Standards of riding and fitness at trail centres

HebdenBiker

Went over to Gisburn Forest on Sunday. It was fairly busy despite the rain. Now - I am an overweight bloke on a cheap, heavy hardtail, but I found myself passing everyone in sight. There were people pushing their £3000 FS bikes up the hills, and grabbing the anchors on the descents. I saw more people standing round chatting (and blocking the trail!) than riding.

No doubt there were some fit guys and girls up there on Sunday, but I didn't see any of them!

It does make me wonder whether people over-think (or perhaps under-think) the whole MTBing thing, and furthermore I wonder whether many people get taken in by the "must have" articles in magazines, that make MTBing seem like a highly technical and expensive sport, when for many, their equipment is overkill for pootling round Gisburn Forest.

1. Some people were riding very slowly and cautiously on very expensive bikes. Who told them they needed an Orange 5 for a ride round the woods?

2. Some people had their bikes set up hopelessly poorly for the terrain. For some reason it appears to be fashionable to have your saddle down ridiculously low. What's all that about?

3. The only other person I met who seemed to be making an effort round the course was, like me, riding a cheap hardtail, and, like me, had his saddle height set up at the right height

Disclaimer:

I didn't intend this to be an "I'm great" thread. As I say - I'm an overweight bloke who doesn't get out riding as often as he should - which makes it all the more surprising that I do better than most down at Gisburn. Furthermore, I don't judge anybody. People can have whatever bike they like and ride it how they like. I just find it surprising that people would spend a fortune on a bike that makes them "faster", then not try very hard.

Anyone out there know what I'm talking about?

supersonic

The Trail Centre revolution has given a lot of people an easy to access escape, where they know the trails are going to be in decent condition, with some facilities, so is an easy way for many people to go biking. So if someone wants to buy an expensive bike and pootle on it, why not? You don't often need to spend that much, and I do agree that some mags push forward heavily certain prices and types of bikes.

Maybe they will get fitter, learn more about set up and their bike. And maybe in a years time they will be thrashing you ;-)

bennett_346

Ok dude

cloudynights

your not the only one who thinks this, think trail centres are fine but a tiny bit over hyped as to how good they are and what kinda bike you need to ride them

HebdenBiker

cloudynights wrote:

your not the only one who thinks this, think trail centres are fine but a tiny bit over hyped as to how good they are and what kinda bike you need to ride them

Agreed. Gisburn is great fun but not very technical - I see it as an XC course to blast round rather than some sort of technical challenge than can only be overcome with full-face helmets and long-travel bikes.

HebdenBiker

supersonic wrote:

So if someone wants to buy an expensive bike and pootle on it, why not?

Because it's a waste of money? No I agree with you - why not - but I'd suggest that most of the riders I saw on Sunday could have improved their performance not with an expensive bike but with a course of hill reps

Maybe they will get fitter, learn more about set up and their bike. And maybe in a years time they will be thrashing you ;-)

That would be fine with me. After all, isn't what we do a *sport*? That implies some element of improvement and competition.

cooldad

HebdenBiker wrote:

I don't judge anybody.

Really?

HebdenBiker

cooldad wrote:

HebdenBiker wrote:

I don't judge anybody.

Really?

yes

supersonic

I could say my bike is a waste of money, as I am sure I could complete the trails easily on a 200 quid Rockrider lol. But I prefer the Zaskar ;-)

dusk

supersonic is right, but there are a lot more "all the gear, no idea" riders about than there ever used to be but if they're happy to spend money on it then who am I to judge, it's them who 2nd hand buyers like me need

MountainMonster

Them spending good money on their bikes now get us better technology on the cheaper bikes in a few years time. The people who "waste their money" as you say keep the market moving. And it is only a waste of money if they don't use it, which they are out, so who cares. Sounds a bit like a hyped up jealous ego you have.

HebdenBiker

supersonic wrote:

I could say my bike is a waste of money

No I don't think so. I reckon you'd be pretty handy on that thing 8)

cooldad

HebdenBiker wrote:

supersonic wrote:

I could say my bike is a waste of money

No I don't think so. I reckon you'd be pretty handy on that thing 8)

Suck suck kiss kiss.

DodgeT

HebdenBiker wrote:

Agreed. Gisburn is great fun but not very technical - I see it as an XC course to blast round rather than some sort of technical challenge than can only be overcome with full-face helmets and long-travel bikes.

So did you have a go on all the black sections? Did you clear all the rocks on the way up to the slab? Pretty good going if you did.
How about the downhill section, maybe thats where the guys with the big travel bikes and ff's were going..

Oh, and you'll probably see me pootling, then going quick, then having a rest/drink etc. cause to be honest, I ride around for fun, i'm not in a race and its a good opportunity to have some fun with your mates.

Holyzeus

Almost certainly you are fitter and faster than me and have a shittier bike than me.....
Do i give a flying f***? No, i'm enjoying myself every weekend whilst getting fitter, faster and more skilful and its no fad.
Everyone starts somewhere

HebdenBiker

DodgeT wrote:

So did you have a go on all the black sections? Did you clear all the rocks on the way up to the slab? Pretty good going if you did.

Nah mate - did Hully Gully. Did the slab too but didn't get up there in a one-er. Didn't do any jumping 'cos I'd probably break my neck. Respect to the boys and girls who do this but it looks like a young person's game to me.

How about the downhill section, maybe thats where the guys with the big travel bikes and ff's were going..

Aye - no doubt some were, but the folks I'm talking about were riding round the red course.

flappy8

I guess the danger is that this ends up as one of the "people should not buy expensive bikes unless they are skillfull enough threads".

Truth is that I have seen people better than me on 300 hardtails locally. I do a lot of riding its in the chilterns and you don't need a full-suss for that so probaly some people look at me and think I'm over biked! But as I can't store 3 bikes I can't justify a hardtail and a full-sus.

Those people who think I look silly in the Chilterns haven't seen me hoofing down some of the rocky decents near Ladybower. And yes I'm only on a Stumpjumper (as the Orange 5 brigade look down on you) but I can beat lots of them down!

So to avoid getting grumpy we should just let people do what they want!

bike-a-swan

flappy8 wrote:

"people should not buy expensive bikes unless they are skillfull enough"

But isn't that the law?

Northwind

cloudynights wrote:

your not the only one who thinks this, think trail centres are fine but a tiny bit over hyped as to how good they are and what kinda bike you need to ride them

You need to find some better trailcentres

I don't see anyone saying you need an expensive bike to ride trailcentres... In fact I see plenty of people out having fun on ancient mtbs, supermarket specials, and £250 Halfords bikes. And knobs like me with intentionally bad bikes too. Lots of people want expensive bikes, and can afford them, and so have them... Problem?

captainfly

I'm totally overbiked on my FS, but when I hit the wrong line badly it is flattering enough not to catapult me into the scenary, the li hardtail with semislicks on the other hand is insane and feels like I'm giving the pale rider a seater :x Sometimes if you a new to biking the security of an expensive ride can help build confidence.

MountainMonster

Also, just a point to make, this is mountain biking, not road cycling. Road cycling it is frowned upon to stop, as the groups average time will go down and they only care about numbers, not smiles.

I'm a very decent rider, quite fit, and can tackle even the longest climbs without pauses should I feel the need to, but I don't. I'm not out to beat times, i'm not out to be a world champion, and i'm certainly not out to prove myself to anyone. I'm out to have fun, so yes, you will see me taking pauses, cruising on some of the boring sections saving steam for the harder parts, or just generally pootling along.

Must suck to "not judge" people, but still be so judgemental. I find it's normally the ones who say they aren't judgemental that are.

mintedox

I used to feel i'm being judged on my cheap hardtail but whenever i pass someone or get passed there is usually a friendly hello involved. If we have stopped to fix something usually passers by ask us if we have everything we need.
My advice is get over it and have fun

scrumpydave

MountainMonster wrote:

Also, just a point to make, this is mountain biking, not road cycling. Road cycling it is frowned upon to stop, as the groups average time will go down and they only care about numbers, not smiles.

I think this might be where the original poster might be coming from. The line about saddle height might be a clue.

I came into MTB because my mates were into it. I fancied myself to go pretty quickly because of my roadie background. I loved pointing out how high I liked my saddle compared to them and how fast I could climb a fire road. Now I still have a high saddle and I still climb faster than my mates but I lose all that time and more when it gets technical. I learned to respect what a skilled mountain biker can do and my new approach is to keep my gob shut (more than I did anyway) and watch how they ride.

I also learned about kit. I love my HT but a bumpy climb can stop me in my tracks because I lose traction where a FS rider can keep going. It's a different way of riding, not a fashion show.

Try not to count the number of people you pass. You'll miss what MTB is all about.

Atz

Can we have a moratorium on threads like this please? People buy expensive or cheap bikes because they can afford them or because that's all they can or want to afford. People go slow on trails because they're either unfit, tired or taking it easy. Some people ride big bikes on flat terrain, some people ride singlespeed rigid hardtails faster than them when it goes downhill and other's don't. Some people like body armour. Some like helmets (FF or otherwise, peakless or peaked) some don't.

I think we've covered all the straw man conversations there.

Personally, I like riding bikes with people who like riding bikes and don't really care what they ride as long as they fulfil the "like riding bikes" bit.

Markmjh

I have never had a "really great" bike, the 2006 Marin Alpine trail i ride now being the most expensive i have had. And i hvae had periods when i've ridden loads that i have got quite good. I used to be able to keep up with mates on Patiots, Bullits and stinkys back in the day when i rode my old GT Tequesta with 50mm Elastomer forks, i even used to manage to pass them sometimes.
No i'm on a "Nice" bike but am well out of pratice and panic if my tyres leave the floor for more than a second. But i still love cycling now as much as i did on my tequesta.
I can afford a better bike now so i bought one, simple as that really.

The guys you saw with the seats right down were more than likely heading to an area where they can play about and need the clearance.

You really need to stop focusing on the others on the trail and enjoy the trail yourself.

dunholm

^ what ATZ said.

Live and let live, surely.

Atz

Also, just for completeness and to not sound completely reasonable, I'm calling bullshit on this statement:

Road cycling it is frowned upon to stop, as the groups average time will go down and they only care about numbers, not smiles.

It's a lazy opinion about matched by the roadie "MTB riders are slow fat middle managers" which is true of some but not the majority. I ride on the road (I consider myself a cyclist, not particularly focused on either discipline) and although I focus on the numbers while I'm riding I get a lot of grins out of hitting 50mph on a fast bit of road or riding a particular section better than I've ridden before. Really it's not that different to MTB.

We all ride bikes, why do we feel we have to question people whose world view or method of enjoyment doesn't fit our own?

MountainMonster

Atz wrote:

Also, just for completeness and to not sound completely reasonable, I'm calling bullshit on this statement:

Road cycling it is frowned upon to stop, as the groups average time will go down and they only care about numbers, not smiles.

It's a lazy opinion about matched by the roadie "MTB riders are slow fat middle managers" which is true of some but not the majority. I ride on the road (I consider myself a cyclist, not particularly focused on either discipline) and although I focus on the numbers while I'm riding I get a lot of grins out of hitting 50mph on a fast bit of road or riding a particular section better than I've ridden before. Really it's not that different to MTB.

We all ride bikes, why do we feel we have to question people whose world view or method of enjoyment doesn't fit our own?

I ride alot of road as well, and breaks are never really tolerated, even when I ride with the people I ride MTB with. When it comes to road riding the only thing we have to really offer performance indicators and how good of a rider you are are to go by the numbers. The minute we are on our MTBs we are no longer worried about numbers, but smiles. So call bullshit all you want, but road cycling in general is more of a numbers game than a fun game.

Dobbs

An expensive bike is not (and never has been) an indication of rider ability.
It is an indicator that they have worked hard and made good decisions in life and as such have a few quid to spend on shiney pushbikes.

Atz

MountainMonster - So if you don't enjoy it, why do you do it? Seems perverse.

Mrs Toast

bike-a-swan wrote:

flappy8 wrote:

"people should not buy expensive bikes unless they are skillfull enough"

But isn't that the law?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPhPbTbjYM0

\o/