Police ask for proof of bike ownership in Preston

bails87

re body language/behaviour: If Road Wars is anything to go buy then anyone who says "I ent even done nuffin" should be arrested immediately

alfablue

I would like the police to stop those that they suspect of riding stolen bikes; I would particularly like them to stop people riding bikes they have stolen from me! I would not like to be stopped myself, however I guess if I want the former then I might have to accept the latter on some rare occasion.

Whilst it may not be directly a solution to proving ownership on the spot, I have registered all my bikes with pictures and frame numbers on http://www.immobilise.com/ (as well as many other valuables). It looks like this could be useful in getting them back if recovered, and for supporting insurance claims. Its free and seems worthwile to me.

andrewjoseph

As part of the ICE info on my mobile I've got the bike frame numbers and equipment (just in case bike pinched when touring). Not sure how this would prove it was my bike though, as I could have put that info on after stealing bike.

Perhaps I should keep the emails to Justin Burls?

oodboo

Did anyone actually read the artcle?

Police officers are of course not stopping every cyclist out riding their bike. People are only stopped from riding their bikes if an officer believes that the bike could be stolen, Lancashire Police told us. For instance, a man who is riding a woman’s bike or a child’s bike will be stopped as that instantly rouses suspicion.

Unless you lot ride round on ladies bikes all the time then you've got nothing to worry about.

I think this is a good thing and should be standard practice across the country. I wouldn't have a problem with being stopped but as I ride mens bikes and (for want of a better term) look the part, then I probably wouldn't be stopped.

cee

Kieran_Burns wrote:

cee wrote:

I am pretty sure that most people on here could detail every last scratch, dent and ding on their bikes....and how and where they got there.

Yes, I could; but there is absolutely no reason why I should

See....I think that if the police have reports of a bunch of high end bikes being stolen, and you happen to ride by on such a bike looking well shady....then they absolutely should have a chat with you....if you can't convince them that the bike is all above board....then they absolutely should take it further.

I thought thats generally how the police do their job?

rick_chasey

In the pursuit of crime, it's easy to forget what the fundamental purpose of police are.

Police are in theory, there to protect the rights of citizens who abide by the rules, right?

That's the main aim.

andrewjoseph

oodboo wrote:

..

Unless you lot ride round on ladies bikes all the time then you've got nothing to worry about.

I think this is a good thing and should be standard practice across the country. I wouldn't have a problem with being stopped but as I ride mens bikes and (for want of a better term) look the part, then I probably wouldn't be stopped.

I too think police cracking down on 'bike theft' is a good thing, but this sound like cracking down on 'bike riders'.

I frequently have to test and diagnose my wife's bike/s with spd pedals around the streets near my home, whilst wearing jeans and T shirts and sandals/trainers, (though they are usually cycle related T shirts).

What would the response be if I could not prove anything at the time? Just follow me home and I'll show you!

If you have to prove, on the spot, your ownership, this would cause problems.

What about recompense for having your bikes taken from you because you didn't have required proof?

I would be very annoyed if they didn't believe me and would possibly resist them taking the bikes away from me, after all, I know they are mine!

rick_chasey

andrewjoseph wrote:

oodboo wrote:

..

Unless you lot ride round on ladies bikes all the time then you've got nothing to worry about.

I think this is a good thing and should be standard practice across the country. I wouldn't have a problem with being stopped but as I ride mens bikes and (for want of a better term) look the part, then I probably wouldn't be stopped.

I too think police cracking down on 'bike theft' is a good thing, but this sound like cracking down on 'bike riders'.

I frequently have to test and diagnose my wife's bike/s with spd pedals around the streets near my home, whilst wearing jeans and T shirts and sandals/trainers, (though they are usually cycle related T shirts).

What would the response be if I could not prove anything at the time? Just follow me home and I'll show you!

If you have to prove, on the spot, your ownership, this would cause problems.

What about recompense for having your bikes taken from you because you didn't have required proof?

I would be very annoyed if they didn't believe me and would possibly resist them taking the bikes away from me, after all, I know they are mine!

Pretty sure police can't seize stuff without a warrant, right?

oodboo

andrewjoseph wrote:

I would be very annoyed if they didn't believe me and would possibly resist them taking the bikes away from me, after all, I know they are mine!

I think this would come down to your behaviour in the situation. If stopped I can't see it going as:
PC - Oi, that's not your bike, give it 'ere or I'll nick yer
You - Hadaway an shite man course it's mine, anyway, you'll ave to catch me first ya fat pig

Probabaly more like a resonable conversation between two adults where you would explain you've just fitted a new thing-a-ma-blingy and just testing it works properly for the missus as you don't want it to fall off while she's riding. Point at shiney new bit and produce tool for adjusting etc. In which case I can't really see why the police would have a reason to be overly suspisious enough to take things further.

rick_chasey

oodboo wrote:

andrewjoseph wrote:

I would be very annoyed if they didn't believe me and would possibly resist them taking the bikes away from me, after all, I know they are mine!

I think this would come down to your behaviour in the situation. If stopped I can't see it going as:
PC - Oi, that's not your bike, give it 'ere or I'll nick yer
You - Hadaway an shite man course it's mine, anyway, you'll ave to catch me first ya fat pig

Probabaly more like a resonable conversation between two adults where you would explain you've just fitted a new thing-a-ma-blingy and just testing it works properly for the missus as you don't want it to fall off while she's riding. Point at shiney new bit and produce tool for adjusting etc. In which case I can't really see why the police would have a reason to be overly suspisious enough to take things further.

Ah, the advantages of an Eton education. You can steal bikes at leisure. :roll:

oodboo

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ah, the advantages of an Eton education. You can steal bikes at leisure. :roll:

You can do pretty much anything at your leisure, daddy will take care of the consequences...

andrewjoseph

From some of the info supplied in previous posts, it seems that they can 'confiscate' if they don't believe you, until you provide proof, possibly down at the station.

So I don't think they will have warrants, and the onus of proof is on you. Now it maybe that they will accept my word, or follow me home, but what if they don't?

It is a police officer who may not believe you, taking away your property until you can prove it is yours.

Sometimes I'm just riding our bikes just to see what the issue is and have no tools on me.

Thieving scum don't generally care too much about the risk. The people with most to lose are the owners with no immediate proof, who may have a long journey after having their bike confiscated, then another journey with whatever documents/proof they have to get back their bike.

If I'm stopped when driving for some reason, I have to produce my documents at a station within three days, they don't take my car there and then, why should they take my bike?

rick_chasey

oodboo wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ah, the advantages of an Eton education. You can steal bikes at leisure. :roll:

You can do pretty much anything at your leisure, daddy will take care of the consequences...

Judging from the chap who's sitting in front of me, that seems unlikely.

bails87

Wait....so scumbag steals bike. looks 'suspicious'. gets stopped. protests innocence. police don't believe him and take bike. "you can bring proof and recover it at the station sir". scumbag decides not to go to police station so steals a new bike. looks 'suspicious'. gets stopped. protests innocence......

Torvid

I think the main thing everyone seems to be overlooking is just how are they planning on stopping you?

Stinger deployed across the cycle path? Leap out from behind a bush and knock you to the ground?

rick_chasey

Torvid wrote:

I think the main thing everyone seems to be overlooking is just how are they planning on stopping you?

Stinger deployed across the cycle path? Leap out from behind a bush and knock you to the ground?

Police car & flashing lights?

andrewjoseph

From the site linked to in the first post:

Patrick Jackson-Smith October 12, 2011 at 10:38 am
The actual fact is that the police must have reasonable grounds under section 1 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act to stop you in the first place. Those grounds would have to be related to the suspicion that the bike is stolen and there is no other reason other than a right to stop a cyclist to test brakes or check lighting etc or if you were cycling erratically and so on. The notion that you should be able to prove ownership on the spot is nonsense unless the officer has suspicion that the bike is stolen and he would have to justify this to the cyclist first. He would also have to tell you who he is, why he is detaining you, the grounds for his suspicion, what he is looking for, his ID, and that you are entitled to a copy of the search record. Unless he can do all these things then you are perfectly at liberty to excuse yourself and carry on about your business. Remember the police must follow the law, they are not above it.

So it seems to me that if you don't let the police take the bike, they will have to arrest you too, on the spot.

Torvid

Rick Chasey wrote:

Torvid wrote:

I think the main thing everyone seems to be overlooking is just how are they planning on stopping you?

Stinger deployed across the cycle path? Leap out from behind a bush and knock you to the ground?

Police car & flashing lights?

Really would deter anyone up to no good (as they would more than likely be on the pavement) so if you stop you shouldn't have been stopped and if you run well your back to square 1.

richred_uk

Andrew N wrote:

richred_uk wrote:

One thing that doesn't seem to have been mentioned is that this is happening in Preston, a city that just had a spate of bike thefts with violence - so I suspect it's a short term response to a particular local problem.

http://road.cc/content/news/45732-three-violent-thefts-bikes-preston-many-hours-police-say-incidents-not-linked

My understanding from the discussion I had with Lancashire Police was that they were stopping cyclists in particular areas of Preston - Fulwood and surrounding areas was mentioned

Fulwood is reasonably close to Deepdale where most of the robberies took place, so that would make me suspect that this is a response to them rather than a blanket "nick cyclists"/ "nick cycle thiefs" project.

sketchley

richred_uk wrote:

Andrew N wrote:

richred_uk wrote:

One thing that doesn't seem to have been mentioned is that this is happening in Preston, a city that just had a spate of bike thefts with violence - so I suspect it's a short term response to a particular local problem.

http://road.cc/content/news/45732-three-violent-thefts-bikes-preston-many-hours-police-say-incidents-not-linked

My understanding from the discussion I had with Lancashire Police was that they were stopping cyclists in particular areas of Preston - Fulwood and surrounding areas was mentioned

Fulwood is reasonably close to Deepdale where most of the robberies took place, so that would make me suspect that this is a response to them rather than a blanket "nick cyclists"/ "nick cycle thiefs" project.

That makes a bit more sense. Bikes of particular make / model reported stolen in an area, someone seen riding a bike matching description in that area = Reasonable ground to suspect handling stolen goods.