I pulled out on a cyclist yesterday.......

rolf_f

Yesterday morning I'm waiting at a roundabout to turn right. It is 10 past 8, raining, the road is wet and the visiblity not great and every car has headlights on. I'm in between two lanes of cars and there aren't that many gaps in the traffic.

So, I see a car at the junction to the right and pull out knowing that the car to my right will be too slow to make use of that gap. All of a sudden I see a bike hurtling towards me. I jam the brakes on expecting the rider to cut infront but instead he ends up in a lurid skid and goes behind me. I mumble a pointless sorry and move on before I become an obstruction. As I move off, I glance over my shoulder to see the other cyclist carrying on his way seemingly entirely unfazed.

Now the thing is, as I said, I did mumble my apology but, in my defence, he didn't have any lights, he was wearing dark blue (I'll leave you to guess whether or not he had a lid on), he had come from a filter off lane undertaking a car so as he approached me he had been next to a car with its headlights on.

Given the way he handled the situation, I'm assuming that he gets people pulling out on him several times a day. Has anyone any tips on how to avoid cyclists running in stealth mode?

dhope

Rolf F wrote:

Given the way he handled the situation, I'm assuming that he gets people pulling out on him several times a day. Has anyone any tips on how to avoid cyclists running in stealth mode?

Be more careful?
If they're in stealth mode then can't really offer any other advice. You could chase him down like a madman and then offer helpful advice on lights, hi viz and road positioning. Helmet or not doesn't make a blind bit of difference in this story though

Mr Plum

Rolf F wrote:

Has anyone any tips on how to avoid cyclists running in stealth mode?

Use 'The Force'. I've also heard that 'Spidey Sense' can be as good.

Mr Plum

dhope wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Given the way he handled the situation, I'm assuming that he gets people pulling out on him several times a day. Has anyone any tips on how to avoid cyclists running in stealth mode?

Be more careful?
If they're in stealth mode then can't really offer any other advice. You could chase him down like a madman and then offer helpful advice on lights, hi viz and road positioning. Helmet or not doesn't make a blind bit of difference in this story though

It may have done had it been bright yellow and of an 'AA' variety :P

il_principe

Rolf F wrote:

(I'll leave you to guess whether or not he had a lid on)

Fail to see the relevance.

cookdn

Il Principe wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

(I'll leave you to guess whether or not he had a lid on)

Fail to see the relevance.

He was probably wearing a pair of these:



Most cyclists I see with a death-wish on the roads playing with the traffic are. Totally incompatible with a decent lid; cyclist/headphones, take your pick.

Clever Pun

hmm trolling or ignorance?

il_principe

You'd hate me then - i ride with no lid and use earphones. EVIL!!!

MonkeyMonster

Il Principe wrote:

You'd hate me then - i'm EVIL!!!

to be fair that is actually accurate but for different reasons

notsoblue

cookdn wrote:

Most cyclists I see with a death-wish on the roads playing with the traffic are. Totally incompatible with a decent lid; cyclist/headphones, take your pick.

With all due respect, sod off

rolf_f

Oh you are all so predictable! I knew you'd fall for the lid comment.

It was just indictative of a lack of risk aversion in life. There is plenty of evidence on my routes of a tendency for people with lots of lights and high vis to wear helmets and those without lights and no high vis to not wear helmets. Whether or not helmets work or not is irrelevant; if you are at the level of knowledge where you don't think that lights are a useful safety measure, you probably won't have made a serious considered decision on the helmet issue. What is relevant is the fact that low visibility and no lid is a sort of uniform for the stealth cyclist.

Pru

If you were on a bike instead of driving, none of this would have happened.

bikes ftw q.e.d.

giantorangedale

Pru wrote:

If you were on a bike instead of driving, none of this would have happened.

bikes ftw q.e.d.

Looked over his shoulder at the other cyclist.He was on a bike.Numpty :roll:

Mr Plum

Pru wrote:

If you were on a bike instead of driving, none of this would have happened.

bikes ftw q.e.d.

edit - I read that he was in a car as well. Rereading makes this clearer...

notsoblue

Rolf F wrote:

It was just indictative of a lack of risk aversion in life.

Have you considered that perhaps your perception of risk is too high?

kieranb

well, down in London, 10 past 8 is bright enough, even when overcast, at the moment, so the cyclist you almost hit was not required to have lights, hi viz clothing nor helmet. So it was just a SMIDSY, happens all the time to drivers.

veronese68

You can't help people who won't help themselves. If you tried to tell him he'd probably have told you where to go. Next time it'll be a car or a truck and he'll be eligible for a Darwin Award.

il_principe

Rolf F wrote:

Oh you are all so predictable! I knew you'd fall for the lid comment.

So trolling FTW... :roll:

iPete

notsoblue wrote:

cookdn wrote:

Most cyclists I see with a death-wish on the roads playing with the traffic are. Totally incompatible with a decent lid; cyclist/headphones, take your pick.

With all due respect, sod off

What he said! Except he put it far less bluntly than I was going to

gilesjuk

A cyclist without a helmet is still better than another car on the road. More people die driving or walking than cycling anyway.

clarkey cat

So if a cyclist is in a car then they are still always in the right?

Pru

giantorangedale wrote:

Pru wrote:

If you were on a bike instead of driving, none of this would have happened.

bikes ftw q.e.d.

Looked over his shoulder at the other cyclist.He was on a bike.Numpty :roll:

oh... ya... embarrassing ~

...I still like bikes.

jedster

Did I read it right that you were waiting to enter a roundabout between two lanes?

Personally I wouldnt be doing that. I'm happy to filter between two lanes but I'd always pick one and take it when I got to the roundabout. It's not going to help seeing or being seen to be stuck between two lines of traffic.

Despite the fact that the bloke could (and would have been sensible to) have done more to make himself visible, you just scored a SMIDSY. In his shoes, I'd have given you an earful if you'd chased me down to advise me on lights etc. Not because you'd be wrong just because you would still have a mote in your eye IYKWIM.

Cheers,

J

notsoblue

Veronese68 wrote:

You can't help people who won't help themselves. If you tried to tell him he'd probably have told you where to go. Next time it'll be a car or a truck and he'll be eligible for a Darwin Award.

I still don't really understand what the cyclist did wrong here other than startle a driver, yet people are saying he deserves to be killed through his own apparent recklessness. Recklessness largely defined by the fact that he wasn't wearing a helmet or hi-viz? I must have missed something...

clarkey cat

Think Rolf was actually on a bike - however, I agree: "I pulled out on someone when they had right of way" becomes someone else's fault. Bit bizarre. Just say sorry, try not to do it again.

Clever Pun

Rolf F wrote:

Oh you are all so predictable! I knew you'd fall for the lid comment.

It was just indictative of a lack of risk aversion in life. There is plenty of evidence on my routes of a tendency for people with lots of lights and high vis to wear helmets and those without lights and no high vis to not wear helmets. Whether or not helmets work or not is irrelevant; if you are at the level of knowledge where you don't think that lights are a useful safety measure, you probably won't have made a serious considered decision on the helmet issue. What is relevant is the fact that low visibility and no lid is a sort of uniform for the stealth cyclist.

I think what's relevant is that you as a cyclist didn't see another inbetween the cars.

notsoblue

clarkey cat wrote:

Think Rolf was actually on a bike - however, I agree: "I pulled out on someone when they had right of way" becomes someone else's fault. Bit bizarre. Just say sorry, try not to do it again.

Its almost like he was rehearsing the defence he would have given if he had actually hit this cyclist and had to explain the situation to the police/insurance company. To be fair, I'd probably be having similar thoughts, but its still a bit of a strange thing to read on a cycle commuting thread.

mroli

Look you lot. Wear a helmet. Because it "may" save your life, if, erm, an antelope decides to headbutt you:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/1 ... 03905.html

Mind you, that's me being more careful in Richmond Park in the future....

veronese68

notsoblue wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

You can't help people who won't help themselves. If you tried to tell him he'd probably have told you where to go. Next time it'll be a car or a truck and he'll be eligible for a Darwin Award.

I still don't really understand what the cyclist did wrong here other than startle a driver, yet people are saying he deserves to be killed through his own apparent recklessness. Recklessness largely defined by the fact that he wasn't wearing a helmet or hi-viz? I must have missed something...

Sorry, that does sound a bit harsh on re-reading. It's just me showing my exasperation at ninja cyclists riding in the dark on major roads. There seems to be a particularly high concentration of them around here, Feltham, they are oblivious to anything around them. Hoods up, no lights, on the phone riding from the road to the pavement and back again without a backward glance.

rolf_f

notsoblue wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

It was just indictative of a lack of risk aversion in life.

Have you considered that perhaps you're perception of risk is too high?

Not my perception of risk aversion - I wasn't talking about mine. I wear a lid but accept that the evidence of their usefulness is currently more ambiguous than it might be. However, I would suggest that anyone who isn't aware of that lack of clarity would assume by default that it is safer to wear a helmet than not.

I think I have not made the circumstances clear enough.

The roundabout is one which really needs lights - it causes a slow queue of cars to develop at this time of year. I navigate to the middle of the two lanes and never have any problems getting on to the roundabout safely. Ideally you would take primary in one of the lanes but the traffic isn't moving enough to do that politely. What I do in this particular case allows me to get to the front and get out without affecting anyone else. You can choose to berate me over this but infact it has no bearing whatsoever on the incident. I was just providing unnecessary background detail for people to misinterpret!!

I did not pull out on anyone who was visible. I had plenty of time to get out of the way of the car coming from the right and the vehicle queuing on my right would have been too slow. So - I make this point clearly - I checked carefully for approaching traffic and moved out when it was clear.

I did not see the cyclist who came up from the left side of the approaching car via a lane that filtered left (ie from the way I had come). So, the question is again - how do I avoid pulling out on invisible traffic. I struggle to see how this can be interpreted as my fault!

Funny how people get holier than thou so quickly. Eg I name you Notsoblue ! - for deliberately choosing to ignore the key point was that the visibility was low and the cyclist HAD NO LIGHTS (i.e ready the bloody original post ). Even if it could be argued that the natural light was bright enough to ride without lights, the headlights of all the cars plus the rain reduced visibility substantially.

PS I humbly apologise for mentioning the lack of lid! Lets not go there any more!

And yes, I was riding - should have been more explicit about that but I assumed people would assume I was. And I'd have struggled to be between two lanes of cars if I was in a car myself!

Wallace1492

gilesjuk wrote:

A cyclist without a helmet is still better than another car on the road. More people die driving or walking than cycling anyway.

Because more people drive or walk,