Dale Farm

Wallace1492

Right, what is this all about. £18m operation to sort it out?

I am sure if they spent a fraction of this helping the travellers it would all have ended up much better all round.

rick_chasey

Wallace1492 wrote:

Right, what is this all about. £18m operation to sort it out?

I am sure if they spent a fraction of this helping the travellers it would all have ended up much better all round.

But then Tory voters would be aaangry.

asprilla

The Daily Mash wrote:

Dale Farm eviction brings out best in everyone

THE eviction of the Dale Farm travellers' site has really brought out Britain's good side, it has been confirmed.

As police and bailiffs did a fantastic job of putting the boot in, they were cheered on by millions of people around the country who finally got the chance to see their seething anti-Gypsy bigotry played out on live television.

Meanwhile, the brave travellers, most of whom have not moved a muscle in 10 years, were defended by anti-establishment protestors with a passionate hatred for stone cold facts.

Earlier the travellers made barriers from asbestos sheeting in a bid to give policemen lung cancer, while the police responded with the sort of joyful, improvised brutality they usually reserve for middle class students.

Television news crews were in the thick of the action to ensure Britain's gypsy-haters went off to work with a spring in their steps, while also allowing left-wingers who are very impressed with themselves to fill twitter with the word 'holocaust'.

The Tory leader of Basildon council repeated his claim that the eviction was merely the ultimate enforcement of planning law, while knowing that most of the people who vote for him think Irish travellers are a sub-species and could not care less about the piffling technicalities.

Julian Cook, professor of quirky factoids at Roehampton University, said: "While generalisations tend to be unreliable, Irish traveller communities do seem to share a belief in two key things - family and making money.

"Just like Mrs Thatcher."

He added: "But Vanessa Redgrave likes them because they are disliked by the people she dislikes. It's all very intelligent stuff.

"Meanwhile, they are being clubbed so enthusiastically because they sometimes leave litter behind and have the sort of tax avoiding skills that make the rest of us so incredibly jealous.

"Another great day for Britain. Well done!"

bails87

I just hope they return the site to it's former scrapyard glory once they've kicked the travellers off.

That would definitely be A Good Thing. Bloody gypsies, clearing up our scrapyards, disgusting.

essex-commuter

I work just outside Baz, lots of helicpoters around this morning, and everyone was complaining about being late in ths morning because of roadblocks etc. Didn't see anything on me bike at 6.30am!

Maxticate

Wallace1492 wrote:

Right, what is this all about. £18m operation to sort it out?

I am sure if they spent a fraction of this helping the travellers it would all have ended up much better all round.

What makes them so special that they should have 18M spent on them 'helping' them out?

rick_chasey

Maxticate wrote:

Wallace1492 wrote:

Right, what is this all about. £18m operation to sort it out?

I am sure if they spent a fraction of this helping the travellers it would all have ended up much better all round.

What makes them so special that they should have 18M spent on them 'helping' them out?

He didn't say to spend all £18millon on them.

Wallace1492

Maxticate wrote:

Wallace1492 wrote:

Right, what is this all about. £18m operation to sort it out?

I am sure if they spent a fraction of this helping the travellers it would all have ended up much better all round.

What makes them so special that they should have 18M spent on them 'helping' them out?

It is £18m for the Operation to clear them off the area. Local taxpayers money well spent? My suggestion is that if only a fraction of this was spent sorting out the situation for mutual benefit, then this surely would be better.

What makes them special is that they are human beings with a historic way of life. This will be alien to you, and you will no doubt dislike it, but everyone is special.

mudcow007

what i cant understand about this whole thing is....The "travellers" bought a site an put houses/ caravans on the site. Then either expanded into the surrounding fields without planning permission I don't know if they bought the surrounding areas? etc

if i built an extension on my house into the field which is at the side of my house without planning permission. Im pretty certain i would be told of by the powers above (council) even if i did own the field

have i got the wrong end of the stick here?

suzyb

If they're travellers, why aren't they travelling

mudcow007

suzyb wrote:

If they're travellers, why aren't they travelling

im told static travelling is all the rage now-a days

rick_chasey

*rolls eyes* Did someone just make the travellers not travelling comment?

They don't travel much because they often have nowhere to travel to. There are a number of sites. In this case, there was a site, and next to it a plot of (what seems to be) unused land which these people, without planning permission, built on.

That is of course, if they even want to travel. Just because you call them that, doesn't mean they have to, to keep your naming criteria accurate.

Most 'travellers' or 'gypsies' or whatever you want to call them cause no trouble at all, pay the council for services they use, (they get their water and electricity through the council, at negotiated rates), and look after their area, contrary to popular belief. As ever, no-one notices them, and no-one writes about them. You'd barely know many of them were sites by the look of them.

Dale farm is the exception. Let's not get all generalist about this, else the thread'll get shutdown for various inappropriate comments.

clarkey cat

Whether they're development is compliant with planning laws or not its still pretty sad to see police in full riot gear smashing people out of their homes.

EKE_38BPM

mudcow007 wrote:

if i built an extension on my house into the field which is at the side of my house without planning permission. Im pretty certain i would be told of by the powers above (council) even if i did own the field

have i got the wrong end of the stick here?

When I was at school one of my school-mate's family built an extension and loft conversion to their semi-detached house without planning permission. A few months after it was finished (roof on, services complete and fully decorated) the council found out and, after a delay for legal wrangling, the family was forced to demolish the extension and return the house to its original condition at their own cost.

This must have cost them a fortune (building and decorating the extension, legal battle and restoring the property), but I had (and still have) little sympathy for them. Rules is rules and all that.

Eventually, the family applied for planning permission and rebuilt the extension. Quite a few houses on the same road have now done the same sort of extension. They are all in a similar style and in keeping with the 'style' of the street.

If that family had to demolish their extension due to contravention of the planning laws, why should the Dale Farm 'travellers' get away with it? They are supposed to be travellers, why don't they just move on?

rick_chasey

EKE_38BPM wrote:

They are supposed to be travellers, why don't they just move on?

Fail.

mudcow007

it does seem very sad that riot Police have to get involved but i can't see any other way of resolving this...I couldn't really see the community moving on of their own accord

I'm pretty sure that quite a few of the families moved on before all the trouble kicked off avoiding confrontations etc, these are the families i feel sorry for. Not the families who have the attitude of "Hell no we wont go" who then start lobbing missiles and bricks at bailiffs an Police

MonkeyMonster

built on large areas of land they didn't have permission to - regardless of who or what they are its not allowed.

nuff said.

Pross

If they spent some of the money helping them out would they then spend some more on helping out non-travellers who decide to build illegally without planning consent or would it be some form of discriminatory policy which only applies to travellers?

What should be done is the costs should be reclaimed against the travellers which is what would happen in any other planning enforcement case.

EKE_38BPM

Rick Chasey wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

They are supposed to be travellers, why don't they just move on?

Fail.

Yes.
They failed to move on, they failed to comply with the law, they failed in their appeals and they are now failing in their attempts to resist the police and the bailiffs.

prawny

mudcow007 wrote:

suzyb wrote:

If they're travellers, why aren't they travelling

im told static travelling is all the rage now-a days

I believe the PC term is 'New Age Stay-cationers'

Stiff_Orange

clarkey cat wrote:

Whether they're development is compliant with planning laws or not its still pretty sad to see police in full riot gear smashing people out of their homes.

They're not. The police are not removing the caravans or structures that is the job of the baliffs.
The police are there to deal with a public order offence (i.e. obstructing an official of the courts). Most of the trouble being caused at Dale Farm isn't being caused by the residents of the illegal site but by the usual "smash the state" rent-a-mob who always tend to latch onto these events.

rick_chasey

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

They are supposed to be travellers, why don't they just move on?

Fail.

Yes.
They failed to move on, they failed to comply with the law, they failed in their appeals and they are now failing in their attempts to resist the police and the bailiffs.

You fail with sh1t pun chat about the 'travellers'.

clarkey cat

usual "smash the state" rent-a-mob who always tend to latch onto these events.

Ah - annoying gits.

Pross

Stiff_Orange wrote:

clarkey cat wrote:

Whether they're development is compliant with planning laws or not its still pretty sad to see police in full riot gear smashing people out of their homes.

They're not. The police are not removing the caravans or structures that is the job of the baliffs.
The police are there to deal with a public order offence (i.e. obstructing an official of the courts). Most of the trouble being caused at Dale Farm isn't being caused by the residents of the illegal site but by the usual "smash the state" rent-a-mob who always tend to latch onto these events.

+1 There is so much emotive cr@p spouted on this when all that is happening is the enforcement of the law of the land.

DonDaddyD

The prejudice and misunderstanding about travellers - the term and travellers - the culture is astounding.

It's like saying "You're black why are you brown".

Firstly, yes, without planning permission they shouldn't have built.

Travellers do move around, fact. They are by nature transient. Quite often they'd have a main base and travel around a Country and on occasion return to said main base (note I didn't say home). This Country has done numerous things to demonise Travellers and hinder their ability to enjoy their culture in this country. Not recognising them as a people, possible genuine ethnicity and culture are one of those things.

This is the latest in a long line of unreasonable actions to villanise the Travelling/Romany Gipsy culture. Yes, at times their near seperatist culture doesn't help themselves.

It would have cost Basildon Council LESS money to help the Travellers find a suitable site than the 18million to evict them. That money could have gone to schools, NHS or any other public service.

This type of thing happens up and down the Country where Councils rather evict than help embrace and accomodate their way of life.

ketsbaia

Pross wrote:

Stiff_Orange wrote:

clarkey cat wrote:

Whether they're development is compliant with planning laws or not its still pretty sad to see police in full riot gear smashing people out of their homes.

They're not. The police are not removing the caravans or structures that is the job of the baliffs.
The police are there to deal with a public order offence (i.e. obstructing an official of the courts). Most of the trouble being caused at Dale Farm isn't being caused by the residents of the illegal site but by the usual "smash the state" rent-a-mob who always tend to latch onto these events.

+1 There is so much emotive cr@p spouted on this when all that is happening is the enforcement of the law of the land.

Quite. If only all laws were backed up by £18m worth of riot police. It'd be a much better country then.

iPete

Perhaps my image and first hand experience with travelers is vastly wrong, a result of the media?

It seems to me that they are a horribly sexist society, with little equality that refuses to integrate but I've no doubt that, among the ranks, there are some lovely people. Having worked at a gypsy wedding, I can confirm in the nicest possible way that the group at this particular event, lacked manners.

[troll] Oh and they don't seem to travel much.[/troll]

I'd rather they let them stay at Dale cos lets face it, where are they going to go next?

bails87

iPete wrote:

Perhaps my image and first hand experience with travelers is vastly wrong, a result of the media?

It seems to me that they are a horribly sexist society, with little equality that refuses to integrate but I've no doubt that, among the ranks, there are some lovely people. Having worked at a gypsy wedding, I can confirm in the nicest possible way that the group at this particular event, lacked manners.

That may be, but has naff all relevance to an eviction.....unfortunately for people with arrsey neighbours

suzyb

Rick Chasey wrote:

*rolls eyes* Did someone just make the travellers not travelling comment?

*rolls eyes* Did someone not get my sarcasm.

mickbrown

It's got sod all to do with ethnicity or culture. It's a planning and legal issue, plain and simple.

Half the site is legal, so they can stay, half isn't so they need to bugger off.

rick_chasey

suzyb wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

*rolls eyes* Did someone just make the travellers not travelling comment?

*rolls eyes* Did someone not get my sarcasm.

No....