes courage to spend a grand on a bike that will probably hurt for a while if not longer.

I can get my hands into 3 or 4 positions on my flats with bar ends and I think I'm unlikely to be doing 100 mile rides so the flats work for me although I appreciate they wouldn't for everyone. All I was saying to the OP is not to discount flats because that's what the majority tell him, they may be just what he needs.

djcook1

Thanks for the replies everyone!

I definitely plan to try out a few bikes, in fact I am planning a trip to my LBS that has the Cannondales this weekend. They'll only let me go for a few minutes ride on each, and I was worried that this wouldn't be long enough to allay my fears, but it should be enough to get a basic idea. And it re-assures me to know that some of you have made the switch from flats to drops and not regretted it .

Trying out the Boardman hybrid will be trickier... I live in Australia! I am visiting the UK at Christmas though (ex-pat Brit), so if I'm really disciplined and hold off on my purchase I could test ride one at a Halfords, then if I were to like it, order it online from Wiggle. I also like the look of the Boardman CX bikes (thanks for the CX tip balls87) so I could try one of those too. I am conscious of the benefit of getting a proper fitting at a good LBS though, which does count against the whole idea or ordering online.

Choices choices!

Mr Plum

Piquet wrote:

Mr Plum wrote:

bails87 wrote:

You mean the 'suicide levers'? Don't go there... that has to be the worst argument to buy a CX bike ever.

.

the interrupter levers are fine - they were good with the minivees on the plod Tricross and are even better on the new Tricross disc.

I would not use then doing 30 mph downhill - but then I'm not going to be holding the bars in the middle, but they are excellent when manoeuvring in town traffic allowing better visibility from a higher upright position

Strongly disagree, but each to their own...

hstiles

apreading wrote:

I think the main arguement for flats is that you sit more upright and have a better view of the trafic.

For me, drops are just too low down for me to feel comfortable, but this is partly because of my big gut which would get in the way... I just feel more comfortable sat higher and using the flats, its more relaxed and feels more natural. I have broad shoulders and prefer the wider bars too.

I am not convinced it allows you to turn any more, or less quickly though.

I would be wary of doing too much hopping up/down kerbs though - on a road bike with skinny wheels/tyres and no suspension it could be painful.

There are numerous ways in which this can be addressed.

Frame - Some of the more sportive orientated bikes, such as the Roubaix/Secteur, Verentis and others have a much taller steerer tube. In fact, I've been shocked by how upright the position is on these, but it's doown to choice.

Stem - You can flip the stem round to significantly change the height of the bars.

Spacers - Most bikes come with a long enough steerer tube for 4 or 5 spacers. So, you can raise the bars to a height that suits.

bails87

Mr Plum wrote:

Piquet wrote:

Mr Plum wrote:

You mean the 'suicide levers'? Don't go there... that has to be the worst argument to buy a CX bike ever.

the interrupter levers are fine - they were good with the minivees on the plod Tricross and are even better on the new Tricross disc.

I would not use then doing 30 mph downhill - but then I'm not going to be holding the bars in the middle, but they are excellent when manoeuvring in town traffic allowing better visibility from a higher upright position

Strongly disagree, but each to their own...

Seriously, suicide levers aren't interrupter levers, the two are completely different.

Have you used interrupter levers, rather than suicide/extension levers?

If so, what was the problem with them? As I said, the ones on my CX are more powerful (and with plenty of modulation) than the main levers.

mountaincookie

I'm currently using a flat bar hybrid, but am changing to a drop handle bar roady

Why? More hand positions, better position for cutting through the air, those brake/shifter combos (integrated brake and gear levers) are so cool.....(plus other non handle bar related issues)

I personally would advise borrow a freinds/ try out each type at evans (although having a couple days of each would be better). It will depend on what style of commuting you want to do. IMO if you want to commute in a more aggresive manner - up and down curbs, off small steps or just REALLY bad road surface you might find flat bar preferable....or if you going to be doing more normal stuff then tbh drop handle bars are proabably the way to go (especially if your going to do more than commuting). Wider handle bars are less responsive therefore you have more control.

At the end of the day you need to know WHAT riding you will be doing - I bought a beefy hybrid (kona dew plus) then discovered club riding....and now need to get a road bike and sell the h as the kona is just not desighned for that kind of mileage...it nearly killed me :shock:

make sure you let us know what you decide on!

graeme_s-2

When I first changed from a flat barred hybrid to a road bike I found the steering was considerably sharper (to the point of being too twitchy until I got used to it). I honestly think narrow drops provide more accurate steering than flat bars on the road.

I don't find riding a road bike causes any visibility problems while commuting in traffic, but maybe it depends how tall you are. I'm 6', so don't find I have any trouble seeing over traffic from the hoods of my road bike.

Mr Plum

bails87 wrote:

Mr Plum wrote:

Piquet wrote:

Mr Plum wrote:

You mean the 'suicide levers'? Don't go there... that has to be the worst argument to buy a CX bike ever.

the interrupter levers are fine - they were good with the minivees on the plod Tricross and are even better on the new Tricross disc.

I would not use then doing 30 mph downhill - but then I'm not going to be holding the bars in the middle, but they are excellent when manoeuvring in town traffic allowing better visibility from a higher upright position

Strongly disagree, but each to their own...

Seriously, suicide levers aren't interrupter levers, the two are completely different.

Have you used interrupter levers, rather than suicide/extension levers?

If so, what was the problem with them? As I said, the ones on my CX are more powerful (and with plenty of modulation) than the main levers.

Yeah I had them on my Tricross. They even came shipped with warning stickers on saying that by law they don't pass safety tests. I kept them on for a few months and found them to be handy when waiting at red lights with a hand on the front interrupter (suicide :P ) lever, but actually dangerous if I needed to depend on them in a semi-emergency. I took them off, more bar space and I'll never 'accidentally' go to them if I need to pull off an emergency stop...

Maybe things are different on different bikes, but on the Tricross they were definitely suicide levers in every sense of the phrase.

bails87

Dangerous as in no power?

I'm not doubting you, I' m just curious as to what was actually wrong with them.

asprilla

Graeme_S wrote:

I don't find riding a road bike causes any visibility problems while commuting in traffic, but maybe it depends how tall you are. I'm 6', so don't find I have any trouble seeing over traffic from the hoods of my road bike.

Yeah, I've never understood this argument either. I'm 5'9" and have never had a problem seeing over traffic on my road bike.

Mr Plum

bails87 wrote:

Dangerous as in no power?

I'm not doubting you, I' m just curious as to what was actually wrong with them.

Yes, much less power.

mountaincookie

I'm 5.5. I have trouble reaching the biscuit tin let alone anything else

bails87

Mr Plum wrote:

bails87 wrote:

Dangerous as in no power?

I'm not doubting you, I' m just curious as to what was actually wrong with them.

Yes, much less power.

Oh right. Maybe the fact mine are on disc brakes makes a difference. Who knows, but it's obviously not a universal thing. I don't use mine that much, but there's no problem with them.

t4tomo

I had extension levers on my first road bike I bought in the 80's and they were crap - prtty much stopped against the bars before they started to slow the bike down.

I belive designs have improved since then.

As long as you haven't got stumpy fingers you can operate your brakes from the hoods anyway, although prob not a full on emergency stop.

bails87

t4tomo wrote:

I had extension levers on my first road bike I bought in the 80's and they were crap - prtty much stopped against the bars before they started to slow the bike down.

I belive designs have improved since then.

Yes, in that they're not extension levers anymore!

In fact I know one of the MTBers is using interrupter levers as his only brake levers on a flat barred hybrid.

Mr Plum

bails87 wrote:

Mr Plum wrote:

bails87 wrote:

Dangerous as in no power?

I'm not doubting you, I' m just curious as to what was actually wrong with them.

Yes, much less power.

Oh right. Maybe the fact mine are on disc brakes makes a difference. Who knows, but it's obviously not a universal thing. I don't use mine that much, but there's no problem with them.

The discs will more than likely make the difference, but you will have less power when using them even if you don't fully notice it - there's a reason they're shipped with warning stickers on some bikes (try the interrupter levers on a Tricross...). My experience of them is such that I would not feel comfortable recommending that anyone buys a bike solely based on it having interrupter levers fitted, to the point that I'd recommend the direct opposite or that the interrupter levers are removed.

bails87

The discs will more than likely make the difference, but you will have less power when using them even if you don't fully notice it - there's a reason they're shipped with warning stickers on some bikes (try the interrupter levers on a Tricross...). My experience of them is such that I would not feel comfortable recommending that anyone buys a bike solely based on it having interrupter levers fitted, to the point that I'd recommend the direct opposite or that the interrupter levers are removed.

See, now mine are definitely firmer and more powerful than the main levers. I could just as easily be saying to you that interrupter levers give more power, even if you don't fully notice it


Again, from Sheldon Brown: "Initially marketed primarily for cyclocross, these are also an excellent choice for the touring or long distance cyclist, permitting you to brake from the top part of the handlebar.

Unlike the 1970s extension levers, these don't interfere with the main brake levers. They install in the middle of the cable run.

These can also be used as primary levers without the normal drop bar levers."
They wouldn't be selling them as primary levers if they didn't work! I'd suggest the ones on the Tricross are just crap, as opposed to it being a flaw with all cross top levers.

graeme_s-2

bails87 wrote:

They wouldn't be selling them as primary levers if they didn't work! I'd suggest the ones on the Tricross are just crap, as opposed to it being a flaw with all cross top levers.

Also worth noting that pro teams use them at some of the cobbled classics (with calliper brakes, not discs). I can't see them attaching something to a professional's bike that adds weight, doesn't work, and could potentially cause a crash.

rolf_f

bails87 wrote:

Yes, in that they're not extension levers anymore!

Quite! It's like saying that twist shifters are the same as standard shifters because they are both on the ends of the bars

Suicide levers give you a very long length of bendy alloy to operate the main brake levers badly. Interrupters give you a completely different lever without any excess length.

As for flat bars - great on MTBs where you need precise, slow speed positioning on rough trails but on the road that extra control really isn't needed. Besides, you probably see about 99 reports on here of people regretting buying a flat bar having realised how much better drops are on the road for every one report stating the opposite.

You might fit into that one percent but probably not!

Mr Plum

bails87 wrote:

The discs will more than likely make the difference, but you will have less power when using them even if you don't fully notice it - there's a reason they're shipped with warning stickers on some bikes (try the interrupter levers on a Tricross...). My experience of them is such that I would not feel comfortable recommending that anyone buys a bike solely based on it having interrupter levers fitted, to the point that I'd recommend the direct opposite or that the interrupter levers are removed.

See, now mine are definitely firmer and more powerful than the main levers. I could just as easily be saying to you that interrupter levers give more power, even if you don't fully notice it

I guess you could, but it'd be wrong. Maybe it is the Tricross levers (after all, they do ship them with a warning sticker explicitly telling you that they're sh*t :roll:), or maybe it's the combo of interrupter levers + cantilever brakes... who knows? But I'm not the only on who has issues with interrupter levers.

I personally would not recommend them based on my experience and the experience of others that I know, but at the end of the day it's an individual choice. I only see the 'cons' with interrupter levers, very minimal 'pros'.