Steve Jobs Dead

EKIMIKE

It's sad for anyone to die at the age of 56. So RIP Mr Jobs.

Seems like Steve Jobs was a visionary in bringing tech products to market, for the market (as opposed to geeks). But he was not alone. It seems easily forgotten.

Much of what Apple has produced demonstrates not innovation, in it's purest sense of creation, but the ability to take an idea (borrowed from someone else) and bring it to the market in functional, user-friendly form. In this respect Steve Jobs was clearly an excellent business man.

I feel uncomfortable with some of the tributes that appear to make him into something he wasn't. His loss less one for humanity, but for business. Some people appear to have this confused. I find it rather crass that people are holding vigils involving holding up their iPhone. I also feel that rather alot more is being accredited to Mr Jobs memory than is truely attributable. In terms of pure technology innovation and creation, the Apple brand is significantly insignificant. However no-one can deny their market approach has been revolutionary.

This man was not a messiah. Apple Store's are not churches. I just find it creepy and crass.

lucan

People I don't know die every day. I had never heard of him until yesterday. I've never owned any Apple products.

Tomorrow will be the same as yesterday for me.

:roll:

Redhog14

lifeform wrote:

Redhog14 wrote:

As for your comment re BMW - they are still at the forefront of technical innovation - their engines are cleaner and more powerful than competitors and when the next M5 comes out they will again set the benchmark. IMO BMW have diversified but not neccesarily sold out.

You've not had to life with a BMW for any length of time then?

Beg to differ- e46, e60, e39 x 2, e24(?) current e 46 auto estate is great apart from the "auto" bit which is shite and so I agree with on that, sourced from GM. M series cars are still the biz though.

Personally I think the great Irony of Apple is that they have now become so mainstream as opposed to the legendary "misfit" moniker they used to have. Don't own any Apple products and my life is not any the less for it. Sad indictment of todays money and possesions culture that more is eulogised about this guy than is done about the troubles in the world.

EKIMIKE

Just to echo my own crass sentiments... I'd take Bill Gates over Steve Jobs any day. Even if the guy had never made a single computer in his life, his philanthropic dedication alone is truly admirable.

If Steve Jobs did for Humanity what he's done for consumerism then we'd have a truly remarkable person.

verylonglegs

You'd think from some of the press coverage he was fabricating all the microchips, designing the pcb's, soldering it together and writing the software single-handedly.

Smokin Joe

iSad

Cleat Eastwood

EKIMIKE wrote:

Just to echo my own crass sentiments... I'd take Bill Gates over Steve Jobs any day. Even if the guy had never made a single computer in his life, his philanthropic dedication alone is truly admirable.

If Steve Jobs did for Humanity what he's done for consumerism then we'd have a truly remarkable person.

this is true re bill gates. how many millions did he get into programming in the 70/s 80s simply by trusting the people to look under the bonnet of a thingy.

lifeform

Redhog14 wrote:

Beg to differ- e46, e60, e39 x 2, e24(?) current e 46 auto estate is great apart from the "auto" bit which is shite and so I agree with on that, sourced from GM. M series cars are still the biz though.

Personally I think the great Irony of Apple is that they have now become so mainstream as opposed to the legendary "misfit" moniker they used to have. Don't own any Apple products and my life is not any the less for it. Sad indictment of todays money and possesions culture that more is eulogised about this guy than is done about the troubles in the world.

We'll agree to disagree, I think.

I own one Apple product; an 8Gb iPod Nano. (I won it). To be honest, it's a nice enough thing, but it's no better than anything else out there for the same money apart from the nice GUI. I am blessed with being unable to use iTunes (I run Linux at home), so thankfully I'm saved that tedium.

The iPad I am impressed by - not for what it is, but for the fact people feel the need to use it in such an extrovert manner. I spend a lot of time commuting by train, and I've noticed that users of iPads (and Apple laptops) in particular will make rather extravagant gestures when removing it from their bag. It's a Brand Rep's wet dream.

carl_p

verylonglegs wrote:

You'd think from some of the press coverage he was fabricating all the microchips, designing the pcb's, soldering it together and writing the software single-handedly.

Quite. But that's so often the case in business. The name behind the brand often gets all the credit when in reality much of it is down to the 'team' that delivers on his/her behalf.

Monty Dog

Having endured 20 years of crappy Microsoft product which continues to frustrate my daily toil at work, I'm glad to say that I've yet to have my ipad or macpro freeze on me since I converted earler this year. He managed to instill an incredible brand value and loyalty - he was probably a b@stard to word for, but no doubt a genius too in terms of his focus and vision.

The_Special_One

News coming out of California says that Steve Jobs wasn't happy with a few things about the new iphone. Unconfirmed reports state Jobs was heard saying " over my dead body are we calling it the 4GS "

Although Apple have already posted some deatils about Mr Jobs funeral. We are told it won't be a flash affair.

And on a happier note, news on the employment front. Samsung are recruiting 1000 new staff the day after Apple lose jobs.

EKIMIKE

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

this is true re bill gates. how many millions did he get into programming in the 70/s 80s simply by trusting the people to look under the bonnet of a thingy.

No doubt! No-one can deny the facts. But regarding the curious and commonplace claims that he 'changed the world' (no-one has explained to me how yet), answer me this; What more than successfully proliferate the market for consumer electronics did Steve Jobs do for 'the world'?

I'm aware it's not really the most sensitive time to ask such a question (or maybe it's too sensitive-a-time?), but really, I must be missing something here.

As far as i'm aware the greatest influence on the world from the consumer electronics industry has been the advent of mobile phone technology. It has done remarkable things ranging from disaster management to market/trade facilitation. And it's a phenomenon which transcends wealth. Just saying....

StageWinner

How Steve Jobs helped change the world...

Imagine if he had never been born.

Would there been a computing device in virtually every home in this country?
Would most people own an MP3 player? Laptop? Smartphone? Computer of any kind?
Would your operating system look and act the way it does? (Mac or PC)
Would you buy your music via download?
Would you be reading this post right now? (Because I posted it from a Mac!)
Would the internet be as big or accessible as it?
Would you have seen Toy Story (1, 2 or 3) or any other Pixar film?
Would the entertainment (film/tv) industry have progressed to the degree it has?
Would the advertising and marketing industry be the same? (The industry that kept Apple going through it's darkest days)


It's easy to say "I don't own any Apple products so Steve Jobs never affected my life". But if you use a computer today (and the mere fact you are reading this means you DO, then his work has somehow touched YOUR life and has changed the world around all of us.

It would be a much different world if we were all still working off soulless PCs running some variant of Microsoft Windows from 20 years ago. And if Microsoft and Apple weren't constantly trying to outdo each other - would we have seen such massive growth in the computing sector? Because competition brings out the best in people and forces them to do extraordinary things.


The list of questions above is just some off the top of my head. SO the guy didn't invent the cure for cancer (pardon the poor choice of words) - or bring about world peace - but in some way has contributed to the enrichment of all our lives. You can't say that about many people.

ddraver

StageWinner wrote:

Would you be reading this post right now? (Because I posted it from a Mac!)

Would we care?
Sorry, full toss that one!

bompington

One thing that interests me about the whole Apple/Jobs cult thing is that it has always been most prevalent among people involved in the media, creative and marketing industries, i.e. those who create illusions, promote fads, manipulate minds and above all, persuade us how to spend our money.
Some correlation between that and the huge success of Apple products, the "reality distortion field", and the adulation of Jobs as some messianic figure?

The answer to all StageWinner's questions, by the way, is of course "yes" - Apple has been just one of a host of competing companies that have helped develop all these things: certainly they have been innovative and have done a lot of things better than others, but to ascribe Steve Jobs with a long list of things none of which he invented is a bit much.

NB Apple computers run "some variant of" the UNIX operating system invented for the big mainframes of the 1950s

beverick

Would there been a computing device in virtually every home in this country?
Almost certainly the same number that there are now thanks INTEL (the world's largest manufacturer of silicon chips), AMD (the second) and the x86 chipset. Irrespective of the growth of 'i-devices' they remain a niche product. Remember that most electronic devices in your home are driven by microprocessor from your washing machine, DAB radios, cars, TVs as well as more complex white goods such as fridges and cookers etc.
Would most people own an MP3 player? Yes, but it would have Sony on the front. Laptop? yes. In fact the number would probably be unaffected. Smartphone? Yes, but it would have a brand such as BlackBerry, Samsung, Nokia, HTC or SonyEricsson on the front? Computer of any kind? Yes, see the comment above.
Would your operating system look and act the way it does? (Mac or PC) Almost certainly. GUI based user interfaces were developed by Xerox and Tandy. It’s just that Jobs/Raskin and Apple Mac jumped on the bandwagon a couple of years before Gates and Microsoft. You could argue that they did a better job technically but as Windows has outsold MAC OS by hundreds to one it’s hardly been successful.
Would you buy your music via download? Yes but from a free market where the price is set competitively rather than at an arbitrary 79p from a monopoly supplier.
Would you be reading this post right now? (Because I posted it from a Mac!) I may be more likely to be reading it from a MAC - remembering that SJ was sacked from Apple because of his mis-handling of the organisation at that time. (nb I wouldn’t be reading it anyway because you assume SJ didn’t exist.)
Would the internet be as big or accessible as it? We could ask Tim Berners-Lee for his opinion. I dare say he’d just laugh. Nb, the volume of internet “i-data” remains low compared to other traffic types – less than 1% of traffic for your average telco.
Would you have seen Toy Story (1, 2 or 3) or any other Pixar film? Almost certainly. It would just have had a Disney or ANO label.
Would the entertainment (film/tv) industry have progressed to the degree it has? Possibly not but who’s to say that the industry would have been any the worse for it?
Would the advertising and marketing industry be the same? (The industry that kept Apple going through it's darkest days) I can’t see how it would have been affected. The more important question is would it have helped people with the correct use of the apostrophe?
SJ has certainly been a major influence in how mobile devices have developed over the last few years but I don’t think you can say that the development path would have been substantially different given the number of players in the market. I think that history will eventually show us that Microsoft (as if we need to be told), google, facebook,HTML, URLs and the WWW, along with the internet and ‘broadband’ services have been far more influential.

Bob

gilesjuk

It's funny you mention Google and Facebook. Google jettisoned all of their Windows machines for Mac and Facebook's Zuckerberg paid tribute to Jobs.

Many creative people use Macs and therefore there's a lot of music, video and graphics around that wouldn't have existed in such quality. I've tried to use Windows for creative tasks and it's a lot more hassle and hassle kills creativity.

The WWW and the Web browser were developed on a NeXT workstation, this was the company that Steve Jobs founded when he left Apple. You can argue that the WWW owes its existence to Steve Jobs. While the web is likely to have appeared it may have been different or delayed if Tim Berners-Lee had been trying to program it in another language on a different OS. Objective C and the NeXT APIs are well known for being very nice to program for.

"Mike Sendall buys a NeXT cube for evaluation, and gives it to Tim [Berners-Lee]. Tim's prototype implementation on NeXTStep is made in the space of a few months, thanks to the qualities of the NeXTStep software development system."

StageWinner

I would suggest that while Mr Jobs didn't 'invent' any of the things I mentioned before - without him and Apple, things would have progressed very differently in the computing world.

We can play this game all day and say GUI existed before him and computers did also, etc - but anyone that neglects to see what sort of influence 'they' (Jobs and Apple) have had is being naive.

Apple products are possibly the most copied of any kind. Is it just a coincidence that most smartphones on the market try and copy not only the form function of the iPhone - but also the way they work and look (GUI)? The same goes for operating systems.

Apple made computing 'easy' for the masses and while more people own a PC than a MAC - it is Apple's influence (I think) that has made things like the internet grow as fast as it did).

Apple made the MP3 player something cool, easy to use and a device that people actually wanted to use. The fact that we don't say MP3 player any more but instead refer to devices of this class as iPods is an indication of Apple's influence).

The same goes for smartphones - sure they existed before - but people found them difficult to use (I know as I used the Palm for years). Blackberry is great for emails, but it's no iPhone

We'd all end up in the same place in the end though. Right?

MattC59

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

Can't they just switch him off and on again?

ACE !!!

bompington

StageWinner wrote:

Apple made the MP3 player something cool

This is the actual relevant bit

ddraver

StageWinner wrote:

We'd all end up in the same place in the end though. Right?

Agreed - the premise that one company or even one man has soley steered technological advancement for the last 20 years is absurd - You would nt call an iphone and iphone but something similar would have been created. The guy that had the idea would nt have worked for Apple is all...

From the little I know about what has driven the computer indsutry, most of it is due to gamers wanting a better graphics card, faster games, better sound, faster internet speeds that has driven the industry forward - Is it because of the advanced 3D reservoir modelling or seismic stuff i do, or the prety adverts on the escalators on the tube? No...it's supergeeks playing world of warcraft!

The talk that people are able to be creative BECAUSE they use a Mac (or whatever) is also rubbish. Flip it on it's head - I could go and buy a Mac tomorrow (nice Istore in leiden) but would that make me a more creative person? No!. My friends touring GB in bands and my cousin designing wallpapers (or something, I can never keep up with her) would still be creating music and art, they'd just record it in a slightly different way. I have Photoshop at home (let's not forget the role Adobe played in graphic design) - I still can't create anything as good as a proper pro photographer can

If Apple had nt existed, Windows may have been designed differently to make it better for the people who commonly use Macs, Something else could have been invented, Linux could have filled that gap, whatever.

Just as scientific discoveries are never actually the result of a single man (yeah there are some luminaries), or a massive breakthrough but a continual process of refining, building on and experimenting with ideas, the same would have applied in the technology industry...

In my case, the main reason i don't have a mac as my normal computer is that there is not one single oil industry (my area) software that runs on Macs...I have an htc phone becasue they sponsor Cav and an Ipod becasue i was bought one (has been replaced under warrenty on several occasions but that's not the point)

thegreatdivide

StageWinner wrote:

The fact that we don't say MP3 player any more but instead refer to devices of this class as iPods is an indication of Apple's influence

I still call it my personal stereo :oops:

APIII

thegreatdivide wrote:

StageWinner wrote:

The fact that we don't say MP3 player any more but instead refer to devices of this class as iPods is an indication of Apple's influence

I still call it my personal stereo :oops:

You idiot, it's a walkman.

Richard_D

I sad to hear his passing but I wish he was not so Idolised as he was one of many that made computing what it is today and most if not all got little or no recognition

Barteos

StageWinner wrote:

How Steve Jobs helped change the world...

Imagine if he had never been born.

Would there been a computing device in virtually every home in this country?
Would most people own an MP3 player? Laptop? Smartphone? Computer of any kind?
Would your operating system look and act the way it does? (Mac or PC)
Would you buy your music via download?
Would you be reading this post right now? (Because I posted it from a Mac!)
Would the internet be as big or accessible as it?
Would you have seen Toy Story (1, 2 or 3) or any other Pixar film?
Would the entertainment (film/tv) industry have progressed to the degree it has?
Would the advertising and marketing industry be the same? (The industry that kept Apple going through it's darkest days)

Even if most of the answers were "no", our lives would be no worse or even better.
You are confusing "the world" (life in general) with a consumer electronic goods market .

verylonglegs

Carl_P wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

You'd think from some of the press coverage he was fabricating all the microchips, designing the pcb's, soldering it together and writing the software single-handedly.

Quite. But that's so often the case in business. The name behind the brand often gets all the credit when in reality much of it is down to the 'team' that delivers on his/her behalf.

You say often but there aren't many companies that I can name the CEO of, Mr. Jobs certainly excelled in being the face of a company more than anyone else.

EdHarris

verylonglegs wrote:

Carl_P wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

You'd think from some of the press coverage he was fabricating all the microchips, designing the pcb's, soldering it together and writing the software single-handedly.

Quite. But that's so often the case in business. The name behind the brand often gets all the credit when in reality much of it is down to the 'team' that delivers on his/her behalf.

You say often but there aren't many companies that I can name the CEO of, Mr. Jobs certainly excelled in being the face of a company more than anyone else.

Tony Hayward?

Squillinossett

MattC59 wrote:

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

Can't they just switch him off and on again?

ACE !!!

You think its funny making fun of dead people? iDont

MattC59

Squillinossett wrote:

MattC59 wrote:

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

Can't they just switch him off and on again?

ACE !!!

You think its funny making fun of dead people? iDont

iDontcare

Smokin Joe

Sir Clive Sinclair did more the get a computer into every home (in this country) than Steve Jobs.

His cheap and cheerful machines are what first made people actually want one.