opinions on powerbreathe

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Comments

  • apreading
    apreading Posts: 4,535
    ShockedSoShocked wrote:
    apreading wrote:

    Thought I would give it a go because I found that when I tried exercising I couldnt really push my muscles hard because of either or both of my heart & lungs being the limiting factor.

    I used it for a month or maybe 6 weeks and found that it reduced the wheezing and out of breath problems and increased the effective capacity of my lungs. This is not an imagined placebo effect either - it really did.

    Like Alex pointed out in a previous post about the rowers though, could this have been due to simply doing exercise?

    No - because there was no change in my routine other than that - I wasnt doing alot of exercise at the time, mainly a weekly swim and cycling every other week, both of which I had been doing for a year or so before.
  • Alex_Simmons/RST
    Alex_Simmons/RST Posts: 4,161
    apreading wrote:
    I hesitate to post here because I can see two opposing sides getting inflamed,
    Nah, not really. I'm pretty calm.
    apreading wrote:
    Thought I would give it a go because I found that when I tried exercising I couldnt really push my muscles hard because of either or both of my heart & lungs being the limiting factor.

    I used it for a month or maybe 6 weeks and found that it reduced the wheezing and out of breath problems and increased the effective capacity of my lungs. This is not an imagined placebo effect either - it really did.
    I'm not disputing what you felt was your experience.

    Putting aside the fact that your experience is anecdotal, and that personal experience is something readily tinged with confirmation bias, I think it is totally plausible for someone with pulmonary problems to benefit from doing increased pulmonary work.
    RST Sport : Coaching - Training Plans - Powermeters -- My blog -- AeroCoach Australia
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Apreading did you get any faster though ?
  • chrisbrett2k
    chrisbrett2k Posts: 7
    Ouch. Ok I can see that I've rattled the cage a bit. Clearly I am not achieving a great deal here. The basic point was that I have had some reasonable success at a sport and myself and several other fairly intelligent, well educated guys had a very positive experience using powerBreathe.

    My perspective is just the counter view to the argument that powerBreathe is absolutely useless and just a gimmick that seems to be well entrenched here. My view was based from personal experience in a successful trial. No body had any bias on that trial and they have at various times rejected other products where they were not perceived to add any value. I think the key problem is that there is a huge assumption that I am a salesman and selling this product. Talk about using ad hominem to get your point across.
    No, some of us are a tougher sell. And you are not a great salesman

    If I were a salesman and getting paid to do this I would find the numerous papers that disprove most of your points and post them but I really don't think it would have any impact and I don't have the time. Even if I could provide absolute, categorical proof that powerBreathe guarantees massive improvements that could not be achieved any other way I doubt that you would accept it.

    I would dig up the training diary from 99/00 and go through all of the accounts of a significant reduction in perceived exertion and leg lactate burn and the almost complete removal of any "rowers throat/lung" in 2K trials. These factors all returned at the end of the season after the trial finished even though training was continued.

    The reason why I put up a bit of effort to defend my claims was because I do like to stand up when claims are dismissed mainly through making myriads of assumptions. It is clear that your views are firmly entrenched and that's where you intend to keep them regardless of the evidence. I'm ok with that now that I know what the situation is. I think that it is a little odd however to hold such a superior stance when you have not been involved with a trial of the device and I and many others have.

    I sincerely apologise if I have caused any offence and I wish you all well in your cycling endeavours. My next post will probably be about advice for purchasing some decent road wheels for 124 Kg ( I was 102 Kgs last year!) ex heavyweight rower on the road back to fitness who wants to build some cycling back into his training regime.
  • chrisbrett2k
    chrisbrett2k Posts: 7
    Where have I not shown respect for rowing? And what would that have to do with an assessment of evidence to support claims of performance enhancement in any case. Again you are resorting to logical fallacy.

    I did not actually mean to imply that you did not respect rowing. There are many different ways to interpret a post. I think that you are viewing things from quite an extreme, confrontational, perspective. I genuinely apologise if that's how you took it.

    Look after reading your very aggressive responses I think we can calm things down a bit by clarifying the debate a little. I made what were I hope clearly anecdotal points regarding my experience with powerBreathe. You have read my post with the view that I have submitted an academic paper and that I am directly selling the product. I am not sure why you took this stance or why you have so aggressively attacked everything that I have said. If you just genuinely don't believe what I have said and are convince my post is that of a salesman then it is bound to be misinterpreted and the dialogue will inevitably become pointless. If you honestly think that you have responded to my input with a balanced assessment of what I have posted then fair enough but from my perspective you are not logically responding to my points either. We will clearly have to agree to disagree as for some reason we seem to be talking different languages in terms of logic.

    I respect your opinions and it is up to you to determine if any of my statements have any worth at all in this thread and if they warrant such an outright dismissive review. Once again no offence was intended.
  • chrisbrett2k
    chrisbrett2k Posts: 7
    apreading wrote:
    I hesitate to post here because I can see two opposing sides getting inflamed,

    Nah, not really. I'm pretty calm.

    ;0)
  • Scrumple
    Scrumple Posts: 2,665
    yawn

    HarryHill_fight.jpg
  • Alex_Simmons/RST
    Alex_Simmons/RST Posts: 4,161
    chrisbrett2k wrote:
    If I were a salesman and getting paid to do this I would find the numerous papers that disprove most of your points and post them but I really don't think it would have any impact and I don't have the time. Even if I could provide absolute, categorical proof that powerBreathe guarantees massive improvements that could not be achieved any other way I doubt that you would accept it.
    If the body of evidence supports something, then I'm all ears.

    I've had my mind changed on things in the past where evidence has shown long held beliefs to be fallacious.

    Is it that hard to post links to the evidence? They should all be available via PubMed and similar.
    chrisbrett2k wrote:
    It is clear that your views are firmly entrenched and that's where you intend to keep them regardless of the evidence.
    You keep telling us about this evidence. But never supply any.

    OK, well here's a few links with both negative and positive conclusions with respect to performance (on balance equivocal), although as always it makes sense to examine the data and methodology closely, than rely on the conclusions in abstracts:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10912887
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11421512
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11422888
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11504589
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12131262
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12165887
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12166881
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1405573
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15322855
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17874123
    chrisbrett2k wrote:
    I sincerely apologise if I have caused any offence and I wish you all well in your cycling endeavours.
    You haven't. And thanks.
    chrisbrett2k wrote:
    My next post will probably be about advice for purchasing some decent road wheels for 124 Kg ( I was 102 Kgs last year!) ex heavyweight rower on the road back to fitness who wants to build some cycling back into his training regime.
    lol.
    Velocity Deep V rim with 32 or 36 spokes from a really good wheelbuilder.
    RST Sport : Coaching - Training Plans - Powermeters -- My blog -- AeroCoach Australia
  • Alex_Simmons/RST
    Alex_Simmons/RST Posts: 4,161
    There's a limit on number of url links, so here are more:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18308881
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18560878
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18603575
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18641709
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18974711
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18974712
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19780375
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19841931
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20351576
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21347970
    RST Sport : Coaching - Training Plans - Powermeters -- My blog -- AeroCoach Australia
  • Alex_Simmons/RST
    Alex_Simmons/RST Posts: 4,161
    and more:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21988265
    http://www.springerlink.com/content/9031370152040277/
    http://www.springerlink.com/content/l9085718p7045216/
    http://www.springerlink.com/content/l9085718p7045216/
    https://www.thieme-connect.com/ejournal ... 004-815827
    http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Abstr ... _in.8.aspx
    http://ptjournal.apta.org/content/86/3/345.full
    RST Sport : Coaching - Training Plans - Powermeters -- My blog -- AeroCoach Australia
  • Alex_Simmons/RST
    Alex_Simmons/RST Posts: 4,161
    chrisbrett2k wrote:
    Where have I not shown respect for rowing? And what would that have to do with an assessment of evidence to support claims of performance enhancement in any case. Again you are resorting to logical fallacy.

    I did not actually mean to imply that you did not respect rowing. There are many different ways to interpret a post. I think that you are viewing things from quite an extreme, confrontational, perspective. I genuinely apologise if that's how you took it.

    Look after reading your very aggressive responses I think we can calm things down a bit by clarifying the debate a little. I made what were I hope clearly anecdotal points regarding my experience with powerBreathe. You have read my post with the view that I have submitted an academic paper and that I am directly selling the product. I am not sure why you took this stance or why you have so aggressively attacked everything that I have said. If you just genuinely don't believe what I have said and are convince my post is that of a salesman then it is bound to be misinterpreted and the dialogue will inevitably become pointless. If you honestly think that you have responded to my input with a balanced assessment of what I have posted then fair enough but from my perspective you are not logically responding to my points either. We will clearly have to agree to disagree as for some reason we seem to be talking different languages in terms of logic.

    I respect your opinions and it is up to you to determine if any of my statements have any worth at all in this thread and if they warrant such an outright dismissive review. Once again no offence was intended.
    I'm OK for anecdotal reports to be provided, but when claims are made about the efficacy of a product based on anecdotal report and celebrity endorsement and "take it on faith" comments, with no supporting evidence, then those claims need to be submitted to greater scrutiny in my opinion.

    I don't see this as aggressive behaviour on my part but do apologise if it seems that way.
    RST Sport : Coaching - Training Plans - Powermeters -- My blog -- AeroCoach Australia
  • simon_e
    simon_e Posts: 1,707
    chrisbrett2k wrote:
    Ouch. Ok I can see that I've rattled the cage a bit. Clearly I am not achieving a great deal here.
    Wrong on the first one, right on the second. Your posts read as if it's you that is rattled.
    chrisbrett2k wrote:
    If I were a salesman and getting paid to do this I would find the numerous papers that disprove most of your points and post them but I really don't think it would have any impact and I don't have the time.
    Please do! Evidence will always trump anecdote. So far all we have is your opinion, and since this is the internet and I don't know you from Adam that doesn't mean anything. I'm sceptical, not blindly dismissive. So far you've had time to write several extensive posts but not provide any evidence.
    chrisbrett2k wrote:
    The reason why I put up a bit of effort to defend my claims was because I do like to stand up when claims are dismissed mainly through making myriads of assumptions. It is clear that your views are firmly entrenched and that's where you intend to keep them regardless of the evidence.
    I'd say that is exactly where you are coming from - you don't like your views being challenged. None of us do, if we're honest. If you want to endorse this product and say "This thing works for me" that's fine. If it has genuinely helped your rowing then I'm 100% happy about that. But it won't persuade me to buy one. I'm not being "superior" (you obviously don't know me!), it's just that I simply won't believe the claims that easily. My only 'assumption' is that some bloke's opinion is not going to persuade me this thing works.

    As for wheels, I too would suggest a pair of handbuilt wheels. The following have been frequently recommended on this forum:
    http://www.harryrowland.info/
    http://www.stradawheels.co.uk/ (the owner posts on these forums)
    http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/
    That's not scientific evidence, mind you, merely opinion :wink:
    Aspire not to have more, but to be more.
  • chrisbrett2k
    chrisbrett2k Posts: 7
    So far you've had time to write several extensive posts but not provide any evidence.

    It appears that you have a less time intensive job than me.

    I have to say that I appreciate the last few comments as things seem to have calmed down a great deal from the earlier exchanges. I have seen similar posts on the C2 site when a new poster joins and I understand how and why it can happen but I have never been on the receiving end myself.

    Thanks also for the supportive PMs from those of you who contacted me.

    Thanks Alex for the wheel recommendations I will check out some prices.
  • chrisbrett2k
    chrisbrett2k Posts: 7
    Simon E

    Thanks also for wheel recommendations. It looks like I have some comparisons to make.

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