Improving average speed

golfergmc

When people say TT pace, what hr zone would that be, as i`ve never done a TT.

markos1963

golfergmc wrote:

When people say TT pace, what hr zone would that be, as i`ve never done a TT.

Mid to high level 4 on a 10TT for me but everyone is different. Obviously as distance goes up that figure comes down

bisoner

golfergmc wrote:

When people say TT pace, what hr zone would that be, as i`ve never done a TT.

I find all this zone stuff confusing. My max HR is 185 - on a turbo I can sit at around a HR of 170 which would drift to around 174 - 175 over a 20 minute period. If I drift up to 176+ it's game over pretty quick. I find it much harder maintaining the same averages on real roads - often I will let it drift down unless I am climbing - then it is much easier to control HR. I've never done a TT too but speaking with a few people who have and are good at them, the TT HR will depend on the distance. Longer the distance, generally, the lower the average HR.

For the OP - When I started cycling a couple of years ago I couldn't hold a HR of 150 for very long and I also weighed two stones heavier. For my weight loss I spent last summer riding hard pretty much every week day (lunchtime - 15-20 mile fast as I could manage or hill repeats) along with cycling to work (a massive 3 mile commute each way). I also met 3 guys cycling one lunchtime and then I ended up cycling with them most days - this helped massively with motivation as each day we would push each other, especially on hills. Generally, I would rest at the weekend and/or maybe do an easier turbo session on Sat/Sun night.

I did have a couple of weeks without bread, crisps and chocolate but to be honest, I just ate a balanced diet in the end and the hard cycling efforts led to me losing the weight rather than me cutting down on particular foods.

Note, wife calls me a cycling obsessive.

CiB

Has no-one mentioned pedalling technique to improve matters?

Most of us learn to ride by pedalling the easy way, pushing from around the 2 o'clock pos to about 5 o'clock. You'll get an instant improvement by pedalling like the pro's - push through at the top of the stroke coming up to midnight, press all the way to 5 o'clock and then merge into the dragging through 6 o'clock, and relax on the upstroke - knees & leg muscles aren't much cop at lifting and it's relaxation time for one leg whilst the other does its turn.

Learn this technique and you'll be quicker.

And just push harder. Train to ride at 14mph and that's what you'll ride at. Push harder and those speeds will climb. There's no magic to it. To ride faster, you gotta ride faster.

OwenB

And just push harder. Train to ride at 14mph and that's what you'll ride at. Push harder and those speeds will climb. There's no magic to it. To ride faster, you gotta ride faster.

This is what I thought initially, have I just conditioned myself to riding at these speeds through course familiarity and complacency.
I've found myself a decent 10 mile route and am going to start flogging myself on that a couple of times a week and see how that goes.

CiB

OwenB wrote:

I've found myself a decent 10 mile route and am going to start flogging myself on that a couple of times a week and see how that goes.

Might be better to do it more than a couple of times a week then. 10 miles is about 40 minutes; any benefit from that will be long gone when you do the other ride that week. You need to up the effort - like lots have said, there's no easy way to get there. Sitting on a bike ambling at 14mph won't transform your speed & ability. Grunt, sweat & effort will though.

Find a mix - flog yourself on the hard course but have an easier route that takes 90 minutes or so, and aim for incremental improvements on easy to identify sections of the route, and where you see 16 mph, aim for 18 then 19 instead. Work at it.

markos1963

bisoner wrote:

golfergmc wrote:

When people say TT pace, what hr zone would that be, as i`ve never done a TT.

I find all this zone stuff confusing. My max HR is 185 - on a turbo I can sit at around a HR of 170 which would drift to around 174 - 175 over a 20 minute period. If I drift up to 176+ it's game over pretty quick. I find it much harder maintaining the same averages on real roads - often I will let it drift down unless I am climbing - then it is much easier to control HR. I've never done a TT too but speaking with a few people who have and are good at them, the TT HR will depend on the distance. Longer the distance, generally, the lower the average HR.
.

TBH using your max HR is pretty useless as it's almost impossible for an ordinary cyclist to measure this accurately. I don't use MHR zones too much any more, I prefer to use my lactate threashold as a measure. The easy way to work this out is to use my ave HR over a 10mTT( I use the ave from several for better accuracy) and do my training from this figure.

StillGoing

To the OP; what does it matter? Ask yourself; Are you enjoying your riding? Are you getting fitter? Who does it bother if you're not averaging 18mph or whatever figure anyone waving their willy about comes out with? You cycle for yourself and your own enjoyment and benefit. No one else matters. If you want to lose weight you need to be in a moderate heart rate zone most of the time so you won't be pushing hard. The fitter and lighter you get, eventually your average will increase. Keep at it.

The Ors

CiB wrote:

...pushing from around the 2 o'clock pos to about 5 o'clock. You'll get an instant improvement by pedalling like the pro's - push through at the top of the stroke coming up to midnight, press all the way to 5 o'clock and then merge into the dragging through 6 o'clock, and relax on the upstroke - knees & leg muscles aren't much cop at lifting and it's relaxation time for one leg whilst the other does its turn.

This is interesting. I have just recently happened upon this. I would describe it as 'rotating the pedals' rather than 'pushing down' on them. Seems to make a big difference.

Avezius

golfergmc wrote:

When people say TT pace, what hr zone would that be, as i`ve never done a TT.

I think the whole thing is very personal & specific TBH (Personally, I consider my "race pace" to be over 90% of max HR).

My max recorded HR is 211. This is the highest I have recorded & I can consistently get there by sprinting as hard as I can at the end of a 10mile route (usually racing my colleagues)...usually followed by (nearly) being sick on the side of the road!

My usual 10mile route (2mile warm-up & warm down either side) is dead flat & there is ALWAYS some wind. Usually ride in a group, but occasionally do it as a proper TT.

I have found I can maintain 180HR for 10miles easily (85% MHR). Not sure I could maintain 195HR (92% MHR) for a whole 10miles - but possibly most of the way. My last 2/3 mile is usually flat out - up around 200 (95%+MHR), with the final couple of hundred yards up to 210HR if I have a chance of winning the sprint!

As an example, yesterday, it was a 25mph+ tail wind out. Cruised out at 31-33mph (about 80-82%MHR) but died all the way back at about 18.5mph (90-95%MHR). Felt very hard & that was on a wheel a lot of the way too.

Worth noting that my HR is unusually high (most of my cycling buddies would be dead at 180HR !!!), but the ratio's in terms of HR vs MHR are similar to mine.

DavidJB

Avezius wrote:

golfergmc wrote:

When people say TT pace, what hr zone would that be, as i`ve never done a TT.

I think the whole thing is very personal & specific TBH (Personally, I consider my "race pace" to be over 90% of max HR).

My max recorded HR is 211. This is the highest I have recorded & I can consistently get there by sprinting as hard as I can at the end of a 10mile route (usually racing my colleagues)...usually followed by (nearly) being sick on the side of the road!

My usual 10mile route (2mile warm-up & warm down either side) is dead flat & there is ALWAYS some wind. Usually ride in a group, but occasionally do it as a proper TT.

I have found I can maintain 180HR for 10miles easily (85% MHR). Not sure I could maintain 195HR (92% MHR) for a whole 10miles - but possibly most of the way. My last 2/3 mile is usually flat out - up around 200 (95%+MHR), with the final couple of hundred yards up to 210HR if I have a chance of winning the sprint!

As an example, yesterday, it was a 25mph+ tail wind out. Cruised out at 31-33mph (about 80-82%MHR) but died all the way back at about 18.5mph (90-95%MHR). Felt very hard & that was on a wheel a lot of the way too.

Worth noting that my HR is unusually high (most of my cycling buddies would be dead at 180HR !!!), but the ratio's in terms of HR vs MHR are similar to mine.

I thought my HR was high but 180 -185 is full out sprinting rate for me!

ineedalager

I started out riding a MTB 4 yeras ago I was almost 17 stone I satretd with 5 miles rides 2 to 3 tiimes a week then stepped up to 8 miles and then 10. I stopped drinking 6 to 8 cans of lager a day and cut down on my food intake. In 3 months I lost 3 stone I always tried not on everyride to beat my best time. So times you just feel slow and knackered and know your not going that fast.

Other days you feel great and your up for it. I was averaging 15mph for a 30 mile ride 2 yeras ago. even now 60 miles takes me 4 hours on my hybird. I now ride a 20 miles 3 or 4 times a week at about 17mph aveage it include a couple of hills. I found as I upped the milage and put more effort in I got faster.

Two yers ago I managed 18.8mph for 21 miles on a ride with no hills on the hybrid. I got my new road bike last week and felt much faster and did 20.3 mph average for 23 miles.

I still find the hills hard I was walking up them 4 years ago and can now ride them most of them on the top 50t ring on my hybrid. But that has a 32t on the rear. I didn't realise how much this was helping me until I got my new road bkie which has a 52/39 amd a 13/26. I again found it harder on the steepest hills I ride. I had an 13/28 cassette fitted. I am trying to shift another stone in weight help with hills to get from 13 stone 10lbs down to 12 stone ish I'm 6ft 1in and it's a slow proccess even with all the riding I do. 3000 miles a year. I still may need to change my 52/39 for a compact 50/34 to help me with steeper hills and I can't see my self riding any 26k mountains like the pros do!

I have a turbo trainer I used in the first couple of years but if its dry out doesn't matter if it's minus tempreture I'm out on the bike. I never thought I would achieve what I have 3 stone loss 20mph average for 20 miles I still don't drink much at all now. Cycling up all the hills im my area and I'm 56 years old so I found putting in major effort got me to where I am now.

gsvbagpuss

Not an experienced biker but done my share of running. If you want to increase your base pace, do intervals. It knocked almost a minute off my mile/minute running pace just doing one session a week of 400m sprints with 400 recovery. If your routes suit, do some 30 second sprints with 30 secs recovery occasionally. You'll be amazed

kev77

Brother, i have not read any replys but the only advice i can supply is ride ride ride!

apreading

I now have a 12 mile ride which has a long but gradual hill, one very steep but short hill and one in between - fairly steep and over about 1/2 mile.

Am doing it in 51-52 mins at the moment - average just shy of 14mph. This average is from my speedo which (I think) stops when the bike isnt moving.

Have lost 2 stone over the last 3 months doing this and eating healthier. No crisps, burgers, cheese or alcohol... Down from 17.5 stone to 15.5. Hopefully my Cholesterol has dropped from the 6.3 I registered 2 months ago too. Have just had a second test and waiting for results.

Really enjoying pushing on the hills and can really tell the difference from when I started.

The area where I go has lots of hills, so I am going to do a small extra loop which will add 2 more hills and take me up over the hour again. Still managable.

I think if I really pushed hard I could now get my speed up but it has been so windy lately it has been hard. Desparate to get my average up higher but worried that the winter weather may not help.

dilemna

Avezius wrote:

golfergmc wrote:

When people say TT pace, what hr zone would that be, as i`ve never done a TT.

I think the whole thing is very personal & specific TBH (Personally, I consider my "race pace" to be over 90% of max HR).

My max recorded HR is 211. This is the highest I have recorded & I can consistently get there by sprinting as hard as I can at the end of a 10mile route (usually racing my colleagues)...usually followed by (nearly) being sick on the side of the road!

My usual 10mile route (2mile warm-up & warm down either side) is dead flat & there is ALWAYS some wind. Usually ride in a group, but occasionally do it as a proper TT.

I have found I can maintain 180HR for 10miles easily (85% MHR). Not sure I could maintain 195HR (92% MHR) for a whole 10miles - but possibly most of the way. My last 2/3 mile is usually flat out - up around 200 (95%+MHR), with the final couple of hundred yards up to 210HR if I have a chance of winning the sprint!

As an example, yesterday, it was a 25mph+ tail wind out. Cruised out at 31-33mph (about 80-82%MHR) but died all the way back at about 18.5mph (90-95%MHR). Felt very hard & that was on a wheel a lot of the way too.

Worth noting that my HR is unusually high (most of my cycling buddies would be dead at 180HR !!!), but the ratio's in terms of HR vs MHR are similar to mine.

How old are you as max HR decreases with age?

RoadyForever

Funny I changed the rear tyre on Saturday after a puncture that left a large gash. Even going from Conti Race (low end) to Conti Gatorskin (mid end, best my LBS had), the Conti Race is much more flimsy than the new one. And I was surprised how much faster I was (there was noticeable rolling noise on the old front tyre even though they were both @100psi), so I'm getting another. I reckon there's nearly 0.5mph in it (that's with just the rear tyre replaced), so cheap tyres (came with the bike) are more sh1t than I realised!

I do hate the handling of 'shiny' new tyres, I think I might put it on my turbo trainer tomorrow to wear it in, it will be lethal in the wet/ MM.

apreading wrote:

I now have a 12 mile ride which has a long but gradual hill, one very steep but short hill and one in between - fairly steep and over about 1/2 mile.

Am doing it in 51-52 mins at the moment - average just shy of 14mph. This average is from my speedo which (I think) stops when the bike isnt moving.

Have lost 2 stone over the last 3 months doing this and eating healthier. No crisps, burgers, cheese or alcohol... Down from 17.5 stone to 15.5. Hopefully my Cholesterol has dropped from the 6.3 I registered 2 months ago too. Have just had a second test and waiting for results.

Really enjoying pushing on the hills and can really tell the difference from when I started.

The area where I go has lots of hills, so I am going to do a small extra loop which will add 2 more hills and take me up over the hour again. Still managable.

I think if I really pushed hard I could now get my speed up but it has been so windy lately it has been hard. Desparate to get my average up higher but worried that the winter weather may not help.

I've been doing almost the exact same thing but using a 14mile route as the benchmark (one traffic light) and have also lost 2st in the last few months, it feels good doesn't it!

Maverick54

Riding harder will not help your average speed. You need to spend the winter riding at a high cadence, in HR zone 1 or 2 max. This is the zone where cellular changes occur, and this is what you need to happen in order to ride at a faster average pace over distance. The theory is 'ride slower to go faster'. Look it up. It really works, but you have to be strict with your heart rates. Do you know your HR max? If you do, then you can work out what HR you should be riding at for zone 1 or 2. The hardest part of this is exercising constraint when an old duffer passes you with his dog in the handlebar basket!

apreading

RoadyForever wrote:

Funny I changed the rear tyre on Saturday after a puncture that left a large gash. Even going from Conti Race (low end) to Conti Gatorskin (mid end, best my LBS had), the Conti Race is much more flimsy than the new one. And I was surprised how much faster I was (there was noticeable rolling noise on the old front tyre even though they were both @100psi), so I'm getting another. I reckon there's nearly 0.5mph in it (that's with just the rear tyre replaced), so cheap tyres (came with the bike) are more sh1t than I realised!

I do hate the handling of 'shiny' new tyres, I think I might put it on my turbo trainer tomorrow to wear it in, it will be lethal in the wet/ MM.

apreading wrote:

I now have a 12 mile ride which has a long but gradual hill, one very steep but short hill and one in between - fairly steep and over about 1/2 mile.

Am doing it in 51-52 mins at the moment - average just shy of 14mph. This average is from my speedo which (I think) stops when the bike isnt moving.

Have lost 2 stone over the last 3 months doing this and eating healthier. No crisps, burgers, cheese or alcohol... Down from 17.5 stone to 15.5. Hopefully my Cholesterol has dropped from the 6.3 I registered 2 months ago too. Have just had a second test and waiting for results.

Really enjoying pushing on the hills and can really tell the difference from when I started.

The area where I go has lots of hills, so I am going to do a small extra loop which will add 2 more hills and take me up over the hour again. Still managable.

I think if I really pushed hard I could now get my speed up but it has been so windy lately it has been hard. Desparate to get my average up higher but worried that the winter weather may not help.

I've been doing almost the exact same thing but using a 14mile route as the benchmark (one traffic light) and have also lost 2st in the last few months, it feels good doesn't it!

It certainly does feel good, both from a pride point of view and also my bodies reaction to exercise - I find that I crave physical exercise at times now and love pushing myself.

Went out on my same look today and set a new record (for me) 46 mins - a full 5 minutes faster than my previous best and an average over 15mph. Conditions were better than some of late - daytime, sunny but still had a headwind for parts. The only real difference is that for the first time I wore some 3/4 tights - they did make my thighs feel different with the compression, felt like more energy and power in them, but I dont know if that was the tights or just because I had been pushing myself harder...

I was going to do a longer loop, adding about 4 miles and another 2 hills, but when I got to half way and saw my average I decided to stick to my normal so that I could do something measurable to compare to previous.

Some other good news - got my latest Cholesterol results - down from 6.3 to 3.3 in just over 2 months. REALLY happy about that - perhaps that made me more comfortable pushing myself.

Funny thing is that I think I could have pushed harder if I was happy to be a wreck at the end. Should I push harder or stick within a reasonable comfort zone?

the_spooks

CiB wrote:

Has no-one mentioned pedalling technique to improve matters?

Most of us learn to ride by pedalling the easy way, pushing from around the 2 o'clock pos to about 5 o'clock. You'll get an instant improvement by pedalling like the pro's - push through at the top of the stroke coming up to midnight, press all the way to 5 o'clock and then merge into the dragging through 6 o'clock, and relax on the upstroke - knees & leg muscles aren't much cop at lifting and it's relaxation time for one leg whilst the other does its turn.

Learn this technique and you'll be quicker.

And just push harder. Train to ride at 14mph and that's what you'll ride at. Push harder and those speeds will climb. There's no magic to it. To ride faster, you gotta ride faster.

Can I just say thanks, tried this out today, concentrating on this technique if I noticed my speed drop and it made a difference to me. Used to think my technique wasn't too bad but wow was I wrong.