Thoughts on the suggested 80mph

DF33

In France, in round figures, it's 70 wet and 80 dry. Works well.

lifeform

plowmar wrote:

Can't see how it would help 'commerce', reps could just pick up a phone for repeat orders or query answers thereby leaving only prearranged new customers to do face to face. = get organised not drive faster.

Company execs./ staff could 'meet' via video conferencing - save on all those expense claims,

That will just leave deliveries which apart from train cannot be done any other way, and the trucks are limited to 60 at the moment with no thought to increasing that.

Only reason now left is as others have said is revenue income from petrol/diesel and we are supposed to be running out of these aren't we?

This is basically true already.

I've been a sales rep in IT for 15 years. Up until 2001 when Gordon Brown changed the rules on company car taxation it was a case of drive everywhere for everything at the slightest excuse. Big petrols were the order of the day

Now we're actively discouraged from driving, encouraged to conduct as many virtual meetings as possible, and drive economical/small cars.

I've just returned to a role I was doing between 2000 and 2004 - back then I was clocking up 75,000 miles per annum. Now I'll be unlucky to do much more than 15,000

Nancy Luger

I find as fuel prices climb higher people are generally driving slower, on the motorway section of my commute I'm overtaking most people when I get up to about 65mph. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the hidden agenda behind a speed increase was revenue driven.

SmellTheGlove

Rolf F wrote:

, I'd rather average about 70 with the odd variation faster and slower

That would be some feat for a whole door-to-door journey.

It would make bog all difference to "commerce" since HGVs will still be further limited. Most cars driven by Joe Bloggs and his missus are busting their boilers at 80mph despite all the hype.
The policy makers are fond of saying "in other countries they do this, bla-bla..." well, for instance, the upper limit in Spain was reduced from 120km/h to 110km/h earlier this year.
Perhaps some people are afraid that the UK will go the same way as Spain unless... oh, wait a minute...

mouth

There is little to no point in 80mph. If it really is for commerce, then they'd in theory have to interfere with the EU and raise the HGV speeds as well. Can't see it.

As for fat salesmen in German rep mobiles, then if they really wanna speed stuff up, use the phone (not whilst driving though).

Re the comment about cars having become more safe etc. Well that's great but it's never the technical bit's mistake. That dubious honour belongs to the organic bit sat behind the wheel. I totally agree with the fact that people will think "well if the limit's 80, 90'll be alright".

woodnut

I think it should be reduced. They do much bigger mileages in the US with a max of 55mph.
Reducing the max speed limit to 60 and rigidly enforcing would cut our national fuel consumption massively and make little real difference to the vast majority of journey times.
Also residential streets should be 20 and those lazy bastards who park outside schools should be shot, on the spot, Judge Dredd style :idea:

plowmar

You know 'woodnut' I almost agree with you.

ilm_zero7

perhaps make all motorways 90 mph, and all roads 50 - that MIGHT make more traffic use motorways than rat run through the b roads, and reduce car vs bike differentials - ??

some hope

SLX01

If they made the driving test include motorway driving it may help matters, the skills required to park a car and pootle around a housing estate on the test are not the same as driving along at 70 mph.

RoadyForever

I think the entire speed limit system needs a major overhaul:

20mph in built up area's (this is the key to getting more people to cycle for short journeys).
A/B roads - fine the way they are 60 is a fair speed.
unclassified, single tracks - 40mph.
Motorway - fine, a soft limit of 80mph (where/ when it is safe to do so)

If you are caught (charged) with speeding/ dangerous driving, a minimum 6 week driving ban (driving is a luxury not a god given right which many think) - Driving like an a*hole does have serious consequences on others.

alihisgreat

As a driver... i don't really see the point -> 70 is fast enough for me, and most people are only doing 65 when their speedo says 70 anyway so there is a free 5mph in there for a lot of people without a need to change the limits


As a cyclist... i don't cycle on dual carriageways or motorways so i wouldn't be concerned by that... i would be concerned that it would encourage faster driving on other roads though.

inkyfingers

Seems to go against everything that governments have been saying for the last 20 years about how we need to reduce our consumption of fossil fuels and produce less CO2. I used to drive everywhere on the motorway at 80 units of measurement but in recent years I realised that all i'm doing is using more fuel, getting more stressed and only saving a handful of minutes on a typical journey so now I sit at 60-65 and driving is much more pleasurable.

CiB

woodnut wrote:

I think it should be reduced. They do much bigger mileages in the US with a max of 55mph.

I like this site. The US hasn't had a blanket 55 limit for years.

And all those people saying "it's just a revenue raiser"? Bring it on. There's a govt deficit - you may have seen it on the news the other day. As this sort of thing is the most voluntary of voluntary additional taxes that anyone can choose to pay, how can it be a bad thing to normalise an activity that's v widespread to generate additional revenue legitimately?

prawny

CiB wrote:

woodnut wrote:

I think it should be reduced. They do much bigger mileages in the US with a max of 55mph.

I like this site. The US hasn't had a blanket 55 limit for years.

I was going to say this, I was in America a couple of years ago expecting to be pootling around everywhere but the limit on the interstates were all 70mph with most cars around normal Mway speeds over here. We drove from Vegas to San francisco with the cruise set at 90ish most of the way.

woodnut

prawny wrote:

CiB wrote:

woodnut wrote:

I think it should be reduced. They do much bigger mileages in the US with a max of 55mph.

I like this site. The US hasn't had a blanket 55 limit for years.

I was going to say this, I was in America a couple of years ago expecting to be pootling around everywhere but the limit on the interstates were all 70mph with most cars around normal Mway speeds over here. We drove from Vegas to San francisco with the cruise set at 90ish most of the way.

:oops: fair play, it's years since I was there....

stage_fright

Interesting that a couple of the earlier posters comment on a perceived reduction in average motorway speeds, that had been my impression in the last few months, as well as maybe a slight reduction in traffic levels at times. My cmpany are heavily into virtual meetings etc, but the main change in my bahaviour is no longer being able to use my fuel card for private mileage....suddenly it is all about fuel consumption etc and running the speed that gets you 50mpg.

The average sped cameras in raod works seem to be one system that everyone obeys - as stated above it must be the main use of cruise control - but has anyone encountered (and not in a 'bloke down the pub' sense) a driver who has actually been prosecuted using them? Just occured to me that with 500 plus company vehicles here, I have not heard of a case.

Pross

edhornby wrote:

Wot Redhog says is right, the speed limit should dependant on the conditions

what about the minimum speed limit? it's set at 40mph at the moment which is currently too low, the motorways are safe because everyone goes the same speed, are the majority of motorists able to hold 80...

I wonder if there are any motorways in the UK that are empty enough for everyone to routinely do 80mph?

M48, M49 and M50 all fit the bill in my neck of the woods (when M50 doesn't have road works!).

Pross

Just a further thought on this. The argument that increasing speed limits will decrease journey times is flawed. Unfortunately very few drivers keep the required distance from the car in front for any given speed and this becomes worse as speed increases. Most delays on motorways result from the concertina effect as drivers who are too close have to touch the brakes and cars behind have to break harder and harder or ultimately from accidents which often arise from rear end shunts due to the same issue. This is why variable speed limits have been introduced on the busiest sections of motorway in this country as research has shown that decreasing speed actually improves traffic flow and reduces delay.

On reducing speed limits in built up areas to 20mph, this certainly has merit as there is a large upward curve in pedestrian fatalities once speeds edge above this. The theory is that the human body is designed to take impacts up to that speed as it is about the maximum speed humans have evolved to move at under their own steam (e.g if they had run into a tree while chasing a sabre tooth tiger). However, police forces have restricted resources and often only back 20mph limits if they are self-enforcing which means engineering in some form of traffic calming or providing speed cameras. One thing that was being trialled a couple of years back and which may have a big impact on traffic speeds in the next decade or so is linking speed limits to car GPS systems and that in turn to the car's engine management system which will prevent the vehicle travelling above a speed limit.

sfichele

Most delays on motorways result from the concertina effect as drivers who are too close have to touch the brakes and cars behind have to break harder and harder

research has shown that decreasing speed actually improves traffic flow and reduces delay.

+1

I did a lot of motorway driving previously and the concertina effect is something that I saw time after time.

Another problem I always saw was the "pealing off effect". If you were driving in the middle lane at 70 and are about to overtake, you'd always find someone doing 71 in the outside lane, and you'd have to wait/slow down before changing lanes. Now say there are 5 cars behind a lorry in the middle lane and they are all waiting to overtake but the outside lane is chocker then what happens is this - the outside lane suddenly clears and has a large gap. The last car in the middle lane gets the chance to overtake, but is now effectively blocking the other four. Once it passes, the last car again get a chance to overtake. This whole process takes quite a bit of time as the middle cars peal off into the outside lane. When the traffic is really busy this effect grinds everything to a slow pace.

It would be more efficient if all of the cars waited for the gap and changed at the same time. In practice that NEVER happens.

Also, every time a car changes lane aggressively they slow down the other lane, which adds to the concertina effect. And it's my view that the faster, more selfish drivers greatly reduce the speed of other drivers

These complicated movements of cars blocking each other means that increasing the speed will not decrease journey time when the road is busy! Instead the large differential of speed will simply make it more dangerous when lane changes happen - why ? because if you increase the speed of the cars you'd need to increase the speed of the slower vehicles like lorries and caravans - and that's a bad, bad idea!

As Pross says, the flow can increase when the overall speed is decreased. Why -because you get more cars in more lanes. The flow is greater if all vehicles are doing are 50 mph in all three lanes, rather than a truck doing 50 mph in the middle lane and ten cars doing 60 mph in the outside lane trying to overtake it, and the inner lane effectively empty. That's not good use of motorway tarmac

Ben6899

amaferanga wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

....Those people hustling by are those "professional" drivers who know about such things.

Fair enough, but I was referring to the folk that speed up between cameras then slow down again at the cameras.

Oh. The thick cnuts who don't realise they're actually being timed all the way through the speed reduced zone.

It's based on v = d/t, but some drivers seem to think it's based on a mean average of each camera reading. Like I said; thick cnuts.

As for revising speed limits, I could write pages and pages backed up with calcs and diagrams (many benefits, support and concerns), but then the ICE would hope so! Don't worry;I'm not gonna bother!

verylonglegs

meanredspider wrote:

Monkeypump wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

The only times I ever see (almost) everyone sticking to the speed limit is when there are average speed camera sections (though there are plenty of muppets that don't seem to understand just how they work).

I often see those cars fly past me and wonder if the driver knows something I don't (i.e. camera not switched on, etc.). I've not been brave/stupid enough to risk trying to find out though!

The "limits" on these are set really high - an average speed camera section of,say, 40mph will not trigger until something in excess of 55mph (though don't come looking for me if I'm wrong)

I think that is a serious bit of misinformation, a speed trap with a near 40% tolerance?! I've never seen a lorry break any of the average limits on the ones used on the M25 and A14 and I think they of all people would know. Just how do you identify a 'professional' driver?

rick_chasey

Stage Fright wrote:

but has anyone encountered (and not in a 'bloke down the pub' sense) a driver who has actually been prosecuted using them? Just occured to me that with 500 plus company vehicles here, I have not heard of a case.

My dad.

Average speed was 99.

Was not impressed.

tarquin_foxglove

In the ITV report about 45 secs in Philip Hammond said "due to widespread non-compliance with the 70 mph limit it doesn't have legitimacy with the public any more, ... raising it to 80 will bring 100,000s perhaps millions of motorists, who are otherwise law-abiding, back on the right side of the law"

What next a consultation about changing the law on rlj & pavement cycling?

ChrisSA

verylonglegs wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Monkeypump wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

The only times I ever see (almost) everyone sticking to the speed limit is when there are average speed camera sections (though there are plenty of muppets that don't seem to understand just how they work).

I often see those cars fly past me and wonder if the driver knows something I don't (i.e. camera not switched on, etc.). I've not been brave/stupid enough to risk trying to find out though!

The "limits" on these are set really high - an average speed camera section of,say, 40mph will not trigger until something in excess of 55mph (though don't come looking for me if I'm wrong)

I think that is a serious bit of misinformation, a speed trap with a near 40% tolerance?! I've never seen a lorry break any of the average limits on the ones used on the M25 and A14 and I think they of all people would know. Just how do you identify a 'professional' driver?

Any given average speed camera zone (yellow ones) will have commercial vehicles going through at 56mph. They don't slow down at all.

Cleat Eastwood

i totally agree and this post has nothing to do with me trying to get the top 3 posts so I can go to bed happy.

TuckerUK

Have you seen the appalling standard of driving on our roads at 70mph? Tailgating (no 2 second gap), lack of indication, drivers who haven't eve checked their vehicle over (let alone daily/weekly)...

80mph you say? :shock:

Oh, and I'm not an anti-car cyclist. I drive almost everywhere and use my MTB for recreation.

sfichele

This was front page news in the Metro today. The idea is that it will boost the economy.

How in the F@#K will it boost the economy, when it wont make a blind bit of difference to average speed, whereas it will most likely increase serious accidents. If some salesperson is able to get to some office 5 mins earlier after a 2 hr journey how does that help the economy? Perhaps they have more time to buy a second latte - that should help bail out the banking crisis. Not mention said salesperson will already have been driving at 90 anyway.

The other quote was that the increase in speed will reverse the many years of
"War on the Motorist" by the labour government - What god damn war?

rick_chasey

sfichele wrote:

This was front page news in the Metro today. The idea is that it will boost the economy.

How in the F@#K will it boost the economy, when it wont make a blind bit of difference to average speed, whereas it will most likely increase serious accidents. If some salesperson is able to get to some office 5 mins earlier after a 2 hr journey how does that help the economy? Perhaps they have more time to buy a second latte - that should help bail out the banking crisis. Not mention said salesperson will already have been driving at 90 anyway.

The other quote was that the increase in speed will reverse the many years of
"War on the Motorist" by the labour government - What god damn war?

C'mon, you should be in a position to realise the motor is king.

Only in the UK would a boorish motoring programme like top gear be prime time massive ratings viewing.

cougie

Bizarre. So if enough people break the law - it gets changed ?
Hmmm didnt really work for the looters did it and their knee jerk grossly overlong sentences.

Any mathematicians out there ? Whats the maximum throughput of cars driving at 80mph versus 70mph on a particular stretch of motorway.

Obviously the cars would get thru quicker - but you'd need a longer distance between the cars - anyone stick to the 2 second rule ?

verylonglegs

ChrisSA wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Monkeypump wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

The only times I ever see (almost) everyone sticking to the speed limit is when there are average speed camera sections (though there are plenty of muppets that don't seem to understand just how they work).

I often see those cars fly past me and wonder if the driver knows something I don't (i.e. camera not switched on, etc.). I've not been brave/stupid enough to risk trying to find out though!

The "limits" on these are set really high - an average speed camera section of,say, 40mph will not trigger until something in excess of 55mph (though don't come looking for me if I'm wrong)

I think that is a serious bit of misinformation, a speed trap with a near 40% tolerance?! I've never seen a lorry break any of the average limits on the ones used on the M25 and A14 and I think they of all people would know. Just how do you identify a 'professional' driver?

Any given average speed camera zone (yellow ones) will have commercial vehicles going through at 56mph. They don't slow down at all.

I was referring to the 40mph limits at roadworks, I've never seen a commercial vehicle exceed those.