idiots with really bright rear lights

Stone Glider

Was it you near Exeter Airport 'tother day?

bicyclepirate

Rear lights are no where near as bad as the tools that ride down cycle paths with third uber lumen night suns pointed into the faces of oncoming pedestrians and cyclists. Especially on canal towpaths, you know who you are!!

lemoncurd

Aren't they really bright to try and stop idiot drivers from running into you?

Initialised

notsoblue wrote:

We seem to be a group with pretty narrow tolerances for what is right and wrong.

Narrow tyres = narrow mind?

jonny_trousers

lemoncurd wrote:

Aren't they really bright to try and stop idiot drivers from running into you?

That maybe the theory, but it's hugely flawed. Perhaps we should all get airzounds and give them a friendly warning blast at every junction we reach, just to stop idiot drivers from running into us I mean.

lemoncurd

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

lemoncurd wrote:

Aren't they really bright to try and stop idiot drivers from running into you?

That maybe the theory, but it's hugely flawed. Perhaps we should all get airzounds and give them a friendly warning blast at every junction we reach, just to stop idiot drivers from running into us I mean.

What rear light can I use then?

And where can you get airzounds - will probably need three or four?

jonny_trousers

lemoncurd wrote:

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

lemoncurd wrote:

Aren't they really bright to try and stop idiot drivers from running into you?

That maybe the theory, but it's hugely flawed. Perhaps we should all get airzounds and give them a friendly warning blast at every junction we reach, just to stop idiot drivers from running into us I mean.

What rear light can I use then?

And where can you get airzounds - will probably need three or four?

I'd think about going for any of the hundreds of options on the market that don't burn the retinas off those behind you.

And no idea, but Google is your friend. It might be worth simply mounting a fog horn on your handlebars instead, however. Or better still, if you could encourage Metallica to be towed along behind you...

UndercoverElephant

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

lemoncurd wrote:

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

lemoncurd wrote:

Aren't they really bright to try and stop idiot drivers from running into you?

That maybe the theory, but it's hugely flawed. Perhaps we should all get airzounds and give them a friendly warning blast at every junction we reach, just to stop idiot drivers from running into us I mean.

What rear light can I use then?

And where can you get airzounds - will probably need three or four?

I'd think about going for any of the hundreds of options on the market that don't burn the retinas off those behind you.

And no idea, but Google is your friend. It might be worth simply mounting a fog horn on your handlebars instead, however. Or better still, if you could encourage Metallica to be towed along behind you...

Lars Ulrich is a renowned drafting fairy.

dhope

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

lemoncurd wrote:

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

lemoncurd wrote:

Aren't they really bright to try and stop idiot drivers from running into you?

That maybe the theory, but it's hugely flawed. Perhaps we should all get airzounds and give them a friendly warning blast at every junction we reach, just to stop idiot drivers from running into us I mean.

What rear light can I use then?

And where can you get airzounds - will probably need three or four?

I'd think about going for any of the hundreds of options on the market that don't burn the retinas off those behind you.

And no idea, but Google is your friend. It might be worth simply mounting a fog horn on your handlebars instead, however. Or better still, if you could encourage Metallica to be towed along behind you...

Lars Ulrich is a renowned drafting fairy.

Sad but True

airbusboy

Oh FFS, MTFU overtake and stop moaning. It's one of the very few precautions as a road cyclist we can do to protect ourselves.......... I couldn't give a stuff if it's too bright, least the driver has seen me....

jonny_trousers

airbusboy wrote:

Oh FFS, MTFU overtake and stop moaning. It's one of the very few precautions as a road cyclist we can do to protect ourselves.......... I couldn't give a stuff if it's too bright, least the driver has seen me....

Hey, I'm not advocating no lights or weak lights, just ones that do not dazzle those behind you. I get your desire for self preservation, but if you don't give a stuff about your fellow road users then you can't get upset if they don't give a stuff about you.

London_Falcon

You just need to make sure you are seen...

Nothing Else Matters

kieranb

Well, you can't avoid them at the red lights unless you fancy closing your eyes or looking at the ground, not the best approach for cycling on roads. MTFU and overtake them? do you cycle in London? as there is always another one ahead anyway, if you slow down to let them pull away, then chances are you will be over taken by another, who will them nip in in front of you. Lights, some of the bog standard cateye lights around for years are fine, this has only become a problem for me over the last year of two, there seems to be a race on among makers to see who can create the brightest light,

I have a set of lumicycle front lights, but I point them slighty downwards out of others eyes, often rear lights will be mounted on the one bike at rack level, bag level and helmet level so not too easy to ignore.

Lights that blind are not the safest anyway, just think of those blinding car lights.

dhope

dhope wrote:

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Lars Ulrich is a renowned drafting fairy.

Sad but True

London_Falcon wrote:

You just need to make sure you are seen...

Nothing Else Matters

Absolutely, doesn't matter if you dazzle those following

No Remorse

W1

This is one of the most stupid threads on this site. Ever.

Bright front lights can be distracting, if they are beaming past you and reflecting back off traffic/road signs in front etc. But rear lights? Give over.

bails87

W1 wrote:

This is one of the most stupid threads on this site. Ever.

Bright front lights can be distracting, if they are beaming past you and reflecting back off traffic/road signs in front etc. But rear lights? Give over.

As either a cyclist or a driver, I've never thought "Hmmm, I really wish that bike's rear lights were harder to see. I want less warning that I'm approaching a cyclist".

jonny_trousers

W1 wrote:

This is one of the most stupid threads on this site. Ever.

Bright front lights can be distracting, if they are beaming past you and reflecting back off traffic/road signs in front etc. But rear lights? Give over.

You're missing the point. The distraction is to fellow road users, not to yourself. Have you honestly never been dazzled by an oncoming car/motorbike/bicycle with far too bright a headlight? Have you really not been forced to follow along behind a car driver who has left their fog lamp on and be really annoyed by how bright it is? The same applies to some rear bike lights. Admitedly they are rare, but they can be ludicrously bright to the point that they become a distraction. Perhaps I notice it more because I always have one of my journeys in darkness.

It's true, in the big picture it's not that important, but just like the OP stated in his OP, it's annoying nevertheless.

iPete

Should have posted in the rants thread along with..

People who don't have bright enough lights
People who wear high viz
People who think you need to wear high Viz
People who ride hybirds

Lucky Douglas

Are these lights brighter than the ones on cars??????

Don't think so.

jonny_trousers

bails87 wrote:

W1 wrote:

This is one of the most stupid threads on this site. Ever.

Bright front lights can be distracting, if they are beaming past you and reflecting back off traffic/road signs in front etc. But rear lights? Give over.

As either a cyclist or a driver, I've never thought "Hmmm, I really wish that bike's rear lights were harder to see. I want less warning that I'm approaching a cyclist".

Hmm, that's not really what anyone is suggesting now is it? To go with your approach, however, I have thought, "f*ck me, that's bright!" and seen floaty blotches as a result of an overly bright light in my line of vision.

jonny_trousers

Lucky Douglas wrote:

Are these lights brighter than the ones on cars??????

Don't think so.

The ones I am referring to most certainly are. If they weren't I wouldn't be commenting. Perhaps most of you out there have just not seen the type of thing me and the OP have and therefore cannot empathise.

bails87

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

bails87 wrote:

W1 wrote:

This is one of the most stupid threads on this site. Ever.

Bright front lights can be distracting, if they are beaming past you and reflecting back off traffic/road signs in front etc. But rear lights? Give over.

As either a cyclist or a driver, I've never thought "Hmmm, I really wish that bike's rear lights were harder to see. I want less warning that I'm approaching a cyclist".

Hmm, that's not really what anyone is suggesting now is it? To go with your approach, however, I have thought, "f*ck me, that's bright!" and seen floaty blotches as a result of an overly bright light in my line of vision.

That's exactly what you're suggesting. Less light=less visible.

I commute down national speed limit unlit roads and single track country lanes. Light is my friend.

As for lights being bright.

The Hope District and Magichshine MJ818 are both under 85 lumens, those are 'exceptionally' bright. Around the same as a car brakelight. The previous brightest before they came out was the L&M 180 at 35 lumens, and that was a long way ahead of the rest. EDIT: Exposure flare is apparently 75 lumens, fits in there somewhere.

A car headlight is anywhere from 700 lumens to3500 lumens

jonny_trousers

bails87 wrote:

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

bails87 wrote:

W1 wrote:

This is one of the most stupid threads on this site. Ever.

Bright front lights can be distracting, if they are beaming past you and reflecting back off traffic/road signs in front etc. But rear lights? Give over.

As either a cyclist or a driver, I've never thought "Hmmm, I really wish that bike's rear lights were harder to see. I want less warning that I'm approaching a cyclist".

Hmm, that's not really what anyone is suggesting now is it? To go with your approach, however, I have thought, "f*ck me, that's bright!" and seen floaty blotches as a result of an overly bright light in my line of vision.

That's exactly what you're suggesting. Less light=less visible.

Sure less light = less visible, but far too bright = uncomfortable to look at. There is a middle ground.

bails87 wrote:

I commute down national speed limit unlit roads and single track country lanes. Light is my friend.

Light is a friend to us all, which is why I fully advocate cyclists using good quality, bright lights that draw attention without causing an unpleasant distraction.

I don't have to ride country lanes so have never experienced the need for lights to illuminate my way rather than being used purely to highlight my presence, but I can totally get why they might be needed. In an urban environment, however, such as the one I ride, I still think extremely bright lights have the potential to cause an unpleasant distraction if not used judiciously.

bails87 wrote:

for lights being bright.

The Hope District and Magichshine MJ818 are both under 85 lumens, those are 'exceptionally' bright. Around the same as a car brakelight. The previous brightest before they came out was the L&M 180 at 35 lumens, and that was a long way ahead of the rest. EDIT: Exposure flare is apparently 75 lumens, fits in there somewhere.

A car headlight is anywhere from 700 lumens to3500 lumens

I would definitely suggest car brake light brightness is way to extreme to have as a constant, flashing or strobing rear light. Car rear light brightness I have no problem with. The same goes for front lights. If your front bike light is as bright as a car's dipped headlight then that's great (providing it is directed appropriately). If it goes above that, however, then I think you ought to have a way to dip it when approaching oncoming traffic. It's what we expect of motor vehicles so I think it's only fair we expect it of ourselves.

bails87

. If your front bike light is as bright as a car's dipped headlight then that's great (providing it is directed appropriately). If it goes above that, however, then I think you ought to have a way to dip it when approaching oncoming traffic. It's what we expect of motor vehicles so I think it's only fair we expect it of ourselves.

I agree. And I do. I've got very bright front lights (used for illuminating forests when MTBing) and I always put them on low if there are cars/peds/bikes around. Most of my journey is done in solitude though, so thats when they go on high (when it's dark) as I need them to see. During the lighter months I use a smart 25 lux front light on flash.

As for rears, I suppose it depends on how they vanish amongst a mass of car brake/head/rearlights. It's all well and good sitting a few feet behind and thinking "ooo, that's bright", but when you're 20 metres away, concentrating on the bus that's trying to turn in, with the blue lights of an ambulance coming up behind you, and that idiot with his man beams on coming the other way.....all of a sudden, 3 piddly LEDs aren't quite so bright.

Kieran_Burns

My name is Kieran and I have really bright lights.



J_T I suggest you take the opportunity to cycle down an unlit country lane at night with your present lights. When you get a mile down the road and realise you can't see a damn' thing and it's bleeding terrifying, you'll get a real appreciation for bright lights I have on my bike.

You'll also really appreciate the bright rear lights as car take much longer and go far wider when overtaking. It really is much more relaxing cycling after dark with the uber-bright lights on. I'd also like to remind you that I do not have mine on flash as down unlit lanes they are HORRIBLE to look at (either on the bike or in a car)

jonny_trousers

Kieran_Burns wrote:

My name is Kieran and I have really bright lights.



J_T I suggest you take the opportunity to cycle down an unlit country lane at night with your present lights. When you get a mile down the road and realise you can't see a damn' thing and it's bleeding terrifying, you'll get a real appreciation for bright lights I have on my bike.

You'll also really appreciate the bright rear lights as car take much longer and go far wider when overtaking. It really is much more relaxing cycling after dark with the uber-bright lights on. I'd also like to remind you that I do not have mine on flash as down unlit lanes they are HORRIBLE to look at (either on the bike or in a car)

See my above post Keiran, I completely understand your choice of lights given your riding.

jonny_trousers

bails87 wrote:

As for rears, I suppose it depends on how they vanish amongst a mass of car brake/head/rearlights. It's all well and good sitting a few feet behind and thinking "ooo, that's bright", but when you're 20 metres away, concentrating on the bus that's trying to turn in, with the blue lights of an ambulance coming up behind you, and that idiot with his man beams on coming the other way.....all of a sudden, 3 piddly LEDs aren't quite so bright.

That's why I opt for strobing over killer brightness: to draw attention rather than to bludgeon my presence onto the irises of those around me.

All that said, I'm no expert and perhaps I'm the one being silly - I was using my Cateye Opticube and an additional flashing red light on the back of my fluorescent, reflective jacket when that policewoman decided to drive into me because she hadn't bothered to check if I was there. Perhaps I should have opted for the I'd-rather-be-slightly-annoying-and-alive... stance.

kieranb

Hi J_T, maybe it's just a SE London thing as that's where I commute, as you have pointed out my post was not about the merits of these lights in getting you noticed by traffic on dimly lit country roads with hardly any bikes. And it is a pet hate, just like butter being left in the jam, used teabags left lying around the sink rather than in the bin, people taking things too seriously on forums, etc.

UndercoverElephant

bails87 wrote:

As for lights being bright.

The Hope District and Magichshine MJ818 are both under 85 lumens, those are 'exceptionally' bright. Around the same as a car brakelight. The previous brightest before they came out was the L&M 180 at 35 lumens, and that was a long way ahead of the rest. EDIT: Exposure flare is apparently 75 lumens, fits in there somewhere.

A car headlight is anywhere from 700 lumens to3500 lumens

However, a car tail light is 32 lumens, roughly. Rising up to 40 when braking. It's surely better to compare apples with apples, right?

Car tail lights also have a much better designed lenses and reflectors so spread the light over a larger area, I think where even the brightest bike lights fall down is this. Even with twice the luminous intensity, they won't be visible from the same distance, as the light is a small point all firing in a single direction. I don't know what the solution is, though, as I don't want massive lights either.

I'm a big believer in being seen, but when I'm driving at night I can pretty much see most bike lights apart from the ones with low batteries from a loooong way off, even in poor weather.

As for the old, "cars have 3500 lumens, why can't I?" routine: They also point all of them at the road most of the time, I can only imagine how popular you would be driving with them un-dipped all the time.

sketchley

Some rear lights are bright. However if they are distracting you don't ride near them. Either pass them or stop count to 100 and carry on. Either way job done. It's a different case if riding late at night in large group like FNRTTC, where you are trying to stay together. However you also do not need to be seen in quite such a large group as 110 one led flashing rear lights let's people know you are there.