Cotic Soul - Why So Good?

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Comments

  • njee20
    njee20 Posts: 9,613
    But this is the point, you can make a carbon frame with that inherent 'flex' that people associate with ti. If a ti frame has that nice compliance it will generally be all floppy everywhere - carbon is more versatile.

    Ti frames are 'within my reach', but I'd never buy one!
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    ratty2k wrote:
    yer, but those debating how to shave a gram here and there mostly need to get a life! :lol:
    I've seen people asking about aluminium backed brake pads because they are lighter... FFS!
    I still say that to the vast majority of riders, 2lb will make little to no difference to their riding. If you aint racing, then 10th's of a second dont matter neither do full seconds either TBH, you are supposed to be enjoying a ride with mates! :D

    From reading here, I'd say the majority are concerned about weight! But as usual, comes down to the rider - I do notice the difference over long rides and moving the bike around underneath me. I'm not as obsessed as some, and stay on the side of 'sensibly light' - but all those bits add up, so I keep an eye open for lighter parts.
    GT ZASKAR CARBON TEAM

    VOODOO CANZO

    Come and see me at https://www.facebook.com/biketyke/
  • The Spiderman
    The Spiderman Posts: 5,625
    Interesting comment on the 905 v Soul.I always wonder if a well designed aluminium frame with the same geo and fat tyres would be any less good?
    2006 Giant XTC
    2010 Giant Defy Advanced
    2016 Boardman Pro 29er
    2016 Pinnacle Lithium 4
    2017 Canondale Supersix Evo
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,661
    It's not better or worse it's different!!

    Whatever material is used to make average joe frames , people will still buy something boutique and special. In fact i can't think of a single large company that makes steel or Ti frames, they re all small one man/tens of people operations. Saying that steel or Ti is finished because most frames won't be made of the is irrelevant because most frames ARE'NT made of them already!

    The vast majority of frames are made of alu or carbon because you can make something that performs well at the lowest possible price - ie bang for buck - which, whatever we like to think about large bike manufacturers, is all they care about. Race frames will always be made to go fast with everything else second place - most pro's will put up with bikes that hurt but are fast, not ones that are comfortable, or look good! If carbon drops in price enough so that GBP1000 bikes can be mass manufactured cheaper than aluminium then alu will be dropped like a lead balloon!

    But my mate, and all others who want something special, will still buy a Yeti 575 over a Trek Fuel, simply because a yeti is a yeti. People will sill buy Lynsky frames over a Carbon Stumpjumper HT, because a Lynsky is a Lynsky (sp?). The same thingapplies in almost "luxury goods" market.

    (there was a beautiful carbon spesh 29er in the shop near me last weekend - a cool EUR7000!)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    supersonic wrote:
    The carbon 456 is a great frame, passes the toughest CEN tests, and the rest will follow this eventually. Even if they charge £800, still a hell of a lot cheaper than a ti frame.

    The empahsis is on XC frames with carbon at the moment, but things are changing. In 5 years time, when carbon will be even cheaper (ti won't, nor top end steel) and the frames are even better, almost all mid to top end frames will be carbon.

    I can't see the value in titanium frames nowadays. Nor steel to be honest, apart from budget thrashers.

    At the end of the day, some people like their bikes to be built by people.

    Out with a mate on his Soul singlespeed today. Ace looking & riding bike. If you need anything lighter, you'd need to get over your anorexia first. Almost as nice as my Scapin
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    calvjones wrote:
    At the end of the day, some people like their bikes to be built by people.

    Ironically, these carbon frames are very labour intensive.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    Northwind wrote:
    calvjones wrote:
    At the end of the day, some people like their bikes to be built by people.

    Ironically, these carbon frames are very labour intensive.

    Not compared to welding a Ti frame I suspect. And the labour they use is pretty low skill and hence cheap.

    Nothing against them at all, but pouring ain't welding :D
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    If you need anything lighter, you'd need to get over your anorexia first

    A little presumptuous! My Zaskar frame is 1.5lbs lighter. I am not anorexic, I just prefer it that way.
    At the end of the day, some people like their bikes to be built by people

    Indeed, but there is nothing wrong with far eastern robot welded frames. Like the Cotic Soul. Very high quality.
    GT ZASKAR CARBON TEAM

    VOODOO CANZO

    Come and see me at https://www.facebook.com/biketyke/
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    Points taken. Cotic is still prettier tho :wink:
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • styxd
    styxd Posts: 3,234
    Indeed, but there is nothing wrong with far eastern robot welded frames. Like the Cotic Soul. Very high quality.

    I imagine the Cotic Soul is hand welded. Most frames are arent they?
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    I've heard that as well... Machine production, pipecutting etc but manual assembly. Hard to see how that load of Souls would have got the headtubes joints welded up funny if they were machine welded, frinstance.
    Uncompromising extremist
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    People put them in the jigs - machines weld them. Well, for 99% of frames out there. Interesting words from Cy on this:
    I don't build in Taiwan because of the price, I build in Taiwan because they know bikes inside out, it's what they specialise in, they don't want to charge you ridiculous money for tooling because they already have it, they're knowledgeable, enthusiast and a joy to work with. The price just means that I can offer great deals to customers, but that's just a commercial fact of life.

    A few years ago, but interesting.
    GT ZASKAR CARBON TEAM

    VOODOO CANZO

    Come and see me at https://www.facebook.com/biketyke/
  • blablablacksheep
    blablablacksheep Posts: 1,377
    most frames arent hand welded now-a-days but machined most of the way then "hand welded" so that they can be classed as hand made, :roll:

    but as sonic has said at the end of the day if the frame is good who cares how it was made, heck chinese children can make my bike if it ends up being bloody good mtb :P
    London2Brighton Challange 100k!
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  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    I'd sooner have machine-welded tbh... Robots don't go off and get pissed at lunchtime then weld your swingarm on squint (nb- Ragley welders get pissed at breakfast)
    Uncompromising extremist
  • MountainMonster
    MountainMonster Posts: 7,423
    On page 1 of this thread, I said i'd never had the pleasure of riding a steel frame, and that I wanted to try it. Little did I know a few months later i'd be snapping up a cotic soul frame here in Austria for super cheap :D

    Stoked to get it on the trail.
    My London Road
  • compositepro
    compositepro Posts: 60
    I wrote a column in this months WMB on the decline of steel and the reasons why.

    where can i get a copy of this article .

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