Help me decide on new wheels - Hope II or Mavic Crossride

Criller

Hi,

I'm going to buy new wheels for my Rockhopper 07 Disc. After reading through various BikeRadar posts and getting some advice from this forum a few months ago I've narrowed my choice down to the following:-

Hope Pro II / XC717 £325 approx
Mavic Crossride 2011 Disc £190 approx

Nowdays I do 80% commute and 20% off road. I'm looking for something that will give me reliability and a good life span. (Current Specialised Alex’s have done 8K miles)

I know you get what you pay for but is it worth paying the extra £125 for the Hope set-up?

Also will both of the above fit my bike without mods needed?

Thanks

supersonic

I'd go for these:

http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_ ... cts_id=501

Price of the Crossride, as good as the Hopes.

cooldad

You might want to avoid the Tanks with 150mm hubs though.

Criller

I'll take a look at these also. I have done a quick Google and a few people have said that the bearings do not last very long in the Switch hubs. Are you a user of these hubs?

Thanks

Brocklanders023

Can't comment on the others but I've had a couple of Hope Pro 2 based wheelsets and never had a problem. If they do get a bit sticky or the bearings wear they're really easy to fix yourself and Hope have good quality 'walk through' vids online.

nicklouse

Criller wrote:

I'll take a look at these also. I have done a quick Google and a few people have said that the bearings do not last very long in the Switch hubs. Are you a user of these hubs?

Thanks

makes little difference as you will be replacing and upgrading the bearings when they do fail.

johnsav

ive been running switch hubs for the last year and not a problem thus far.

estampida

I have 2 hope wheel sets (hand built by me) with sun rims they are very stiff and light

My missus has xride's, she did not want £300 wheels as would never really use them like that

bit twangy, very light

never had to service the mavic's yet but they have some issues according to google

spoke pop out - only when really pushing the wheels
freehub's have been know to fail at the wrong time
some of them have duff front wheel bearings (might have sorted this by now & the set in the house have never had any of these problems)

with hope I have had no problems with warranty, and never claimed from mavic, but have had warranty claims rejected by French company's before, and that is a very different story........

superstar wheels are a little heavy, and have seen a set that I had to re-tension cos they made a mess of them in the factory.........

and my cat has this to say on the matter --
frttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt76666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666b

holiver

Merlin have a code for 5% off factory wheelsets at the moment. The Crossrides (6 bolt version) are pretty cheap there even without the code!

junglist_matty

I am also looking for lighter wheels. Had my eye on the SuperStar wheels, but then I've read some bad things about SuperStar but also a lot of good things... I already have Hope Pro 2 hubs and they have never gone wrong. The great thing with Pro2 wheels (and the superstar) is that you can fairly easily change the wheel to fit any frame / fork.

I have a pair of Mavic Crossmax ST wheels from 2008 and they are super light, very fast wheels, but they are QR so I can't use them with my QR15 fork... As for the Mavic hubs I've never had a problem and the wheels have been given a fair bit of abuse through Welsh singletrack and they've stayed true... I'm guessing the newer cheaper Mavic's are comparable to my ST's from 3,4 years ago.


And just to throw another lightweight mid-budget wheel into the mix (was very tempted by these wheels)...

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=55226

supersonic

You can change the Switch hubs just as easily. They are about the same weight as Hope, and if talking about reputation, Hope rear hubs have a pretty bad failure record! Crossrides are not worth that money, 150 at the most.

Northwind

Aye, Hope bearing life isn't all that good, and they have a wee bit of a habit of having the rear hub body break in half (it's just a bad batch, obviously ) But they're still good.

I wouldn't buy Pro 2s on 717s, not for that price. Fairly cheap heavy and skinny, (but reliable) rims on expensive hubs. If you're looking at Hope Hoops, the Stans options are far better value- better rims, and more expensive, but the Hoops packages work out cheaper than they should.

Superstar, mmm... I've seen various of their wheels, and some are absolutely spot on, better than most wheelbuilds. And some are a bit crap. Whether it's different people or friday afternoon builds or whatever, I don't know. And their customer service is frankly just as inconsistent. But I wouldn't let that put me off, they're still great value and can usually be convinced to do the right thing eventually. Just do be aware that the low price can come with some hassle attached.

welsh_14

I am also looking for some new wheels and like the look of the superstar set, and how customisable they are! Anyone know what their XC-430 rims are like and what is the difference between their switch hub and their superfast front hub?
On another note is it worth spending an extra £25 on double butted spokes instead of plain gauge?
In answer to OP I wouldnt want to spend £325 on hope hubs with XC717, have you looked at other rims? Stans seem to be the ones to get with hope hubs from what i have seen. I run XC717 rims admitedly on Deore hub and it does seem quite heavy. For that sort of money i would want something lighter!
Superstar seems to have swayed me their way. Even if bearings dont last ages the money you save can be spent on better quality bearings when the time comes

njee20

I wouldn't buy Pro 2s on 717s, not for that price. Fairly cheap heavy and skinny, (but reliable) rims on expensive hubs. If you're looking at Hope Hoops, the Stans options are far better value- better rims, and more expensive, but the Hoops packages work out cheaper than they should.

This (Northwind you're on form - that's the second time in 30 minutes I've quoted your advice), look at the Hope Hoops on Crest rims, stonking value, and a far superior rim IMO.

junglist_matty

Northwind wrote:

Aye, Hope bearing life isn't all that good, and they have a wee bit of a habit of having the rear hub body break in half (it's just a bad batch, obviously ) But they're still good.

I've never once had a problem with Hope bearing life.... Had my hubs about 2.5 years and bearings are as smooth as when new. Also know a fair few others who run Hope hubs, none have had to replace bearings.
That's not to say there aren't a few bad batches of them as I'm sure there must be a few with the amount they shift.

Northwind wrote:

I wouldn't buy Pro 2s on 717s, not for that price. Fairly cheap heavy and skinny, (but reliable) rims on expensive hubs. If you're looking at Hope Hoops, the Stans options are far better value- better rims, and more expensive, but the Hoops packages work out cheaper than they should.

I have to disagree with you about the XC717 being heavy ....At least I don't count 400grams as a heavy rim.


The issue I have with NoTubes is being a heavy rider... There seems (From what I've read) to be a lot of heavier riders who break the NoTubes rims, whereas I've not heard of heavy rider's breaking XC717's.

I would compare the Stans Flows to the XC717 (as I'm not confident in the strength of the lighter stans being a heavier rider).... The flows are actually heavier and more expensive than the XC717s, so going for the XC717's is a no brainer for me.

junglist_matty

Forgot to add... I wouldn't pay £325 for a pair of Hope's on 717s, you can get them cheaper than that!

EDIT:
£99.99 front, £166 rear:
http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Hope-Hoops-Pro- ... =Froogle02

junglist_matty

By the way, for anyone wanting a QR front and QR rear, I have had my eye on this wheelset for a while now, but I don't need another set of lightweight QR wheels.

Bearing in mind the rear hub is about £250 on its own and the front about £130, this is one of the best wheel bargains you will come across....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160660741427? ... 969wt_1003

supersonic

I'd agree the 717 is tougher than the crest. 60g heavier, so swings and roundabouts. The hope 717 is too much at 325. Always get db spokes.

njee20

I would compare the Stans Flows to the XC717 (as I'm not confident in the strength of the lighter stans being a heavier rider).... The flows are actually heavier and more expensive than the XC717s, so going for the XC717's is a no brainer for me.

That's a daft comparison - the Flow has been used in WC DH racing, and is an 'all mountain' rim, the XC717 is purely an XC rim.

My Olympics were far tougher than my 717s, which dented very easily, certainly no stronger, my Crests have been faultless. The only real areas I can see the 717 is stronger is the eyelets (although I've not seen a Stan's rim crack on the spoke holes) and the price. Personally given the choice I'd not even consider the 717s again, YMMV of course, but I know a lot more people who've trashed 717s than Stan's rims.

Your lack of confidence in the lighter product does not mean it's inferior.

bobgfish

I have had a set of hope wheels for ages and they have been throughly abused and are still good. Not the same hubs you are talking about but they are good. The Stans Crest rim is lighter than the XC717 by 40 grams and should be fine. You should be able to pay about £280 a pair.

junglist_matty

supersonic wrote:

I'd agree the 717 is tougher than the crest. 60g heavier, so swings and roundabouts. The hope 717 is too much at 325. Always get db spokes.

To be fair, for most riders on this forum, a 340gram rim compared with a 400gram rim won't be noticeable... Going on a diet for a month or taking a month off from the pub will.... That's the kind of difference we are talking about here.

junglist_matty

njee20 wrote:

That's a daft comparison - the Flow has been used in WC DH racing, and is an 'all mountain' rim, the XC717 is purely an XC rim.

My Olympics were far tougher than my 717s, which dented very easily, certainly no stronger, my Crests have been faultless. The only real areas I can see the 717 is stronger is the eyelets (although I've not seen a Stan's rim crack on the spoke holes) and the price. Personally given the choice I'd not even consider the 717s again, YMMV of course, but I know a lot more people who've trashed 717s than Stan's rims.

Your lack of confidence in the lighter product does not mean it's inferior.

1. 'all mountain' is no different to 'aggressive XC'
2. I mentioned for heavy riders

Crests have a recommended rider limit of 85kgs (13.5stone)
Flows have a recommended rider limit of 115kgs (18stone)

Considering I weigh about 17stone, what I wrote is valid. I can't exactly consider the Crests or the Olympics, yet I can consider the 717.... Plus I know the 717 are strong enough for "all mountain" because I borrowed a friends spare bike one weekend in Afan (genesis core20) which had XC717's (on Shimano XT hubs) and they held up fine and we weren't riding with too much caution.

As for breaking 717's... In my younger days of jumping and DH I broke many a D521, probably once a month I was back in the shop getting a wheel rebuilt. That doesn't mean the D521 (now EX721) is a rubbish weak wheel does it? It broke because I crashed or did something silly.

EDIT: A couple of years back I remember a dirt jumper using a set of reynolds carbon wheels recommended for something silly like 75kg weight and light XC; just because someone used the Flows for DH racing doesn't mean they are going to be a reliable wheel for the average rider to continuously use for the same purpose.

jayson

If you want a set of strong wheels how about goin for EN521 rims over 717's? They are heavier yes but they're much stronger in comparison and in the real world a difference of less than 100g per wheel prob wouldnt even be noticable, your choice of tires would affect more the feel/handling.

As soon as i can get some cash sorted im goin to have another set built up, im just deciding which hubs to go for, XT or Hope.

lostboysaint

jayson wrote:

If you want a set of strong wheels how about goin for EN521 rims over 717's? They are heavier yes but they're much stronger in comparison and in the real world a difference of less than 100g per wheel prob wouldnt even be noticable, your choice of tires would affect more the feel/handling.

As soon as i can get some cash sorted im goin to have another set built up, im just deciding which hubs to go for, XT or Hope.

Big, big fan (Literally at 6'4" and 98kg) of the EN521. Have them built onto Hope hubs on the Yeti and onto XT on the On-One. Great rim, light enough but completely reliable, even when I started riding again on them at 115kg!

njee20

Plus I know the 717 are strong enough for "all mountain" because I borrowed a
friends spare bike one weekend in Afan

C'mon - that's XC! I'd be upset if any rim got trashed by a routine ride at Afan!

I'm not getting into a debate about whether Stan's rims are right, nor about XC/trail/all mountain/whatever, but to compare the XC717 to the Flow is daft, they are totally different rims.

ride_whenever

junglist_matty wrote:

As for breaking 717's... In my younger days of jumping and DH I broke many a D521, probably once a month I was back in the shop getting a wheel rebuilt.

How the hell did you manage that? My DH'ing mate Ed swears by the D521 rims as the only rims he's never damaged in any way. (To give you an idea of the stick he gives his kit I saw one of his used 823 rims, it was egg shaped and had come un-pinned and welded... :shock: )

Northwind

junglist_matty wrote:

I would compare the Stans Flows to the XC717 (as I'm not confident in the strength of the lighter stans being a heavier rider).... The flows are actually heavier and more expensive than the XC717s, so going for the XC717's is a no brainer for me.

Um. XC717 is an XC rim, clue is in the name There's a reason Mavic make the 719 and 721. There's nothing wrong with them- they resist dents very well for an XC rim- but they're heavy for what they are.

Flow is directly comparable with the 721. Lighter, and a little softer, but just as strong. And wider IIRC.

supersonic

Mavic rims tend to be deeper and narrower, Stans shallower and wider. Be good to see Mavic offer some of the Cross Max rims after market, or other alternatives. I think many 717 rims are sold aftermarket, and Mavic prefer the eyelets for home builders to use. Still choice would be nice ;-)

Either way, the Superstar/717 at 200, or Superstar/Crest at 220 are very good for the money.

junglist_matty

ride_whenever wrote:

junglist_matty wrote:

As for breaking 717's... In my younger days of jumping and DH I broke many a D521, probably once a month I was back in the shop getting a wheel rebuilt.

How the hell did you manage that? My DH'ing mate Ed swears by the D521 rims as the only rims he's never damaged in any way. (To give you an idea of the stick he gives his kit I saw one of his used 823 rims, it was egg shaped and had come un-pinned and welded... :shock: )

Yep, they were very strong rims, took a lot to break them, although once a month is a bit of an over-exaggeration I probably broke 3 or 4 of them.
Two that I remember well, the first one (which hurt) happened when I tried to bunny hop a road gap (about 7ft wide), didn't quite get the clean hop I wanted and landed the rear wheel clean on the edge of the far kerb, instant wheel break.
The second was when I hopped down a fair sized set of stairs (I guess about 5ft vertical, 5ft out) to flat and the rear wheel ended up with a massive flat spot and a few broke spokes
And another I don't remember so well was when we tried dirt jumping for the first time, I tried the bigger gap, landed hard don't remember too much else about it other than getting up and seeing a very bent front wheel.

Those were the days before I discovered beer, then I got unfit and didn't ride too much... Then sold the Kona Stinky and had an XC bike for a while... Don't do jumping these days, I prefer to watch other people doing it!

junglist_matty

Northwind wrote:

Um. XC717 is an XC rim, clue is in the name There's a reason Mavic make the 719 and 721. There's nothing wrong with them- they resist dents very well for an XC rim- but they're heavy for what they are.

Flow is directly comparable with the 721. Lighter, and a little softer, but just as strong. And wider IIRC.

I didn't ever say the 717 was not an XC rim. What is difficult to get across is that heavier riders like myself cannot choose a lot of the light-weight XC rims simply because of the fact they are not strong enough and have max rider weights way under what I weigh.

Northwind

Aye, but why are you assuming the 717 is stronger, just because Mavic don't give recommended rider weights?

Actually, hang on... Stans don't seem to give rider weights either. Hope do, for some of their specific wheelsets but the 85kg limit I can find for Crests is for the Pro 3 XC3 with 24 race spokes- that's a wheel weight limit not a rim limit. And that's a very lightweight build.