does changing the wheels make a difference ??

unixnerd

Far better to get up a hill by maintaining a constant speed which would require a more or less constant supply of power to the pedals.

That's the ideal situation and a rider with a good pedal stroke stands a better chance of obtaining it. But to one degree or another the power applied will vary with a frequency double that of the cadence. Clearly this is more of a problem at lower cadences and when gravity is doing its utmost to slow you down (going up hills).

For time trials you're generally on flatter terrain and at higher speeds so the aero advantages of a slightly heavier wheelset outweigh those of a non-aero very lightweight set. You're also facing all of the wind, not in a race peleton. That's why tour riders have three different sets of wheels depending on the race (normal (smei-aero?), TT and climbing). For commuting a light set is best as you can accelerate faster from traffic lights and in variable speed traffic.

merak

lemoncurd wrote:

merak wrote:

@lemoncurd, if you read the thread you will see that saving weight in wheels is different and more significant than saving weight elsewhere.

Don't we all want the best ride we can get whether we're racing or not? And don't we all struggle up hills (if you aren't you're not trying hard enough - Rule 10)

Of course we all want the best ride.

But, don't believe everything that you read in forums (or Wikipedia come to that).

Read the "Advantages of light wheels" and "Aerodynamics vs power" sections of this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance

Still convinced that lighter wheels are worth your money? Provide a link with an article that demonstrates the advantages of light wheels - not an anecdotal "my light wheels are much faster" post in a forum.

Fine - if you want to ride a bike with agricultural wheels be my guest. Since the difference between the cheapest (say £300) and the most expensive (say £6000) road bike over a reasonable distance with some hills is probably less than 2mph all other things being equal we are not talking big differences here. But the fact remains that light wheels will be faster on hilly terrain and aero wheels will be faster on flat time trial courses. This is not based on anything that I've read in fora but decades of experience of riding all sorts of road and TT bikes in all sorts of conditions over courses from 10 miles to 380 miles, and an understanding of the physics involved. According to your argument no upgrade is worth your money and we should all be riding around on stock Carreras. Apparently you don't want the best ride you can get, because if you did you'd know that upgrading wheels is about the best bang for your buck that you can get. But there are people whose knowledge is based on real and extensive experience and there are people who base what they know about cycling on Wikipedia.

merak

lemoncurd wrote:

My point is that light wheels are not always the answer, and even if they are, the case for them is subjective rather than proven. Here's Michael Hutchinson during his 11th consecutive National 50-mile Championship victory last year.



Hutch is obviously interested in nothing else but speed, so why doesn't he use the lightest wheels that money can buy (the rear wheel alone is about 1200g)?

Because he's on a flat TT course doing a TT, where there are no accelerations and no climbs to speak of and where aero wheels have an advantage in spite ogf being heavier. Have you read nothing on this thread?

lemoncurd

merak wrote:

there are people whose knowledge is based on real and extensive experience and there are people who base what they know about cycling on Wikipedia.

Are you suggesting that I've gained all my cycling experience from Wikipedia?

merak wrote:

Since the difference between the cheapest (say £300) and the most expensive (say £6000) road bike over a reasonable distance with some hills is probably less than 2mph all other things being equal we are not talking big differences here.

I agree with this. I know someone, that knows someone else, and they had to look after the dog of someone with a bike and he said pretty much the same as this. Is the 2mph speed benefit worth £5700 if you are not racing? And what proportion of the 2mph will be gained from £300 wheels?

merak wrote:

Have you read nothing on this thread?

Go back and read each of the OP's posts, he is clearly new to cycling and wants the wheels so that he can build a bike to show off to his mates as much as anything else. Fair enough, if that's what it's all about then he should go and buy the wheels.

I want to believe that lighter wheels are better but need facts not conjecture or posts that state they 'feel' better, or that they're '2mph faster'.

thescouselander

The physics just doesn't agree with these exaggerated claims. Yes, lighter wheels will be better at acceleration. They'll even help on a climb because the whole bike is lighter but its nothing to do with slight variations in speed due to pedal stroke - as I said it is actually heavier wheels that should reduce this effect (but the difference will be minute anyway).

merak

lemoncurd wrote:

Is the 2mph speed benefit worth £5700 if you are not racing? And what proportion of the 2mph will be gained from £300 wheels?

So according to you we should all be riding around on £300 stock Carreras if we're not racing. Sheesh!

Go back and read each of the OP's posts, he is clearly new to cycling and wants the wheels so that he can build a bike to show off to his mates as much as anything else.

Nope, he wants to know whether upgradiing his wheels will be worthwhile - and the answer is that wheels can be a worthwhile upgrade, particularly where the bike has heavy old things to start with. Why be rude about his motivation? And why advise him to save the money for a "better" bike if according to you any bike over £300 is a waste of money? If you ride anything better than a stock Carrera yourself then why have you "wasted" your money? As I said at the outset, you don't have to race to want the best ride you can afford.

I want to believe that lighter wheels are better but need facts not conjecture or posts that state they 'feel' better, or that they're '2mph faster'.

What you need is to gain the experience for yourself by riding bikes with different qualities of wheel.

hulla the hulla

[grabs a bag of Butterkist and gets comfy]

Carry on guys, this is entertaining but more importantly, informative and greatly changing my opinion on the requirements and features for any new wheels I might buy in the future.

Here's another element to chuck into the mix, what about strength / stiffness / durability etc ? Surely a lighter wheel will not necessarily be as strong, therefore leading to lost energy through flex whilst in transfer from rider to road and potentially earlier failure than a more robust wheelset as well as the inconvenience of having to constantly fettle the things to keep rolling......?

plumpy

@ the OP, my point was nothing to do with all this o-level physics bickering. I think a lighter bike feels nicer and faster to ride. I'm not dissing the Carrera either, good basic bike. My point was that your most cost-effective route to a lighter and nicer bike is to save up and buy a better bike. Then start upgrading or customising that, if you still feel the need.

Putting carbon wheels on the Carrera "as part of a custom bike build" would be like putting Maglites on your Micra and telling your mates you've made a start on a kit car.

alfablue

No science, just anecdote.

I got a Planet-X SL Pro which came with Planet-X model B wheels. I was so impressed with the wheels that I bought my g/f a set (when they were on offer at £99) to go on her Trek 1.2 (a budget bike, weighed 9.5 kilos, had heavy Alex wheels and Bontrager tyres). I also changed the tyres and tubes for lighter options, and for a spend of about £140 in total. The change saved about 800g total wheel weight. G/F was amazed at the difference they made and the performance of the bike was transformed, which was very obvious on a hilly regular ride we do. Of course one could argue there is a placebo effect, but our ride stats showed a significant difference. The most obvious it in getting up to speed and ease of climbing (which had been g/f's pet hate on the bike originally).

The Planet-X wheels have been extremely reliable, and have done over 3000 miles on her bike including fully loaded camping tours (I forgot to swap the wheels for that), but they are as true and sound as day one. The hubs are much smoother than some recently purchased handbuilts I have on my touring bike that have Ultegra hubs.

On my own bike the model B's have been equally reliable, although I do get slight rear wheel flex on the steepest hills if I push very hard (but I am 80kg and run the brake pads with 1mm clearance).

I think the Model B's are unbeatable at the price, you probably need to spend beyond £300 to get lighter or better wheels from a mainstream brand, and at £125 they will be a fantastic upgrade for your TDF and would be worthy of bikes costing £1500 or more if you upgrade later. Buy them, you'll love them!

merak

The point about very good quality wheels is that they manage to be reasonably robust and sufficiently stiff while being very light. They do flex a little vertically which gives a more comfortable ride than very rigid wheels such as deep section carbon wheels. And the flex is more down to spoke count and crossing than the inherent strength of the rim in shallow section rims. So if you are 16 stone you might want wheels with a higher spoke count than if you are 10 stone. My lightest wheels have fewer spokes than a stock wheel but do not cross at all on the front wheel and drive side of the rear, and cross once on the non-drive side. That makes them relatively rigid compared to a two, three or four cross wheel, in spite of the lesser spoke count. I haven't had to true a wheel in years, but then I'm quite light.

MaxwellBygraves

Better wheels = nicer to ride = more riding /endthread

sagalout

kylemalco wrote:

Buy a good set of wheels mate i put shimano rs30 wheels on my ten year old dawes giro there was rigid with quand hubs over nite my average speed increased 2mph

Lol, only if your old wheels were rubbing on the brakes! There's no way you'll see 2mph increase just by changing the wheels - no way on earth

stevepeter83

I used to ride Ksyrium Elites and now Dura-Ace C35. My speed is very average around 28kmh.

The first thing I noticed was when I was on Elites, if there was a huge head+crosswind (I don't know how to explain it but at where I normally ride, the wind is coming from the front but not exactly straight to the back...it's tending South East or South West - if that makes sense), I could feel my bike "faltered", but on the deeper profile rim (ie. C35) I felt a lot more stable. I think C35 cut the wind better.

On climbing though, I was a bit faster on Elites as they are lighter.

I still want to try Mavic R-SYS SL ...this guy is 1295gr which is very light. Has anyone tried this before?