London 12th Nov: Tour of 10 worst junctions
Comments
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I'm not convinced that Copenhagen and Amsterdam make much of a argument mainly from size.
Coperhagen - about 2 million
Amsterdam - about bit over 1 million
Netherlands 17 million
London is 13 Million.
london is by any measure a far bigger and Busier place.0 -
roger merriman wrote:I'm not convinced that Copenhagen and Amsterdam make much of a argument mainly from size.
Coperhagen - about 2 million
Amsterdam - about bit over 1 million
Netherlands 17 million
London is 13 Million.
london is by any measure a far bigger and Busier place.
Maybe it's not a fair comparison, but it's worth pointing out that the Netherland's population density is about 50% higher than the UK as a whole - so not far off the density of SE England. There's a lot of people in a small area and public policy has shown that bikes can thrive in such area.0 -
Did the whole ride, was a thoroughly enjoyable morning (and start to the afternoon!).
IMHO the ride was to highlight the dangers that cyclists face as they navigate the roads in our city. Looking over the list I'd already ridden 8 of them and I'm sure I'd driven through the last 2! HPC used to be a PITA in a car so I know for certain it would be requite me to "keep my wits about me" (to quote BoJo) if I attempted it by bike.
The thing we have to remember is we (the forumites) are generally speaking fairly experienced riders, whilst we wouldn't all have problems negotiating these junctions that comes from our many years of experience riding around busy roads, dealing with idiotic drivers and developing our Spidey Senses. IT is exactly these junctions that scare would-be riders off choosing to use a bike vs. their car or PT. How many people on here would ride round these with their children? Cycling provisions need to be designed for the least skilled riders to be really effective. If this means holding a few motorists then so be it, maybe they'll realize there are better ways to get around town!
Whilst I'm not expecting a complete "Go Dutch" overhaul of the streets in London a few small concessions towards safer cycling would be nice.0 -
deptfordmarmoset wrote:roger merriman wrote:I'm not convinced that Copenhagen and Amsterdam make much of a argument mainly from size.
Coperhagen - about 2 million
Amsterdam - about bit over 1 million
Netherlands 17 million
London is 13 Million.
london is by any measure a far bigger and Busier place.
Maybe it's not a fair comparison, but it's worth pointing out that the Netherland's population density is about 50% higher than the UK as a whole - so not far off the density of SE England. There's a lot of people in a small area and public policy has shown that bikes can thrive in such area.
this is true, but this is about london's junctions, and well london is a lot bigger, by a huge margin.
What works for small Dutch cities i'm dubious off working in one of the biggest cities in the world.
London has for years (decades even) being hollowing out, so people commute a fair old distance, thats quite a ask for a dutch system.
Even in the Dutch system cyclists get killed, at the moment more than uk, probably due to numbers game.0 -
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Yet another of the ''hey hey hey look look look this is bad please let's make the state fix it mum mum mum I'm hungry' brigade:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-157260230 -
Snorebens wrote:Yet another of the ''hey hey hey look look look this is bad please let's make the state fix it mum mum mum I'm hungry' brigade:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15726023
TFL have just announced that Bow roundabout and its partial Cycle Superhighway will be reviewed:The layout of a junction in east London is to be reviewed after the deaths of two cyclists in three weeks.
Transport for London (TfL) director Ben Plowden promised to look "very closely" at the cycling superhighway which ran through the Bow Roundabout.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-157413790 -
Snorebens wrote:Yet another of the ''hey hey hey look look look this is bad please let's make the state fix it mum mum mum I'm hungry' brigade:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15726023
I think that's rather unfair and incredibly insensitive to suggest the video of the interview with the widow of Brian Dowling is anything like that. Yes she is calling for improvements but only to remedy the patently obvious design defects in this "Cycle SUPERHighway". This is coming from a non-cyclist who herself says she wasn't aware of exactly what this scheme entailed. She then goes on to say that had she known how dangerous this route was she wouldn't have been happy with her husband riding on it.
Surely if someone like her can see how ridiculous this cycle lane is then TFL should have no excuse (oh except maybe the various reports they ignored suggesting accidents would be inevitable....)
As for the "getting the state to fix it part" what exactly is wrong with this? After all wasn't it designed and implemented by a government body? It's not exactly as if a few cyclists can just come along and rip it up and do it all over again is it? The whole of that intersection at Bow is a great big testament to the fact that TFL don't give a rat arse about cyclists or pedestrians and are more interested in trying to move as much motorised traffic through there as possible. If that wasn't the case then both of those groups would have safe ways to negotiate or cross it.0 -
@BJUK - I think you'll find Snorebens comments and link were a pointed reference to an earlier post in this thread that contained the facetious remark: ''hey hey hey look look look this is bad please let's make the state fix it mum mum mum I'm hungry'".
More importantly, there will be a vigil this Friday at Bow: http://www.towerhamletswheelers.org.uk/ ... bout-vigil0 -
Origamist wrote:
It appears that TfL will be advising cyclists not to use their own cycle superhighway.... I wonder whether BJ has twigged that he needs to dissociate himself from this particular aberration....Transport for London (TfL) director Ben Plowden promised to look "very closely" at the cycling superhighway which ran through the Bow Roundabout.
He also said cyclists would be advised to avoid the route, which runs to the Olympic Park, during next year's Games.
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But Mr Plowden said there would be "several preferred ways" to reach Stratford next summer.
"In fact we will be directing people deliberately away from the Bow Roundabout," he added.0
