climbing the alp d'huez

reacher

ttt

sloppyschleckonds

climbing or cycling it?

MountainMonster

Use a compact or normal with big casette, nothing too special needed.

MichaelW

Switchback climbs are well graded and not as steep as many straight-up UK roads. If you want to try, the closest one to London is in Eastbourne.
Its good to have a cycling aerobic base but the only good training for climbing is climbing. As a flatlander, it takes me a few days to get my mountain legs back.
How easy you find climbing depends on your build and power/weight ratio. Some people are born climbers, many are not.

Tom Dean

It depends how fast you want to go. If in doubt about gearing: go lower.

MichaelW wrote:

Switchback climbs are well graded and not as steep as many straight-up UK roads. If you want to try, the closest one to London is in Eastbourne.

It is 8% for 14 km. I don't think there's anything similar in Eastbourne.

reacher

nr the forset of dean we live so if any one knows of a hill that i can take her to , to get some idea of the gradient and lengh of the climb ,
she has a boardman ladies with a compact , i'm not sure what cassette that has , what she is worried about is that she wont have the correct set up to do the climb ,

reacher

MountainMonster wrote:

Use a compact or normal with big casette, nothing too special needed.

for a girl ?
or are you taliking about a set up for a guy ?

Tom Dean

reacher wrote:

MountainMonster wrote:

Use a compact or normal with big casette, nothing too special needed.

for a girl ?
or are you taliking about a set up for a guy ?

Not sure why this makes a difference. Do you know what gearing you are going to use? It will depend how fit you both are and how fast you want to ride.

reacher

Tom Dean wrote:

reacher wrote:

MountainMonster wrote:

Use a compact or normal with big casette, nothing too special needed.

for a girl ?
or are you taliking about a set up for a guy ?

Not sure why this makes a difference. Do you know what gearing you are going to use? It will depend how fit you both are and how fast you want to ride.

i was only realy trying to find out what a set up for a girl would normally be ?
i was suprised to see that a normal 39x53 would be ok , as i assumed that most women would ride a compact ,

MountainMonster

Depends on the girl, just like it depends on with guys. My mother in law couldn't even imagine going up a hill even with a triple and huge casette, cause she is not a climber, but another girl I know who I ride with sometimes rides with a 53/39 and 11-26 at the back and tackles regular 20% climbs sitting down breaking a sweat.

Considering you have just said a girl, not given any idea what she is like as a rider, it is impossible to say. You don't even say what type of riding she normally does, and if she rides mountains at all ever.

unixnerd

39x53 is OK if you're super fit. I'm pretty fit and I'd not try really big hills with that, I'd look for a compact with a 25t bottom cog at the back personally. We do a 10 mile time trial from Aviemore to the top car park on Cairngorm which is about a 1500 foot ascent from the village and 12% at the steepest bit (so easier than Alp d'huez) I don't think anyone was running such high gearing.

reacher

its hard to say how good she is as we have no one to compare to , i would say above average fitness and she will ride at some where around 20 mph to 22 mph on the flat and seems to climb up the hills ok , useing the chain set on the bike , but these are only like varying from 5% to 8 % and around 3 miles long , but she sems to do them ok how ever she is in the smallest gears ,
i think the main thing is getting the correct set up on the bike its got to be done with out stopping or getting off ,
a guy i know who has ridden it told me that i would need a 28 for myself and its a murderous climb to do , thats why we started to think a bit more about the set up my daughter would need as he was not sure that she would be able to do the climb evan ,

Ands

Yes, I'm female and I did it 3 times last year. I did it on a compact 12-27. I have to say, it wasn't really that hard at all - what makes it hard is how hard you go at it. My first ascent I just went up really comfortably, 2nd time went far too hard at the bottom and struggled at the top (vowed never again), 2 days later did it a 3rd time.

It took me 1hr 26min up to the TdF finish line.

I trained in the Peak District for climbing, but to be honest you can't compare a 3km climb with a 14 km climb - if anything, 14km is better as you can settle into a rythmn . In the UK, as I got stronger I started doing all my climbing without using the 27, and then not using the 25. I also did a lot of turbo work - increasing power at lactate threshold which I think really helped with strength.

It's not murderous and your daughter can ride faster than I can on the flat if she's doing 20-22mph (is that riding solo or in a bunch?)

peejay78

the comparison of alpe d'huez with eastbourne has made me laugh. i think i see what you mean, i.e there may be a sort hairpin somewhere, but it's such a ridiculous comparison.

in terms of straightforward advice:

i think a compact and a nice range of gears across the cassette, i.e 12-28 should do. if they are strong they won't spin out, if less strong then there are lots of gears to help. it's all about the pacing on this particular climb.

it's a long climb, it's not to be taken lightly, but by going fairly conservatively, spinning, and so on, it should be more than possible, and hopefully enjoyable. as someone else mentioned, racing up and riding up are two very very different things.

term1te

I cycled up the Alpe with my son a month ago. He's 14 and has done very little cycling this year. He took it nice and steady and made it no problem. Took us 2 hours to the TdF finish, which is slow, but he got there. I saw all sorts of people on a range of bikes cycling up. It's only a killer if you are going for a fast time, which I did two days later, and it was.

reacher

Ands wrote:

Yes, I'm female and I did it 3 times last year. I did it on a compact 12-27. I have to say, it wasn't really that hard at all - what makes it hard is how hard you go at it. My first ascent I just went up really comfortably, 2nd time went far too hard at the bottom and struggled at the top (vowed never again), 2 days later did it a 3rd time.

It took me 1hr 26min up to the TdF finish line.

I trained in the Peak District for climbing, but to be honest you can't compare a 3km climb with a 14 km climb - if anything, 14km is better as you can settle into a rythmn . In the UK, as I got stronger I started doing all my climbing without using the 27, and then not using the 25. I also did a lot of turbo work - increasing power at lactate threshold which I think really helped with strength.

It's not murderous and your daughter can ride faster than I can on the flat if she's doing 20-22mph (is that riding solo or in a bunch?)

briliant , thats what i was hopeing to hear from a girl , i will show her this which will inspire her , she was starting to get a bit down about it all thinking it would be impossible to do , she is definately off the pace a bit on the hills she tends to sit in a comfort zone when climbing useing her smallest gears but now this will give her targets to work her training to ,
she rides with me so i guess its solo realy as i have her out front to protect her from cars , she has a dance back ground so aerobically she has got quite a high level of fitness i suppose ,

colin moore

My wife did the climb last summer on a borrowed old mountain bike, having only recently started cycling 5-10 miles at home, due to a mid life crises of needing to do a mini triathlon. She managed to do it in 2 hours, having never tackled anything bigger than Ivinghoe Beacon(2 miles with a little downhill bit in the middle) and unlike all us boys she did it non stop, with just a few sips of water. With the low gearing of the mountain bike she managed it no problem and did not think it was that hard and is by no means a super athelete, manages about 13 average mph at home on hilly routes.

Ands

The first ascent is the best as you have no time to beat! It's the subsequent ones that hurt. Once you get past the first two ramps it gets easier, plus you get some respite if you ride out the flat part of the hairpins. I was a nervous wreck before I did it, worried about failure, but I made my primary goal just to get to the top rather than worrying about a time. As it happened I exceeded what I had expected of myself. I did all my ascents on my own so wasn't trying to keep up with anyone else - just went at my own pace.

Are you going to get a chance to do any other climbs? I did the Coix de Fer (amongst others) - stunning climb - it took me 2hrs 30 (on my own) and the solitude of it all (deep in the valley listening to the marmottes) was magical.

reacher

great stuff , now i'm inspired , my daughter is doing it to keep me company but its turned into a challenge for her to do it with out stopping , apparantly their are other climbs around their so we hpe to tackle those as well ,
i'm currently useing a 11x23 i was planning to take a 11x25 cassette just to give me an extra gear , do you think i might need an evan smaller one than that just to be on the safe side ? i was told its better to have more smaller options than big
its just a bucket list thing realy , one of those challenges to do before i ride off to valhalla

balthazar

Ands wrote:

...the solitude of it all (deep in the valley listening to the marmottes) was magical.

My. Just reading that has brought flooding back my memories of riding long European climbs, and why I've loved them so. It's been too long! Maybe next year I'll get back out there with my bike.

avoidingmyphd

MichaelW wrote:

Switchback climbs are well graded and not as steep as many straight-up UK roads. If you want to try, the closest one to London is in Eastbourne.
Its good to have a cycling aerobic base but the only good training for climbing is climbing. As a flatlander, it takes me a few days to get my mountain legs back.
How easy you find climbing depends on your build and power/weight ratio. Some people are born climbers, many are not.

That is a seriously unhelpful answer to the original question.

It is 100% possible for reacher and her 14 year old daughter to ride up Alpe d'Huez. They don't need to do climbing training. They don't need to go to Eastbourne. And they don't need to worry about their build or power to weight ratio! they just need to be reasonably fit and a nice low gear.

On the way up the climb to watch this year's TDF stage, I chatted with a mum who was riding up with her 7 year old daughter. As far as I know, they had never been to Eastbourne. They did a few bends of Morzine - Avoriaz earlier in the week so the little girl knew what she was letting herself in for, and then they went for it on her "active 7 yr old" fitness.

anyway reacher - you'll be fine. you need some nice base fitness so do some regular rides and make sure you are fit enough to do, say, a 2 hour ride pushing quite hard before you leave for France. just regular reasonable riding will do this for you. stick a big cassette on the back - at least a 25, preferably a 28 or bigger if you can. there's no point being overgeared just to conform to some internet forum willy waving culture. enjoy it. the first few bends are the hardest bit. once you get to La Garde, the worst is over.

oldwelshman

reacher wrote:

great stuff , now i'm inspired , my daughter is doing it to keep me company but its turned into a challenge for her to do it with out stopping , apparantly their are other climbs around their so we hpe to tackle those as well ,
i'm currently useing a 11x23 i was planning to take a 11x25 cassette just to give me an extra gear , do you think i might need an evan smaller one than that just to be on the safe side ? i was told its better to have more smaller options than big
its just a bucket list thing realy , one of those challenges to do before i ride off to valhalla

Why do you need a 11? You would never need a 11 here or in france unless you can do av speed of 40mph on the flat Get a 13 x 27, there is nothing wrong with using lower gears and spinning on long climbs. I have done the alp on a 39 front and 19 rear but also using a compact with 12 x 25 casette.
Look at the spannish rider Cobo in the Vuelta this year , he won a stage using a 34 front and 32 rear but he did ok

reacher

oldwelshman wrote:

reacher wrote:

great stuff , now i'm inspired , my daughter is doing it to keep me company but its turned into a challenge for her to do it with out stopping , apparantly their are other climbs around their so we hpe to tackle those as well ,
i'm currently useing a 11x23 i was planning to take a 11x25 cassette just to give me an extra gear , do you think i might need an evan smaller one than that just to be on the safe side ? i was told its better to have more smaller options than big
its just a bucket list thing realy , one of those challenges to do before i ride off to valhalla

Why do you need a 11? You would never need a 11 here or in france unless you can do av speed of 40mph on the flat Get a 13 x 27, there is nothing wrong with using lower gears and spinning on long climbs. I have done the alp on a 39 front and 19 rear but also using a compact with 12 x 25 casette.
Look at the spannish rider Cobo in the Vuelta this year , he won a stage using a 34 front and 32 rear but he did ok

i'm not sure why i need an 11 , its what came on the bike , but i ride on it all the time ??
big wheel at the front small wheel at the back , i take it thats what you meant , just motor along flat or slight gradient its all the same , its not hard to do , so i'm slightly confused as to what you mean ,

oldwelshman

reacher wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

reacher wrote:

great stuff , now i'm inspired , my daughter is doing it to keep me company but its turned into a challenge for her to do it with out stopping , apparantly their are other climbs around their so we hpe to tackle those as well ,
i'm currently useing a 11x23 i was planning to take a 11x25 cassette just to give me an extra gear , do you think i might need an evan smaller one than that just to be on the safe side ? i was told its better to have more smaller options than big
its just a bucket list thing realy , one of those challenges to do before i ride off to valhalla

Why do you need a 11? You would never need a 11 here or in france unless you can do av speed of 40mph on the flat Get a 13 x 27, there is nothing wrong with using lower gears and spinning on long climbs. I have done the alp on a 39 front and 19 rear but also using a compact with 12 x 25 casette.
Look at the spannish rider Cobo in the Vuelta this year , he won a stage using a 34 front and 32 rear but he did ok

i'm not sure why i need an 11 , its what came on the bike , but i ride on it all the time ??
big wheel at the front small wheel at the back , i take it thats what you meant , just motor along flat or slight gradient its all the same , its not hard to do , so i'm slightly confused as to what you mean ,

You say you currently use a 11/23 casette ? Then you say that you use the big front and small back all the time and coast along? Are you serious? That is the hardest gear you have, even if you have a compact that means you would be "coasting" along on a 50 x 11 and find it easy. ? You should be in the tour de france
Try this site it has good software for gear and speed calculations.
http://www.machinehead-software.co.uk/bike/gears/gear_calculator.html

oldwelshman

By the way, the reason I asked why you need it is because if you go with a casette starting from maybe 13, you can use closer spacings on other parts of the cassette where you need it.
If you are using the 50 x 11 all the time then you are definately riding over geared and using slow cadence, unless of course your cadence is 85 and your then doing about 40mph all the time

reacher

i'm lost some what here , its not easy as in i can just roll along but its not difficult i just come off a hill and bang it in to that gear ,
the only person i have been out with was a buddy of mine who has been cycling for a long time and all the way round he kept on about this , your useing too big a gear , it got on my tits actually as he did'nt stop saying it , seems to me he was pedalling like crazy while i was useing half the energy , to do the same pace ,
all that happens when i use a smaller gear is i slow down , so i'm not sure why people keep saying pedal smaller gears ,

nickel

reacher wrote:

i'm lost some what here , its not easy as in i can just roll along but its not difficult i just come off a hill and bang it in to that gear ,
the only person i have been out with was a buddy of mine who has been cycling for a long time and all the way round he kept on about this , your useing too big a gear , it got on my tits actually as he did'nt stop saying it , seems to me he was pedalling like crazy while i was useing half the energy , to do the same pace ,
all that happens when i use a smaller gear is i slow down , so i'm not sure why people keep saying pedal smaller gears ,

I used to do this when I was new to cycling, and couldn't understand why others pedalled a smaller gear at a higher cadence. However its generally a much more efficient use of your bodies energy if you spin on the flat at say 90-100rpm than it is to grind out 60rpm, different people do tend to favour different cadences but if you're grinding along at 60-70 rpm it may be worth forcing yourself to use a smaller gear, after a while it will start to feel much more natural than it does to start with.

reacher

what i'm after is a lot of bang for my buck , a short training session , fast an furious for me is 1 1'2 hours where i would ride flat to undulating in big gears , a longer one is 2 1/2 hours most of which is spent going up an down hills then up an down again to get maximum work load , so riding a big gear for me is just that maximum work load because i dont ride flat roads realy just in between the hilly bits or comeing home from them , so i guess its mis -leading as i dont do huge milage in this gear on flat roads as we dont have them here , so these are not long mile after mile on these gears , whether or not i could do that for huge distances i realy dont know , probably not , i dont know what cadence it would be on the road but i train at 100 on a top of the range ( so i'm guessing it would be reasonably accurate) spin bike , but if these bikes are accurate then i dont pedal on the road at any where near as slow as 65 or 85 , as i find the road work a lot easier to do ,
its academic realy as i'm interested in work load not speed on a flat road

oldwelshman

You have to be joking right?
If you have a garmin I would love to see your stats if you think your rolling round on a 50 x 11 at over 85 rpm, you would ride away from every rider in the TDF.
I wish you luck going up the Alpe because if your used to riding round on a 50 x 11 and try to do similar uo there you willl have no knees left by the top.
You should ride with your mate more and try to listen to his advice
Most people once they ride regularly find their own prefered cadence and for most people i tis around 80 to 100, some testers still do lowish cadence but even the top ones like Cancellara, wiggins Martin use higher cadence now.
Your not giving yourself any better work out using such a gear, it is not manly either and will certainly putt excessive load on your knees.
If you claim to be doing 85 rpm thats just over 30mph average, if your doing 100rpm thats 35mph average, well done

MountainMonster

I use 53-11 regularly and I am far from a professional rider, just a hobby rider. On the flats too. Should I be in the TdF too?

oldwelshman

MountainMonster wrote:

I use 53-11 regularly and I am far from a professional rider, just a hobby rider. On the flats too. Should I be in the TdF too?

If you can ride it at 85 to 100rpm then yes.