Nearly got knocked off by a Stagecoach Bus

sufferingpete

Riding through Sheffield tonight a Stagecoach bus pulled alongside and then pulled into bus stop. I ended up bashing my hand against the side of the bus and shouting ( not swearing) at the driver, leaning on the panel with my shoulder with my wheels brushing against the curb thinking I was coming off. Fortunately I remained upright.

He refused to give me his name and insurance unless I gave mine first. I got on the bus telling the driver I was calling the police. He then tried driving off with me on the bus, but I jammed the doors and jumped off. I then ran round the back and opened the boot and hit the Emergency stop then called the police.

Fortunately a lady on the bus backed my version of events when the police turned up (thanks who ever you are).

The upshot of this is that it was one of the new Hybrid -electric-diesels that they have to call out someone to reset it. It was now blocking the road and blocked all buses coming up the hill.

I have now been commuting for 8 years by bike and this is the first time I have done this. I was angry at having told him I was calling the police he drove off.

The police (who turned up promptly) took details but said he would probably not be contacting me again.

What is the legal position preventing someone driving off after an accident?

Does anyone think stagecoach will take any action against me or the driver?

Headhuunter

If the countless headcam clips of idiot drivers nearly mowing cyclists down and subsequent reports of police inaction is anything to go by, I should think it'll be an uphill struggle to get anything done. the police don't usually bother following these things up... They only do something if you are physically injured, however if it's "merely" a case of dangerous driving it'll be logged and forgotten...

shm_uk

In these circumstances it's probably more effective to lodge an official complaint with the bus company.

Give them the route number, vehicle reg, location & approx. time etc and they'll know who the driver was. If the police turned up you should have a crime/incident number & maybe even the PC's name/number.

If they take it seriously the driver will at the very east receive an official written warning from the company & perhaps disciplinary action.

This may also not be their first infringement, in which case it may be a sackable offence.

DrLex

When police attend an incident, and the attending officer doesn't proffer his/her cars, always get a name or badge number, plus their station- it makes following the matter up a lot easier.

P. S. I like your action of hitting the "Emergency Stop" button.

Headhuunter

shm_uk wrote:

In these circumstances it's probably more effective to lodge an official complaint with the bus company.

Give them the route number, vehicle reg, location & approx. time etc and they'll know who the driver was. If the police turned up you should have a crime/incident number & maybe even the PC's name/number.

If they take it seriously the driver will at the very east receive an official written warning from the company & perhaps disciplinary action.

This may also not be their first infringement, in which case it may be a sackable offence.

More likely the manager of the bus company will say "bloody cyclists" and throw the complaint in the bin...

Origamist

Headhuunter wrote:

shm_uk wrote:

In these circumstances it's probably more effective to lodge an official complaint with the bus company.

Give them the route number, vehicle reg, location & approx. time etc and they'll know who the driver was. If the police turned up you should have a crime/incident number & maybe even the PC's name/number.

If they take it seriously the driver will at the very east receive an official written warning from the company & perhaps disciplinary action.

This may also not be their first infringement, in which case it may be a sackable offence.

More likely the manager of the bus company will say "bloody cyclists" and throw the complaint in the bin...

Possibly, but not always:

http://www.magnatom.net/2011/08/meeting ... tcome.html

airbusboy

Not sure how the bus company will be informed, but do send them a formal letter, informing them of his actions (attempting to drive off) and then send the same letter to the licensing authorities

. Lets not forget he is a professional driver, being paid to transport 50+ people around in a 5T+ bus... he should be a competent driver and issues like this shouldn't arise from his inabilities. The fact he tried to drive off (TFL buses do the same) show that he is either concerned with the ramifications (company/police) or that they have a sh*t conscious/mental attitude issue, or both, and with that shouldn't be allowed to drive such a vehicle.

Glad to hear you're ok, i like how you hit the emergency stop bottom.

Rgds

ps. i don't like altercations with road users....BUT I do believe professional drivers should drive in a PROFESSIONAL MANNER,

mouth

sufferingpete wrote:

Riding through Sheffield tonight a Stagecoach bus pulled alongside and then pulled into bus stop. DIDN'T YOU SEE THIS COMING?

I ended up bashing my hand against the side of the bus and shouting ( not swearing) at the driver, I'D HAVE BEEN FOCUSING MY EFFORTS ON 'STOPPING'

leaning on the panel with my shoulder with my wheels brushing against the curb thinking I was coming off. Fortunately I remained upright. GOOD.

He refused to give me his name and insurance unless I gave mine first. THE BUS COMPANY I WORK FOR ASKS US NOT TO GIVE OUT OUR NAME FOR OUR OWN PERSONAL PROTECTION, REGARDLESS OF THE NATURE OF THE INCIDENT, INSTEAD GIVING OUR EMPLOYEE NUMBER AND THE COMPANY ADDRESS. SINCE WE ARE NOT THE POLICY HOLDER (IE THE DRIVER) WE ARE NOT ENTITLED TO GIVE DETAILS RELATING TO IT. EVERYTHING CAN BE TRACED FROM THE EMPLOYEE NUMBER.

I got on the bus telling the driver I was calling the police. He then tried driving off with me on the bus, but I jammed the doors and jumped off. SINCE THERE WAS NEITHER AN ACCIDENT NOR PERSONAL INJURY I'M AMAZED THE 1. THE POLICE EVEN BOTHERED TO SHOW AND 2. THERE WAS NO NEED TO REPORT IT.

I then ran round the back and opened the boot and hit the Emergency stop then called the police. WELL DONE. WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED TO YOU IF YOU'D GOTTEN DRAGGED INTO THE ENGINE BY ONE OF THE MANY MOVING BELTS AND PULLEYS. I SUPPOSE YOU'D HAVE EXPECTED SYMPATHY FOR THAT TOO.

Fortunately a lady on the bus backed my version of events when the police turned up (thanks who ever you are). NICE OF HER.

The upshot of this is that it was one of the new Hybrid -electric-diesels that they have to call out someone to reset it. It was now blocking the road and blocked all buses coming up the hill. AGAIN, WELL DONE. THE 50 OR SO PASSENGERS ON THE BUS YOU DISABLED ARE NOW THINKING, MY GOD ALL CYCLISTS, EVEN THE PRO TOUR RIDERS, TRACK RIDERS, BMX'ers, FREESTYLE AND DOWNHILL RIDERS ARE ALL COMPLETE AND UTTER DICKS.

I have now been commuting for 8 years by bike and this is the first time I have done this. I was angry at having told him I was calling the police he drove off.

The police (who turned up promptly) took details but said he would probably not be contacting me again. THEY PROBABLY WON'T, SINCE AS IT IS A CASE OF BAD DRIVING THEY WILL LEAVE IT TO THE COMPANY TO ATTEND TO.

What is the legal position preventing someone driving off after an accident?
THERE WAS NO ACCIDENT TO SPEAK OF. JUST A CASE OF BAD DRIVING.

Does anyone think stagecoach will take any action against me or the driver? AGAINST YOU NO. AGAINST THE DRIVER. YES. ABSOLUTELY. IF I'D BEEN IN AN INCIDENT (note 'incident' and not 'accident') LIKE THIS, QUITE FRANKLY I'D BE EXPECTING MY CARDS FIRST OFFENCE OR NOT.

`
Just a few points re the above.

If you do pursue the complaint with Stagecoach, and I would urge you to do so be ready to provide them with as much information as possible:

Date
Time
Place
Type of bus (single/double decker, bus number if you have it, any specific advertising you remember.
Remind them re the switching off incident. They should have logged the call out providing traceability.
Officers details - you should have been given an incident number which will again be traceable.

The more you can provide from the above will add credibility to your complaint.

I think Stagecoach carry CCTV on all vehicles. If they do it's likely to only store 5-7 days worth of material so yo need to get there quickly. If the driver has any wits about him he should have recorded and reported the incident anyway. Again, at my company we'd get hauled in over the fact we didn't report it.

If you send them a formal letter stating the complaint post it special delivery again for trace, confirming they receive it and give them a deadline for their response.

Since there was no accident as such or injury/damage to property I wouldn't be expecting compensation, only for action to be taken over the driver whether it be retraining, disciplinary proceedings etc.

Good luck, and keep us posted with the proceedings.

sufferingpete

Unfortunately I did not get any of the information that I should have, so I am not going to peruse the matter. The only thing that I can hope for is that the company will review the CCT footage. The company and the other buses behind will have lost some revenue I don’t know how long it took them to get it going. This was one of new hybrid-electric buses and I think that they have to get a mechanic out from the depot. It also blocked the exit so none of the other buses behind could get out.

Normally I don’t get angry at near misses however this time we actually made contact. I was disappointed by the driver’s attitude. If he had apologised for his mistake and taken steps to make sure it would not happen again I would have probably left it at that.

The real question is how do we prevent this type of accident happening again as a cyclist I don’t think that there is much more I can do.

prawny

@ Mouth, how would you see a bus coming up to overtake you and then pulling in? Unless you were looking backwards the whole time you'd not see it untill it was along side

veronese68

I had a similar incident a while ago. Only reason I didn't fall off is that I was on an old folding bike and jumped off as I hit the kerb. Caught the driver at a set of lights and had a go at him, he told me to "rork off" before driving off. Chased him down and stood in front of the bus having a go at him. He got out of the bus threatening me, but backed down very quickly when he realised I was bigger than him and VERY angry. He was very soon grovelling apologies at me. Stupidly I left it at that. I should have reported the twunt, he'll probably do it again. He was driving in an intimidating manner and then tried to get out of it by being intimidating.
I still regret not reporting it. Report it, they'll have a record because of the inconvenience you caused. They only get away with it because idiots like me let them by not reporting.
Rant over.

mybreakfastconsisted

Headhuunter wrote:

If the countless headcam clips of idiot drivers nearly mowing cyclists down and subsequent reports of police inaction is anything to go by, I should think it'll be an uphill struggle to get anything done. the police don't usually bother following these things up... They only do something if you are physically injured, however if it's "merely" a case of dangerous driving it'll be logged and forgotten...

Believe it:

Only six fines were issued for traffic offences in Hounslow in 2009-10 because police did not know it was their responsibility to enforce them, according to a council report.



http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... r-fines.do

Headhuunter

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

If the countless headcam clips of idiot drivers nearly mowing cyclists down and subsequent reports of police inaction is anything to go by, I should think it'll be an uphill struggle to get anything done. the police don't usually bother following these things up... They only do something if you are physically injured, however if it's "merely" a case of dangerous driving it'll be logged and forgotten...

Believe it:

Only six fines were issued for traffic offences in Hounslow in 2009-10 because police did not know it was their responsibility to enforce them, according to a council report.



http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... r-fines.do

That sounds about right. When I had my bike crash, the police were very good but then I was physically injured and in hospital. Otherwise they are more interested in catching cyclists jumping red lights than motorists behaving dangerously whilst in charge of 2 tonnes of metal and steel...

Rich158

Headhuunter wrote:

That sounds about right. When I had my bike crash, the police were very good but then I was physically injured and in hospital. Otherwise they are more interested in catching cyclists jumping red lights than motorists behaving dangerously whilst in charge of 2 tonnes of metal and steel...

My experience after being hit by a car is the exact opposite. The motorist who hit me gave the explanation that the sun was in his eyes so he couldn't see what was coming when turning right, and pulled across the oncoming traffic anyway wiping me out. Evidently, and this is the attending officers own version of events, the police then pulled into the position he would have been in waiting to turn right and agreed that it would have been impossible to have seen me and therefore would be taking no further action. They seem to have ignored the fact that pulling across oncoming traffic with no idea whether the road was clear or not would constitute driving without due care and attention at the very minmum. My solicitor has since confirmed that she has a file on Kent police failing to take action against motorists involved in traffic accidents that grows on a daily basis. The main issue would appear to be that the chances of securing a conviction are so low and the costs involved so prohibitively high that it's simply not worth prosecuting the majority of cases

georgee

Headhuunter wrote:

That sounds about right. When I had my bike crash, the police were very good but then I was physically injured and in hospital. Otherwise they are more interested in catching cyclists jumping red lights than motorists behaving dangerously whilst in charge of 2 tonnes of metal and steel...

I'd argue they are as equally as disinterested in both.

A twunt driving the no 14 towards Hyde Park Corner the other morning told me not to swear at him, I had to remonstrate I never would have if the fckwit hadn't endangered my life. i'm still annoyed I hadn't taken down any details to complain.

Headhuunter

Rich158 wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

That sounds about right. When I had my bike crash, the police were very good but then I was physically injured and in hospital. Otherwise they are more interested in catching cyclists jumping red lights than motorists behaving dangerously whilst in charge of 2 tonnes of metal and steel...

My experience after being hit by a car is the exact opposite. The motorist who hit me gave the explanation that the sun was in his eyes so he couldn't see what was coming when turning right, and pulled across the oncoming traffic anyway wiping me out. Evidently, and this is the attending officers own version of events, the police then pulled into the position he would have been in waiting to turn right and agreed that it would have been impossible to have seen me and therefore would be taking no further action. They seem to have ignored the fact that pulling across oncoming traffic with no idea whether the road was clear or not would constitute driving without due care and attention at the very minmum. My solicitor has since confirmed that she has a file on Kent police failing to take action against motorists involved in traffic accidents that grows on a daily basis. The main issue would appear to be that the chances of securing a conviction are so low and the costs involved so prohibitively high that it's simply not worth prosecuting the majority of cases

Yep, sad reality. I had basically the same accident... Driver turned from opposite direction across my path and I went over his bonnet, taking out his windscreen on the way through. The officers were quite supportive and one was basically advising me to get a no win no fee sol onto it for compensation, but there was no legal recourse/prosecution, as in your case, the driver was simply sent on a course....

mouth

prawny wrote:

@ Mouth, how would you see a bus coming up to overtake you and then pulling in? Unless you were looking backwards the whole time you'd not see it untill it was along side

When riding and approaching a hazard (I do in fact see a bus stop as a hazard) I take an assessment and a survey of what in fact might happen. As a part of this I take a look over my shoulder, for instance when approaching a junction on my left, no harm in looking over my shoulder to see if a car is gonna cut me up. I'd have thought a 'life-saver' (motorcycling terms) might be especially important since the OP stated there are hybrid electric buses in his area and they're virtually silent.

Besides all this, who doesn't have a look over their shoulder periodically when riding anyway? Because you should.

Blue Meanie

Scarey incident, g;ad it came to nothing more than shouting and remonstrating.

+1 @Mouth for 'situational awareness'
Bus Stops, are where buses err, stop
Same goes for taxis, normally identifiable as being a taxi
And 'L' plates

If only all road users would apply the above and include that a person on a bicycle is also a 'hazard' - could be going slow/fast, can filter, can wobble in the wind, needs to swerve to avoid roadside clutter, may not indicate, may have poor 'situational awareness' as doesn't have mirrors...

t4tomo

Mouth wrote:

prawny wrote:

@ Mouth, how would you see a bus coming up to overtake you and then pulling in? Unless you were looking backwards the whole time you'd not see it untill it was along side

When riding and approaching a hazard (I do in fact see a bus stop as a hazard) I take an assessment and a survey of what in fact might happen. As a part of this I take a look over my shoulder, for instance when approaching a junction on my left, no harm in looking over my shoulder to see if a car is gonna cut me up. I'd have thought a 'life-saver' (motorcycling terms) might be especially important since the OP stated there are hybrid electric buses in his area and they're virtually silent.

Besides all this, who doesn't have a look over their shoulder periodically when riding anyway? Because you should.

Jesus you're mr effing perfect aren't you.

To be honest the first you know about it is when the bus car or whatever pulls along side, possibly indicating left, and however tempting is is to thump the bus, the best thing you can do it hit the anchors hard and dive onto the pavement if necessary.

Then you can hit the bus and yell at the driver.

merkin

I am amazed that mouth is giving the impression that it is the onus of the cyclist to look out for the bus coming up behind him rather than the bus drivers responsibility not to drive past and then into a cyclist. Sure, you need to keep your wits about you and practice some hazard awareness. But how the hell can a bus driver drive past someone without noticing them and then pull in unless he is paying absolutely no attention to the traffic.
And seeing as there was contact between a moving vehicle and the op, I would suggest that constitutes an accident.

mouth

merkin wrote:

I am amazed that mouth is giving the impression that it is the onus of the cyclist to look out for the bus coming up behind him rather than the bus drivers responsibility not to drive past and then into a cyclist.

I'm not saying this at all. What I am merely saying is that SOMETIMES a road user may make a mistake. I am not indicating that the OP did this, but I'm sure that at some point you as a road user have made a mistake and have been saved by someone else's awareness. We all make mistakes. Fact.

Also, at no point have we been given the bus drivers version of events. Perhaps he has something to say about the cyclist's actions/role in the incident. Since we're never likely to get that side of the story, do we have to assume that the OP was indeed being Mr Road Safety by wearing hi-visibility clothing (day time), reflective clothing (night time), lights on?, Ipod? etc. Please don't lambast the driver until we know all of this stuff. It's a bit like saying that because you're a cyclist, then you must be one of them cocks who constantly jumps red lights, rides on the pavement and filters between 18-wheelers.

I stand by the phrase 'There's no such thing as an accident, only a collision somebody didn't plan properly to avoid'.

I am also not trying to say that it MUST be the cyclists fault. He has some part to play in this I'm sure.

"Normally I don’t get angry at near misses" (Lifted directly from OP's second post on this thread) - Not being funny, but in 2 years of regular commuting I can't think of a single near miss I may have had, except for when a car driver jumped a red light. Not accusing the OP of getting himself into trouble - that's another thread - but if he can recall several near misses in 8 years, then something ain't right.

As a professional driver I have a responsibility towards all road users (including a pedestrian crossing the road or indeed a cyclist) and it is something I take very seriously. In seven months of driving a 6tonne + bus and 40 or so passengers safe (depending on duties shifts, could be as much as 16tonne and over 100 passengers) for more than 40 hours per week I am proud to report that I have had no collisions (including broken wing mirrors - mine or a car), or caused any injuries to another road user or passenger. Not to say its never been close - ask the National Express driver who pulled onto the major road without bothering to look. We were so close I had to reverse so he could manouvere around me. This is one of those instances where someone made a mistake and was bailed out by another road user) but in over 1000 hours of driving I think that's quite a good record. Also taking into account my other road use such as cycling and driving a car.


Sufferingpete - I have not deliberately tried to apportion blame to you for anything, and am sorry if this is the given impression. I would urge you to please follow up with Stagecoach, so as the driver be made to explain himself


I would also urge any cyclist to contact their local bus company - be it through a road safety partnership, cycling club or just independently to arrange a 'seat swap' so you can see just what the driver of a large vehicle (a class 2 hgv/lgv will be something like a similar size, but with an elevated seat position) has to deal with with regards to blind spots, including doors, support columns and indeed the mirrors sent to help us. If there is anyone in the Nottingham area, please feel free to send me a PM and I will gladly do my best to help arrange this for you.

My final word on the original post is this: One of the parties made a mistake (I admit probably the bus driver). Nobody got hurt. We all thank our lucky stars. End of.

Kieran_Burns

Mouth? You don't drive for Notts County Council do you?

DrLex

I take issue with

I am also not trying to say that it MUST be the cyclists fault. He has some part to play in this I'm sure.

If this line of reasoning was taken in all incidents, contributory negligence would be apportioned to the other party on the basis of just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Ideally, we'd spot all potential hazards and be able to act accordingly. Where I live, most bus stops have no sign, let alone a shelter or road markings- it's local knowledge. Is a cyclist negligent by not assuming that any bus approaching from the rear will overtake and pull in at any time? If so, $DEITY help us when it comes to taxis...

mouth

Kieran_Burns

In a round about kinda way, yes.

Kieran_Burns

Mouth wrote:

Kieran_Burns

In a round about kinda way, yes.

http://youtu.be/WtQC0M05Cv8?hd=1

:evil:

Clairep

Well I was knocked off by a white van on tuesday who turned left in front of me at a roundabout when I was going straight on and have decided that if i get cut up by a vehicle with a name on the side I am going to email the company concerned and tell them of their drivers bad driving, + road, time, date etc.

Not likely to do any good but you shouldn't give up hope..

t4tomo

Clairep wrote:

Well I was knocked off by a white van on tuesday who turned left in front of me at a roundabout when I was going straight on and have decided that if i get cut up by a vehicle with a name on the side I am going to email the company concerned and tell them of their drivers bad driving, + road, time, date etc.

Not likely to do any good but you shouldn't give up hope..

I've just checked offline with "mouth" apparently you should have looked behind you in plenty of time, noted down the number and phoned the van driver and asked him by which exit he intended to leave the roundabout, and then get the hell out of his way accordingly.

Butterd2

For those regretting not getting the required info when this happened to them use your phone camera.
I was badly cut up by a bus a while ago, chased him down to the next stop and pulled in front of him so he could not drive away, then I got out my phone and took a mug shot of the driver and a shot of the numberplate.
I sent this into the bus company copying TfL and got an email back saying they had identified the driver but could not tell me what action was taken as this was confidential (fair enough). If this was a one off then hopefully that will make him look next time, if its a regular thing then after a number of complaints they would have to take some action.

jimmypippa

Clairep wrote:

Well I was knocked off by a white van on tuesday who turned left in front of me at a roundabout when I was going straight on and have decided that if i get cut up by a vehicle with a name on the side I am going to email the company concerned and tell them of their drivers bad driving, + road, time, date etc.

Not likely to do any good but you shouldn't give up hope..

Not stopping after an accident?

bails87

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Mouth wrote:

Kieran_Burns

In a round about kinda way, yes.

http://youtu.be/WtQC0M05Cv8?hd=1

:evil:

So does:

Mouth wrote:

[The cylist] has some part to play in this I'm sure.

apply here too?

Clairep

Well i did look behind me actually but was just on the roundabout when he pulled across me.

An ambulance, police and witnesses at the scene so hopefully I'll have no problem with my solicitors sorting out a deal for me.