I pulled out on a cyclist yesterday.......

clarkey cat

how do I avoid pulling out on invisible traffic

you don't bro. this is the path we've chosen. roll the dice and go with god.

Pufftmw

The OP question is irrelevant because whatever the other guy was was decked out in & showing in the way of lights, the OP was at fault for not taking enough time to make sufficient visual checks that his route was clear of potential hazard before pulling out of a junction into the path of the cyclist.

notsoblue

Rolf F wrote:

Funny how people get holier than thou so quickly. Eg I name you Notsoblue ! - for deliberately choosing to ignore the key point was that the visibility was low and the cyclist HAD NO LIGHTS (i.e ready the bloody original post ). Even if it could be argued that the natural light was bright enough to ride without lights, the headlights of all the cars plus the rain reduced visibility substantially.

Fair enough. From the sounds of it he was cycling recklessly. I just think its a little odd that you felt you needed to mention the lack of hi-viz and a helmet to pile on contributory negligence :? Isn't just stating that he was cycling badly enough? It seemed like at the end you were making a general point about people who don't always dress up like safety clowns to use their bikes

For the record, I don't think there was really anything you could have done to prevent that situation.

rolf_f

Pufftmw wrote:

The OP question is irrelevant because whatever the other guy was was decked out in & showing in the way of lights, the OP was at fault for not taking enough time to make sufficient visual checks that his route was clear of potential hazard before pulling out of a junction into the path of the cyclist.

You don't know this because you weren't there. I checked very carefully - he didn't become visible until he was almost on me. The only way as I see it that I could have mitigated the situation was to have stayed there until the rain stopped. By your logic it doesn't matter how poor the visibility is, if you get pulled out on it is the other persons fault.

notsoblue wrote:

Fair enough. From the sounds of it he was cycling recklessly. I just think its a little odd that you felt you needed to mention the lack of hi-viz and a helmet to pile on contributory negligence :? Isn't just stating that he was cycling badly enough? It seemed like at the end you were making a general point about people who don't always dress up like safety clowns to use their bikes

Well, Il Principe probably is fair to accuse me of trolling re the lid point but I reckon the high viz is fair enough. As it happens, yesterday I wasn't in high vis myself but had the other cyclist been in yellow, he would certainly have been less invisible. One thing I have done is gone for the high vis today (similar conditions this morning) as, if nothing else, it would at least help the other cyclist see me earlier.

notsoblue

Rolf F wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

Fair enough. From the sounds of it he was cycling recklessly. I just think its a little odd that you felt you needed to mention the lack of hi-viz and a helmet to pile on contributory negligence :? Isn't just stating that he was cycling badly enough? It seemed like at the end you were making a general point about people who don't always dress up like safety clowns to use their bikes

Well, Il Principe probably is fair to accuse me of trolling re the lid point but I reckon the high viz is fair enough. As it happens, yesterday I wasn't in high vis myself but had the other cyclist been in yellow, he would certainly have been less invisible. One thing I have done is gone for the high vis today (similar conditions this morning) as, if nothing else, it would at least help the other cyclist see me earlier.

Well it would have ameliorated some of the risk he was exposing himself to by riding like a bit of a prat... Cyclists who ride responsibly should be able to use their bikes wearing what they want (helmet or no, hi-viz or no) without being accused of being fit for a darwin award. Its a slippery slope towards contributory negligence for anyone who rides a bike on the open road imo.

veronese68

notsoblue wrote:

Well it would have ameliorated some of the risk he was exposing himself to by riding like a bit of a prat... Cyclists who ride responsibly should be able to use their bikes wearing what they want (helmet or no, hi-viz or no) without being accused of being fit for a darwin award. Its a slippery slope towards contributory negligence for anyone who rides a bike on the open road imo.

Unfortunately things are heading that way already. I think a lack of helmet has already been used as contributory negligence in a head injury case. I don't use lights for fear of contributory negligence, I use them to minimise my chances of being smeared across a car bonnet. As I'm sure do most of us.
I completely agree we should be able to ride wearing whatever we want to. But we should be aware of our own safety. Having said that I don't wear council worker style hi-viz, but I did choose a red waterproof with reflective bits.
This isn't meant to sound argumentative. I'm agreeing with you after my earlier overreaction.

DonDaddyD

The OP didn't look, he should have looked.

Doesn't matter what the cyclist was wearing. Though a light (flashing light and/or visible clothing) might have helped drawn attention to his presence.

But the OP should have looked.

Has something similar happened to me, absolutely. Driving when cyclist are near is fecking stressful.

rolf_f

DonDaddyD wrote:

The OP didn't look, he should have looked.

Doesn't matter what the cyclist was wearing. Though a light (flashing light and/or visible clothing) might have helped drawn attention to his presence.

But the OP should have looked.

Has something similar happened to me, absolutely. Driving when cyclist are near is fecking stressful.

You'd get cross if I did this to you. I looked. I looked. How many times do I have to say that I looked? And carefully. Rather more carefully than you have read the thread as I have made clear that I was riding a bicycle rather than driving (not that I can see anyway that that changes anything - the cyclist was still invisible). As I said to Puftmw, I looked. Unless you were there, how do you know if I looked or not? Why would you even say this?

A light would not have just helped draw attention to his presence, it would have made it visible. TBH, the only lesson I see here is that it isn't good enough to have lights, they need to be lights strong enough to stand out when next to a car as I doubt the average cheap commuting light would be enough in these circumstances.

Interesting really. I post a thread where I am accidentally ambiguous over my mode of transport. People think I am in a car and immediately therefore I am at fault by definition. Post a thread suggesting that it is a good idea to cycle in poor visibility with no lights and in dark clothing and immediately you will get (rightly) shouted down. Bikes = good, cars = bad. Interesting and a bit depressing. No wonder drivers hate us!

DonDaddyD

Rolf F wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

The OP didn't look, he should have looked.

Doesn't matter what the cyclist was wearing. Though a light (flashing light and/or visible clothing) might have helped drawn attention to his presence.

But the OP should have looked.

Has something similar happened to me, absolutely. Driving when cyclist are near is fecking stressful.

You'd get cross if I did this to you. I looked. I looked. How many times do I have to say that I looked? And carefully. Rather more carefully than you have read the thread as I have made clear that I was riding a bicycle rather than driving (not that I can see anyway that that changes anything - the cyclist was still invisible). As I said to Puftmw, I looked. Unless you were there, how do you know if I looked or not? Why would you even say this?

A light would not have just helped draw attention to his presence, it would have made it visible. TBH, the only lesson I see here is that it isn't good enough to have lights, they need to be lights strong enough to stand out when next to a car as I doubt the average cheap commuting light would be enough in these circumstances.

My apologies.

:shock:

"Wow! Did DDD not lose his temper and actually... urgh... apologise!!? I'm scared to go outside....

Kieran_Burns

I had a similar kind of thing years back.

Night time, I'm on the way home from the girlfriends
Come to a roundabout, slow down, look, look again (no, really)
Nothing there
Start to pull out.
Suddenly notice movement and slam the anchors on
Ninja cyclist is stopped directly in front of me hurling abuse.

Relevant facts:

Pitch black piece of road
Cyclist all in black - I mean COMPLETELY in black
Had a FORK mounted halogen light (see what I mean about years back) on the offside of the fork
Grass island triangle on my right had not been cut for some time and the grass was higher than his light (picture of junction here... there were no lights back then.

He's hurling abuse at me (as I say) and I got out to explain that he was completely invisible, and was in fact very lucky I saw him at all.

He's now pointing to his light (which is on, but you know these old halogen ones... a bit crap really) saying I should see it (well, shouting more like)
I explain that it cannot be seen because of:
a) the grass
b) his bike
and him wearing all black means he's completely reliant on a light no one can actually see

He actually paused at this point, looked at the grass, then his light and it dawned on him I was right.

He then said "Thanks for stopping" got on the bike, and cycled off.

Point being - he was cycling perfectly legally, but not safely; and it was only luck and my reactions that saved him a trip in an ambulance (if he was lucky.... it's an NSL stretch of road there and when it's 'empty' you can hit that roundabout at silly speeds)

DonDaddyD

Personally I think lights (flashing lights) help draw attention to said flashing light. It's flashing which is unlike most other lights I see on my commute and I liken it to a car behind me flashing me or going over a speed up and flashing momentarily brighter in my mirrors I'm compelled to look as it's not the norm.

I could however be wrong. I wasn't in the situation. But I like flashing lights.

rick_chasey

Anyone else snigger at the title?

rolf_f

DonDaddyD wrote:

My apologies.

:shock:

"Wow! Did DDD not lose his temper and actually... urgh... apologise!!? I'm scared to go outside....

Lol!! I'm printing this one out and putting it on the fridge!

As a further attempt to repair my tattered reputation on this forum I'll write the post from the other cyclists viewpoint.

Ninjacyclist wrote:

I was riding across a roundabout early yesterday morning in the rain, in poor visibility, wearing dark clothing and without any lighting of any sort unlike all the cars which had their headlights on when a cyclist pulled out on me. Would I have been right to shoot him?

clarkey cat

@ Ninjacyclist

Yes, you would have been entirely within your rights and indeed it would have been your moral obligation to shoot the other cyclist in the face.

Torvid

As a ninja you should be using throwing stars the are quieter and will draw even less attention to yourself.

veronese68

I think the best lights to avoid this sort of thing are the ones that are permanently on with a brighter flash as well. I think Exposure ight do that, although I have a rather cheaper one that does this. Branded as Beone or something, though it was made by Smart and has a better flash than their own brand ones.

sketchley

You saw a Ninja. Not a very good one then.....