Poppies
Comments
-
cyclingprop wrote:FIFA banning poppies? Much less controversial to ban football isn't it? After all, the only important sports are cycling and rugby...
(just saying....!)
Really? Rugby?
A lot of big ugly men groping each other and writhing around on the floor getting covered in mud.
For a ball game, you don't see a lot of the ball, since it's inevitably either under a pile of bodies or under some sweaty armpit.
It's not like you can even defend it by saying they cheat and dope less than cyclists.
I can definitely see the attraction if I was gay.0 -
I'm not sure what other countries do to remember their war dead.
I do remember the 2 minute silence being held in work a few years back, and my German student came in to ask what it was all about.
Unfortunately for her, her colleague was a French student and she cut her short.
"You should know what it is all about. You started it !"0 -
It's all pretty similar.
The Dutch have Dodenherdenking for example, which is basically the same, minus the poppy fundraising.0 -
TailWindHome wrote:Say (for talk sake) that the Argentinian Legion sold daffodils to raise money for their veterans and to commemorate their dead
Let's say that a England v Argentina friendly falls on April 2 (Malvenas Day)
Are those who say that the Poppy is non political OK with the Argentinian team wearing the Daffodil on their shirts?
(Daffodil's are made up....Malvenas day is real)
Not only would I not have a problem with it, if it was an away match, I'd stand and observe the silence! The soldiers are not the ones who make the decisions that lead to wars.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:cyclingprop wrote:FIFA banning poppies? Much less controversial to ban football isn't it? After all, the only important sports are cycling and rugby...
(just saying....!)
Really? Rugby?
A lot of big ugly men groping each other and writhing around on the floor getting covered in mud.
For a ball game, you don't see a lot of the ball, since it's inevitably either under a pile of bodies or under some sweaty armpit.
It's not like you can even defend it by saying they cheat and dope less than cyclists.
I can definitely see the attraction if I was gay.
Not like you to display such ignorance..Purveyor of sonic doom
Very Hairy Roadie - FCN 4
Fixed Pista- FCN 5
Beared Bromptonite - FCN 140 -
Clever Pun wrote:
Not like you to display such ignorance..
It's probably a hangover from the general sh!t I get from the office about cycling, when they bang on, and on, and on, and on about how amazing rugby is.
*sighs*.
That and the amount of awful rugby parties I ended up being a part of when I DJ'd a bit when I was younger.
Suffice to say, I've never seen so many cross dressers or penises before or since.
*BANTER!* *groan*0 -
Errr, aren't we forgetting one thing?
The Engerlish invented football so if we want to remember the soldiers fallen in the various just and unjust wars we have engaged in over the last hundred years in a footy match AT WEMBERLEY then we can.
fathers for justice!0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:It's all pretty similar.
The Dutch have Dodenherdenking for example, which is basically the same, minus the poppy fundraising.
I notice that France has also started observing a day of homage for the 11th, with Elysée cheeses visiting Compiègne, where the Armistice was signed. A Le Monde headline refers to an homage that has become more political than historical, with a picture of Teacozy and Angela Merkel at the French commemoration 2 years ago. So, in this context, political yes, but not divisively so because it stands as a commemoration for all whose lives were taken in war . I doubt that Merkel will be attending this year, though... ( http://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article ... id=1602317 )0 -
clarkey cat wrote:Errr, aren't we forgetting one thing?
The Engerlish invented football so if we want to remember the soldiers fallen in the various just and unjust wars we have engaged in over the last hundred years in a footy match AT WEMBERLEY then we can.
fathers for justice!
You'd like the Book of Dave by Will Self
0 -
deptfordmarmoset wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:It's all pretty similar.
The Dutch have Dodenherdenking for example, which is basically the same, minus the poppy fundraising.
I notice that France has also started observing a day of homage for the 11th, with Elysée cheeses visiting Compiègne, where the Armistice was signed. A Le Monde headline refers to an homage that has become more political than historical, with a picture of Teacozy and Angela Merkel at the French commemoration 2 years ago. So, in this context, political yes, but not divisively so because it stands as a commemoration for all whose lives were taken in war . I doubt that Merkel will be attending this year, though... ( http://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article ... id=1602317 )
You wonder whether this emergence of more aggressively promoted 'collective memory' by people who increasingly can't actually remember that kind of warfare is to do with the distance from WW1 & 2.
As it gets distanced, the actual memories die away and the memory of it becomes increasingly abstract and, therefore, political.
Though naturally the UK has been involved in wars since, many in fact, the proportion of the people affected by the wars is still very small compared to the genuinely national experience in WW1 and 2.
That would explain a similar emergence in France for example.0 -
As I understood it, it is support for the British army.
Rubbish.
It's commeration of the sacrifices made by British and Commonwealth servicemen. I take it you can understand the distinction between the individuals who sacrificed life and limb and the institutions of the armed forces?
It's not a celebration of victories or an endorsement of any specific military action.
It doesn't imply a lack fo respect for the fallen of other countries, it's just a recognition of the sacrifices of our own.
I don't think that is political.
Now, on the topic of the FA etc. Well I can't get excited about whether or not England get to wear armbands with poppies on them. I too smell the work of PR people rather han a real focus on the fallen. The photos in the papers of gold boots embroidered with the player's name and a poppy underneath seem rather distasteful to me. The blingness of it really grates when I think of the dignified ex-servicemen standing at the station, dressed smartly, selling poppies and thanking everyone politely as the drop a contribution in the tin.
J0 -
jedster wrote:As I understood it, it is support for the British army.
Rubbish.
It's commeration of the sacrifices made by British and Commonwealth servicemen. I take it you can understand the distinction between the individuals who sacrificed life and limb and the institutions of the armed forces?
It's not a celebration of victories or an endorsement of any specific military action.
It doesn't imply a lack fo respect for the fallen of other countries, it's just a recognition of the sacrifices of our own.
I don't think that is political.
Now, on the topic of the FA etc. Well I can't get excited about whether or not England get to wear armbands with poppies on them. I too smell the work of PR people rather han a real focus on the fallen. The photos in the papers of gold boots embroidered with the player's name and a poppy underneath seem rather distasteful to me. The blingness of it really grates when I think of the dignified ex-servicemen standing at the station, dressed smartly, selling poppies and thanking everyone politely as the drop a contribution in the tin.
J
Pretty sure the money goes to the British Legion, right?
And what if, god forbid, you're a pacific, and anti-war? Then you'd see it as political too...0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:jedster wrote:As I understood it, it is support for the British army.
Rubbish.
It's commeration of the sacrifices made by British and Commonwealth servicemen. I take it you can understand the distinction between the individuals who sacrificed life and limb and the institutions of the armed forces?
It's not a celebration of victories or an endorsement of any specific military action.
It doesn't imply a lack fo respect for the fallen of other countries, it's just a recognition of the sacrifices of our own.
I don't think that is political.
Now, on the topic of the FA etc. Well I can't get excited about whether or not England get to wear armbands with poppies on them. I too smell the work of PR people rather han a real focus on the fallen. The photos in the papers of gold boots embroidered with the player's name and a poppy underneath seem rather distasteful to me. The blingness of it really grates when I think of the dignified ex-servicemen standing at the station, dressed smartly, selling poppies and thanking everyone politely as the drop a contribution in the tin.
J
Pretty sure the money goes to the British Legion, right?
And what if, god forbid, you're a pacific, and anti-war? Then you'd see it as political too...
The British Legion is a charity which provides support for ex-soldiers, not a military or political organisation. To me, being 'anti-war' does not mean that you can't respect the sacrifice of people who fought in them.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:deptfordmarmoset wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:It's all pretty similar.
The Dutch have Dodenherdenking for example, which is basically the same, minus the poppy fundraising.
I notice that France has also started observing a day of homage for the 11th, with Elysée cheeses visiting Compiègne, where the Armistice was signed. A Le Monde headline refers to an homage that has become more political than historical, with a picture of Teacozy and Angela Merkel at the French commemoration 2 years ago. So, in this context, political yes, but not divisively so because it stands as a commemoration for all whose lives were taken in war . I doubt that Merkel will be attending this year, though... ( http://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article ... id=1602317 )
You wonder whether this emergence of more aggressively promoted 'collective memory' by people who increasingly can't actually remember that kind of warfare is to do with the distance from WW1 & 2.
As it gets distanced, the actual memories die away and the memory of it becomes increasingly abstract and, therefore, political.
Though naturally the UK has been involved in wars since, many in fact, the proportion of the people affected by the wars is still very small compared to the genuinely national experience in WW1 and 2.
That would explain a similar emergence in France for example.
In France, the fact that Sarkozy has made it a bit his own presidential legacy adds a clear political perspective. And there's opposition from other parties, who don't want it to become a purely WW1 anniversary, diverting attention from other war victims.
On a personal level, I'm an old guy, and my paternal grandfather died in WW1, yet although it still holds a personal meaning for me, it is a little abstract. And I haven't worn a poppy for many years - the slightly militaristic ''they died for you'' pressure to wear one disgusts me. I've my own way of reflecting on the war dead and the way their deaths affect future generations.0 -
<i>On a personal level, I'm an old guy, and my paternal grandfather died in WW1, yet although it still holds a personal meaning for me, it is a little abstract. And I haven't worn a poppy for many years - the slightly militaristic ''they died for you'' pressure to wear one disgusts me. I've my own way of reflecting on the war dead and the way their deaths affect future generations.</i>
That's fair enough. The thing is I still think about my grandparents (both now dead). My Grandfather was a 16 year-old midshipman at the battle of Jutland, he served on the arctic convoys in WWII, and in the Pacific. He commanded a carrier in the Korean War. My Grandmother lost her brother and father in WWI. I know how much it still meant to her that people bothered to wear a poppy even 70 years on. To my mind, that is reason enough to wear one. I always feel awful when I lose mine in early November just in case I am seen without one by an ex-serviceman or by someone who has lost family.0 -
To be honest, I think being 'anti-war' is the best support you can give soldiers. I have a lot of respect for people who devote their lives to the defence of this country and the principles it (should) stand for. It is a shameful tragedy whenever a solider dies in an unjust war.rhext wrote:The British Legion is a charity which provides support for ex-soldiers, not a military or political organisation. To me, being 'anti-war' does not mean that you can't respect the sacrifice of people who fought in them.0
