Indicators

Wallace1492

OK, I don't always indicate where I am going, but I am not driving a couple of tons of metal, and often need to be doing other things with my hands.

So, should the incorrect (or not at all) use of indicators on vehicles be punishable.

It really gets my goat, from the waiting for a car to go straight on, and they turn off left at a roundabout without indicating to the turning left at traffic lights after being in a line of stationery cars. I avoid like the plague, just get in primary or filter up outside if there is room.

Then there is them that indicate and cut you up, as if indicating is a way of legitimising their (at best) incondsiderate or downright dangerous and illegal manouver.

Taxi's and BMW's don't seem to be fitted with working indicators

Also why do buses and taxi's not get stopped (well not much IMHO) for any traffic violation. They seem to be able to run lights at will.

So, who does not indicate, and should they.

Long_Time_Lurker

As someone who doesn't drive very much, I see indicators as something for pedestrians as well as other drivers. I'm not sure all drivers see it that way.

I always indicate (force of habit from when I used to cycle around Manchester city centre).
Even at 5:30 in the morning when I am the only person awake.
I do sometimes feel slightly embarrassed, but there is noone there to see me, so it doesn't make much difference. :oops:

veronese68

I sometimes indicate when there is no choice but to turn. It's just an inbuilt part of the whole manouevre.
I agree not indicating is really irritating but I don't think it should be legislated for. I can see the progression. Legislation added to a lack of common sense would mean someone like LTL would get a ticket for not indicating at 5.30am because he was seen by a camera. I wouldn't mind if an actual flesh and blood policeman were to give someone a ticket for not indicating using something like due care and attention. I don't know the exact legalese and I'm sure I will be corrected.

Mr Plum

Wallace1492 wrote:

So, should the incorrect (or not at all) use of indicators on vehicles be punishable.

It is - I may be wrong, but it's my understanding that if an accident is caused because of incorrect indication then the accident is deemed to be that persons fault.

Monkeypump

If you want to be treated like a legitimate road user, behave like one.

i.e. indicate - it's not that hard.

MrChuck

Long Time Lurker wrote:

As someone who doesn't drive very much, I see indicators as something for pedestrians as well as other drivers. I'm not sure all drivers see it that way.

I always indicate (force of habit from when I used to cycle around Manchester city centre).
Even at 5:30 in the morning when I am the only person awake.
I do sometimes feel slightly embarrassed, but there is noone there to see me, so it doesn't make much difference. :oops:

Same here, I don't drive much and always indicate for everybody's benefit, not just drivers. My GF wonders why, and reckons she only indicates when she needs to. But I reckon it's a fairly short step from only indicating when you feel like it to not indicating when you should have done. And it's not like it's a big effort is it? You literally only have to lift a finger.

suzyb

Usually indicate when driving even if there isn't anyone there to see it. Force of habit now. Only time I don't indicate when I probably should is pulling back in after overtaking and going straight at roundabouts.

Don't always indicate when cycling though. Sometimes I just need both hands on the bars when coming up to a junction.

bails87

MrChuck wrote:

Same here, I don't drive much and always indicate for everybody's benefit, not just drivers.

I drive quite a lot, and alway indicate. It drives me mad when other people don't bother, because that's all it is. On a bike it can be genuinely difficult or dangerous to indicate whilst turning, but if you're in a car and don't do it it's because you're lazy/thick/selfish.

I've seen some strange attempts at it though, drivers going all the way round a roundabout, to go back on themselves, without indicating at all. Or the ones who go right, but don't indicate until they're about to turn off the roundabout, but they don't indicate left off the RAB, they indicate right :?

Grrrr



[/pet hate]

bails87

suzyb wrote:

Only time I don't indicate when I probably should is pulling back in after overtaking

Do you actually have to do this? I was never taught to, and it's not in the Highway Code.

People do it to me when I'm on the bike, as we're approaching left turns, and it always looks like an impending left hook. I know they're going to pull back in, so indicating in that situation is worse than not indicating, since their intentions are already clear.

suzyb

bails87 wrote:

suzyb wrote:

Only time I don't indicate when I probably should is pulling back in after overtaking

Do you actually have to do this? I was never taught to, and it's not in the Highway Code.

Pretty sure I was taught to do so. Although I don't really see the point of it. If you've just overtaken someone, especially on a single carrrigeway road you're going to be pulling back in.

bails87

Yea, BTW, I meant overtaking on a single carriageway road, not passing someone on a motorway/dual carriageway. Obviously you should indicate whenever you change lanes in that situation.

walkingbootweather

I did an advanced driving course sometime ago and my instructor insisted that I should only indicate when required and NOT as a matter of course. The logic was that you should always be aware of what was around you and should communicate intentions to identified people. Indicating regardless of whether there was anyone to see it was considered wrong as if fostered an "I've indicated, so I can just pull out when I feel like it attitude".

rick_chasey

walkingbootweather wrote:

I did an advanced driving course sometime ago and my instructor insisted that I should only indicate when required and NOT as a matter of course. The logic was that you should always be aware of what was around you and should communicate intentions to identified people. Indicating regardless of whether there was anyone to see it was considered wrong as if fostered an "I've indicated, so I can just pull out when I feel like it attitude".

That wasn't what I was taught on the pass plus.

bails87

walkingbootweather
But if there's no-one around then there's no-one to say if you have or haven't indicated.

If I've seen someone not indicate, then I'm another road user in their vicinity, who will be basing my actions on what they do and what they're signalling they're going to do, so they should indicate.

I don't tend to be on roads where there are no other road users around, or where I can be sure there won't be other road users around a corner, so that approach, while sensible, is probably best off taking second place behind the mirror, signal, manouver approach.

Enouigh people struggle with that! Saying "always indicate" is turned into "indicate if you feel like it" for about 50% of drivers, so saying to them "oh, only indicate if you really have to" will turn into "don't bother" for the vast majority.

bails87

Rick Chasey wrote:

walkingbootweather wrote:

I did an advanced driving course sometime ago ".

That wasn't what I was taught on the pass plus.

I think WBW will be insulted that you're equating his advanced driving course to pass plus!

rick_chasey

bails87 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

walkingbootweather wrote:

I did an advanced driving course sometime ago ".

That wasn't what I was taught on the pass plus.

I think WBW will be insulted that you're equating his advanced driving course to pass plus!

Haha.

Surely, you should always indicate in case you haven't spotted someone?

I'd rather a driver did that so I had an inkling to what they're doing than not seeing me AND not indicating?

walkingbootweather

Rick Chasey wrote:

That wasn't what I was taught on the pass plus.

Interesting. So were just taught to indicate regardless? This is pretty much what I used to do (logic being I've looked but I'll indicate in case I missed something). I had one instructor who was a regualr driving instructor, and another who was a Police driver and they were both adamant that you should only indicate when there was someone to indicate too.

It is fair to say that most of the driving up my way has a lot less traffic than you guys experience in the city and I absolutely see where bails87 is coming from.

I think the point that the instructors tried to make was that it isn't a case of mirror - signal -manouver, but mirror - work out what everyone else is doing - signal - check again that everyone understands your intention - manouver

bails87

Rick Chasey wrote:

Surely, you should always indicate in case you haven't spotted someone?

I'd rather a driver did that so I had an inkling to what they're doing than not seeing me AND not indicating?

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say, I'm trying to think of a situation where it would be totally unnecessary to indicate, given other road users will be expecting you to signal your intentions.

If you're approaching a minor road on the left, for example, and are planning to take it, there might be nothing else in sight, so you don't indicate, and as you approach the junction a pedestrian comes into view, who sees you're not indicating, so starts to cross the minor road a few yards in from the junction.

Overtaking on a quiet dual carriageway/motorway, it's best to let the vehicle you're overtaking know what you're doing.

Waiting to turn at a deserted traffic light controlled crossroads, a car/bike/pedestrian might appear while you're waiting.

I'd have thought it's better to say

Don't think "I've indicated, so I can just pull out when I feel like it"

Than

Sometimes, perform a manouver without indicating so that you don't start to think "I've indicated, so I can just pull out when I feel like it"

---

Edit:

I think the point that the instructors tried to make was that it isn't a case of mirror - signal -manouver, but mirror - work out what everyone else is doing - signal - check again that everyone understands your attention - manouver

and that makes perfect sense, it's how I drive, I suppose I'd assumed other people did! :oops:

Although, how can you be sure people understand your intentions if you don't signal?

gbsahne001

walkingbootweather wrote:

I did an advanced driving course sometime ago and my instructor insisted that I should only indicate when required and NOT as a matter of course. The logic was that you should always be aware of what was around you and should communicate intentions to identified people. Indicating regardless of whether there was anyone to see it was considered wrong as if fostered an "I've indicated, so I can just pull out when I feel like it attitude".

That was exactly the reasoning the WPC gave when she cut me up at a roundabout and forced me down the sliproad, "well I indicated so you should have got out of my way" despite the fact she was in the wrong filter lane.

DF33

walkingbootweather wrote:

I did an advanced driving course sometime ago and my instructor insisted that I should only indicate when required and NOT as a matter of course. The logic was that you should always be aware of what was around you and should communicate intentions to identified people. Indicating regardless of whether there was anyone to see it was considered wrong as if fostered an "I've indicated, so I can just pull out when I feel like it attitude".

^^^^^^This

it means you analyse every time - other vehicles, cycles and pedestrians - then drive accordingly and indicate when needed, not when no one can see it. You know everything that is around you.

Auto indicating is a sign of an innatentive driver, same actions regardless of conditions and others.

Do you see police traffic cars indicating when a few hundred yards up the road in front of you and no one is around them? No, because they are taught to know and analyse what is around them and act accordingly every time.

rick_chasey

walkingbootweather wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

That wasn't what I was taught on the pass plus.

Interesting. So were just taught to indicate regardless? This is pretty much what I used to do (logic being I've looked but I'll indicate in case I missed something). I had one instructor who was a regualr driving instructor, and another who was a Police driver and they were both adamant that you should only indicate when there was someone to indicate too.

It is fair to say that most of the driving up my way has a lot less traffic than you guys experience in the city and I absolutely see where bails87 is coming from.

I think the point that the instructors tried to make was that it isn't a case of mirror - signal -manouver, but mirror - work out what everyone else is doing - signal - check again that everyone understands your attention - manouver

On your normal driving test it's a minor to fail to indicate when changing lane or direction (and by that they obviously mean off a road onto another road).

You guys make out being attentive and always indicating is mutually exclusive, which it clearly isn't.

SimonAH

Personal hates are;

Cars taking the first exit on a roundabout, but not indicating, so that you (who are coming up to join the roundabout at the next exit) must pull to a complete stop because you don't know if they are going to continue round across your bows.

A regional thing I've noticed here. In the car you may be clearly in mid reverse out of a car park slot but they drive behind you anyway.

I'm very firmly in the camp of 'indicate regardless' on the basis of under what circumstances can it possibly harm?

bails87

DF33 wrote:

Do you see police traffic cars indicating when a few yards up the road in front of you, pulling off from their parking spot on the pavement and almost hitting you? No, because they are flawed human beings like the rest of us.

Fixed that for you.

But what is the harm in indicating? If you're an attentive driver, and you look around you, and see a car a hundred yards behind/ahead, what is the actual harm in indicating there?

Obviously just doing "indicate-turn" is wrong, but that's different from indicating whenyou know what's going on, the two aren't mutually exclusive, in fact, I'd say the opposite.

bails87

Rick Chasey wrote:

[On your normal driving test it's a minor to fail to indicate when changing lane or direction (and by that they obviously mean off a road onto another road).

You guys make out being attentive and always indicating is mutually exclusive, which it clearly isn't.

Do you mean a minor fail to NOT indicate?

rick_chasey

bails87 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

[On your normal driving test it's a minor to fail to indicate when changing lane or direction (and by that they obviously mean off a road onto another road).

You guys make out being attentive and always indicating is mutually exclusive, which it clearly isn't.

Do you mean a minor fail to NOT indicate?

Yeah yeah.

:P

bails87

Rick Chasey wrote:

bails87 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

[On your normal driving test it's a minor to fail to indicate when changing lane or direction (and by that they obviously mean off a road onto another road).

You guys make out being attentive and always indicating is mutually exclusive, which it clearly isn't.

Do you mean a minor fail to NOT indicate?

Yeah yeah.

:P

It's alright, I thought you might have taken the special Audi/BMW driver's test :twisted:

Where's KB?

DF33

So, if you've analysed the situation and there isn't anyone to indicate to, Why would you? Or is it you don't trust your own judgement?

Do you walk along the footpath saying good morning to the lamp posts or wait until you see someone to say hello to?

rick_chasey

bails87 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

bails87 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

[On your normal driving test it's a minor to fail to indicate when changing lane or direction (and by that they obviously mean off a road onto another road).

You guys make out being attentive and always indicating is mutually exclusive, which it clearly isn't.

Do you mean a minor fail to NOT indicate?

Yeah yeah.

:P

It's alright, I thought you might have taken the special Audi/BMW driver's test :twisted:

Where's KB?

Hah, I only had 3 minors and it was the same thing - check over right shoulder when pullign out (as opposed to your mirror, which works fine, but anyway).

I think he's cowering behind his office chair in fear of the wind

rick_chasey

DF33 wrote:

So, if you've analysed the situation and there isn't anyone to indicate to, Why would you? Or is it you don't trust your own judgement?

Do you walk along the footpath saying good morning to the lamp posts or wait until you see someone to say hello to?

Because what harm does it do? It's moving your finger 1 an a half inches.

In the unlikely event you are wrong, you've still at least let the person know.

No excuse not to indicate, as there is no excuse not to look around before you drive off.

bails87

DF33 wrote:

So, if you've analysed the situation and there isn't anyone to indicate to, Why would you? Or is it you don't trust your own judgement?

Because I was taught to analyse the situation and indicate.
Like I said, I can't think of many situations where I can be absolutely sure that my indicating or not will not affect anyone else.

A deserted, straight motorway sliproad, maybe. But the vast majority of the time, given most driving situations most drivers will find themselves in, most of the time, it is better to indicate than to not. If someone's going to do something without looking/analysing, I'd rather they gave me a second to get out of the way than just drove into me.

And like I said, what's the harm? If I want to indicate then I will, if someone else makes the decision not to indicate because there's no-one nearby then I won't see it will I? If someone changes lanes in front of me, as will happen a dozen times on my way home tonight, then I can see them, and can loads of other cars, so they should signal.

davis

I mostly indicate. I don't have a problem with people who don't in most situations where I think it's obvious. I generally look at the front wheels and the car's road position and know where it's going, regardless of the blinky lights.

Where's it's ambiguous, a failure to indicate annoys me. So it's probably best to get in the habit.