commencal cover up ??
domcom55
Posts: 10
Another super 4 frame only lasted 4 months since last replacement .Only ridden round trail centres nothing extreme . can this be justified !
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It can't be justified and should not be tolerated.
I suggest a howling mob with torches.
String 'em up I say.I don't do smileys.
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
London Calling on Facebook
Parktools0 -
Cover up ? they've replaced dozens upon dozens of Super4 and Meta 5 frames without question. How are they covering it up ?Salsa Spearfish 29er
http://superdukeforum.forumatic.com/index.php0 -
yeehaamcgee wrote:
And yet they're somehow still in business.weeksy59 wrote:Cover up ? they've replaced dozens upon dozens of Super4 and Meta 5 frames without question.
Why do people still buy them when they have such a questionable reputation?
The simplest answer is...
They didn't when people were buying them..... Then they did... but they'd already bought them...
Then.... they made a new frame...that doesn't break... so people buy them again.
Some people (like me) take a chance because Evans were knocking out a £2000 for £1000... get 2 broken frames and end up with a frame that retails (as a whole bike) a £2800 (for £1000)...
However, i'd be amazed if their cracking hasn't put many many potential buyers off.Salsa Spearfish 29er
http://superdukeforum.forumatic.com/index.php0 -
And some of the dodgy frames are being sold on, or resold very cheaply by dealers with a warning after being replaced, which is keeping them in circulation.0
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covered up as not been published in bike press all reviews say great bikes only anyone who has one know's differently0
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I blame Supersonic.domcom55 wrote:covered up as not been published in bike press all reviews say great bikes only anyone who has one know's differently
And Wiggle.I don't do smileys.
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
London Calling on Facebook
Parktools0 -
should have been an official re call and great bikes last longer than 3 to 6 months0
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Doesn't matter if they replace them, a bike component failure can easily result in injury or death.
A failure like this shows poor testing.0 -
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Problem is they're made of smelly French cheese.
NomnomnomI don't do smileys.
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
London Calling on Facebook
Parktools0 -
And some of the dodgy frames are being sold on, or resold very cheaply by dealers with a warning after being replaced, which is keeping them in circulation.
Any prrof of that?
ive not seen one dealer re-selling cracked frames
Ive seen some on ebay from private individuals that have not had them replaced by Commencal for whatever reason, but any that went back to Madison / Commencal as a warranty replacement are not still in circulation
I also know a few people that have been happily riding the cracked frames for nearly a year with nothing getting worse
The main failure pople talk of was a hairline crack at the shock or seat-tube weld on mainly Large 2009 Meta 5 and 6's not a catastrophic failure, Im not saying thats acceptable but there was no evidence that it was a dangerous failure so why recall the majority?
It was also significantly less than 10% of worldwide sales that where affected and I understand was traced to one batch early in the production year, once the extent of the problem was known Commencal honoured all warranty claims, and several out of warranty. They are very open in their 2011 and 2012 press releases about the previous issues, they acknowledge them and state that new frames are subject to far more stringent QA control, and come from a different factory. I would say they where quite open about it and havent covered anything up, they dont do any direct marketing with magazines outside France or the US, if the magazines choose not to pass on what the company says in the press release is that their fault?
I've 2 Commencals, both have been fine, a meta 5 and a hardtail, they ARE great bikes
Lots of companies have issues and failures, I still see them trading - Lapierre, Specialised, Scott, Giant, On One, Orange etc etc Ive seen failures in them all over the years and Ive heard some bad stories on customer service and warranty refusals too
Commencal became very popular very quickly and therefore it recieved alot of coverage on the forums when people did have problems but like all bad news it gets reported more than the good. Im sure there are thousands of happy Commencal owners out there0 -
Lots of companies have had a few failures. But Commencal, and Lappierre have had a disproportionately large amount of failures.0
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FurrinersI don't do smileys.
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
London Calling on Facebook
Parktools0 -
Latest super 4 was apparently made new factory new designed swingarm and lasted 4 months, 5 months less than the 2010 model more than likely same factory same quality !!!!
Not impressed0 -
Try for a refund - say you have lost faith in the product and do not believe it is designed well enough for its purpose.0
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Cheers gonna gie it a try save havin to walk oot the woods again0
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domcom55 wrote:Cheers gonna gie it a try save havin to walk oot the woods again
Madison/Commencal swapped my Super4 frame for a Meta55. It meant i needed larger travel forks, but was worth it for me.Salsa Spearfish 29er
http://superdukeforum.forumatic.com/index.php0 -
Do you have any figures to back that up or is it just what you've gathered off Internet forums?Lots of companies have had a few failures. But Commencal, and Lappierre have had a disproportionately large amount of failures.0 -
It's based on a mixture of hearsay, experiences, meeting affected riders and shop owners.
Not a concrete fact, but that's my gut feeling on the matter.
Similar cases with other brands are much rarer, which is curious seeing as how some other brands are far more readily found out and about.0 -
Sometimes things go wrong that all the simulation testing and practical testing just don't pick up, look at the likes of Toyota and other big automotive OEM's and consider thier expertise, resourses and budgets.
I bought a 2009 Meta 55UK and had the crack on the lower shock mount but it was replaced with a 2011 frame with no hassle and I was very pleased with the service.
things go wrong, its how its dealt with that counts.0 -
Thing is... When yet another Orange Five cracks its BB shell (often just outside its short warranty) or the dropouts fall off or the shock mounts crack, everyone says "Wow, that's weird, Oranges are tough as old boots". But when a Lapierre cracks, everone says "Of course it's cracked, it's a Snappiere". Perception has an awful lot to do with it... Last time I saw someone talking about their broken Orange, they were banging on about how great it was that Orange had welded it up for them quickly under warranty! For most companies it'd be a bad thing but for Orange it was TOP CUSTOMER SERVICE
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(Orange chosen purely as a random example and not at all because I'm an Internet H8er, even though I blatantly am)
(* I have done exactly this with Cotic, yes I know, what a hypocrite)Uncompromising extremist0 -
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Northwind, thing is, I've heard of very few broken Oranges, and they're as common as smelly shi*.
Which suggests that they really are not particularly prone to breaking.
Lappierre, or Comencals however, are much thinner on the ground, but there's a lot more first and second hand accounts of failures.0 -
Maybe you're just too fat?
My mate has a super 4 - rides it in Lakes and in California a fair bit - it hasnt broken but he is very skinny......Closet jockey wheel pimp whore.0 -
yeehaamcgee wrote:Northwind, thing is, I've heard of very few broken Oranges, and they're as common as smelly shi*.
Which suggests that they really are not particularly prone to breaking.
Lappierre, or Comencals however, are much thinner on the ground, but there's a lot more first and second hand accounts of failures.
Zesty seems just as common as recent Fives to me... And I've seen and had first-hand knowledge of more broken Oranges than Lapierres. Again, just perceptions at work I think, we can only see a small snapshot ourselves so maybe my impression's wrong, who knows.
(my favourite was in Glentress car park, a friend of a friend waxing lyrical about how tough his Five was. I mentioned about the cracked BB thing as I'd seen one the week before which had broken at 10UTB, he said "Nah, that must be a fluke, never heard of that". We looked at his bike and it had a big crack right across the shell Luckily just inside the 2 year warranty )
Commencal OTOH are less common now as they all broke Uncompromising extremist0 -
I definitely think there is a perception, and how we report them. One reason is this: a lot of newbies bought commencal and lappierre as they offered much better spec when released than some of the more established brands. So when they go wrong, they complain pretty hard about them (buy cheap, buy twice and all that). Now many people who buy Oranges (and other bikes, SC, Yeti and other boutique names) have already decided they are going to be the best thing since crumpets, or have ridden other bikes before. They go wrong, they keep quiet, or wax lyrical about how could the warranty is (when most the time standard consumer rights would cover it as with any bikes).
However, and saying that.... there does seem to be a lot. I think one retailer put the Commencal failure rate for the 2009 year as 20%of all L and XL frames.
Going back to the original paragraph, we see it with after market parts too. Shimano probably sell 1000x as many hubs as Hope, especially OE. OE you don't get much choice, so when they fail we hear harsh complaints. Most Hope hubs are after market, and again will have been decided on by possibly more experienced riders who again will not say much if they go wrong. Yet I have seen more broken Hope rear hubs then any other.
What I am saying is certain brands and price points will get reported as failing more than others depending on the person buying and perception.0
