He hit me, and you just ran me over - helmet cam

mr_poll

Gender bias could colour people opinions on the incident, however what is also in play is the fact that one person (who happens to be male) seems genuinely shocked and apologetic the other (who happens to be female) doesn't.

In addition we all colour what we see with our own prejudices (positive or negative) this is why witness testimony is rarely used as the crux of a case, as it can be ripped apart by a good lawyer.

cornerblock

TailWindHome wrote:

Cornerblock wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Cornerblock wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Interesting sexism on this thread.

If you double click on the You Tube screen you will get the bigger picture! :roll:

I did

I get it

Just found it intriguing the difference in attitudes of posters to the two drivers in the incident and their choice of language in describing those drivers, particular having read DDD's 'women drivers' thread

Just a minor aside

Well there is no excuse for sexist language, but the man involved in the incident at least put his hands up, unlike the woman, who seemed to act as if it was all rather inconvenient to her day, and did not seem to give a flying fcuk how the rider was.

Funny how different people perceive an incident differently. I would characterise the actions of the male driver as getting his story straight for the camera. The female driver seemed to be in a bit of a shock.

I have no real problem with the sexist language, had I been the cyclist in that clip I'd be using words that would make Jim Davidson blush. I just find it intriguing that posters have honed in on the female driver, not the male driver who hit the 'lit up' cyclist head on in broad daylight. I really couldn't be annoyed going back through the thread and requoting all the comments.....you have a read back through at see what you think again.

As I say, it is a minor aside to a shocking incident with two examples of really careless driving.

I have looked at the incident a couple of times (it's all over in the first 8 seconds) and would be interested in an 'Andy Gray' style simulation of the female drivers view.

None of it based on the gender of the drivers involved though, therefore not sexism.

Not so sure about that. I believe that if the woman was driving the black Golf posters would have focused on that part of the incident

You may disagree


Also this emoticon :roll: adds nothing to any discussion.

Well you are right in one respect, people see the same incident in totally different ways, I think your view of the male driver is a bit cynical, as far as I could tell, he stopped and came forward to accept blame, before he could have known the cyclist had a camera. As for people honing in on the female driver, maybe it's just because she seemed to be so lacking in any kind of concern for the cyclist. I will give her the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe you are right and she was in shock, still an appalling bit or driving by both of them. Let's be careful out there.

kamiokande

TailWindHome wrote:

The driver of the silver Focus is coming out of that junction, she has spotted the same gap in the traffic and has only looked to her right. She is completely oblivious to any thing in front or to her left.

But the cyclist must be flying through the air to her right, then her front, then her left. I think he's wearing at least some hi-vis. Completely bizarre she didn't see him.

mr_poll

It is not that she didn't see him, it's the fact she didn't look.

My guess is:
She see's the black corsa turn off the main road and therefore assumes that if he can cross the carriageway she is joining then she can nip out in the gap he is going for.

Nancy Luger

Not so sure about that. I believe that if the woman was driving the black Golf posters would have focused on that part of the incident

A purely hypothetical, and somewhat pointless statement. People are commenting on her attitude, and the fact that she didn't see the rider. Just because she's female doesn't make it sexist. Both drivers are dangerous idiots, however comments aren't focussed on the driver of the Golf because he held his hands up and admitted he was in the wrong.

"Whoosh!" :roll:

DonDaddyD

Hope the cyclist was and is OK, glad to see he could stand up given that he lost a shoe as the driver in the Focus drove over his bike.

TWH, I think the initial anger at the Focus driver is due to the fact that at no stage is she apologetic where as the VW driver does at least says sorry. Motive and emotional state are irrespective as we aren't there to assess the people in the moment. Furthermore 'shock' doesn't preceed one specific type of reaction. The VW driver could also be in a state of shock - hence the repeat apologies - but just reacts to 'shock' in a more constructive way. One says sorry and one doesn't. Bottom line.

Also from the perspective we are given it is hard to understand why or how the Focus doesn't see the cyclist tumbling across the road (straight infront of her car) or feel her car going over a bike. You can see the Focus begin to move as the cyclist is falling straight across the junction (listen to when he says "oi" you can see the Focus moving off). That in and of itself annoys and is compunded by the fact that the two cars behind her seemed to witness the collision.

In many ways it appears that the woman's actions are worse and far more dangerous than the man's - because she actually went over him/his bike - and I can understand why others have targetted her more (sexism isn't justified though)*. Both drivers are as bad as each other, however.

My initial feeling was to punch both in the face and be done with it.

*When I made THAT thread I did it in jest (which doesn't make it OK).

tailwindhome

DonDaddyD wrote:

*When I made THAT thread I did it in jest.

I know

tailwindhome

Nancy Luger wrote:

Not so sure about that. I believe that if the woman was driving the black Golf posters would have focused on that part of the incident

A purely hypothetical, and somewhat pointless statement.

You're gonna love the internet.

suzyb

mr_poll wrote:

It is not that she didn't see him, it's the fact she didn't look.

My guess is:
She see's the black corsa turn off the main road and therefore assumes that if he can cross the carriageway she is joining then she can nip out in the gap he is going for.

Sometimes do that myself. Theoretically if a car can cross the lane to turn in, you can pull out. And if they've misjudged it then they are the one that will take the impact.

Obviously that does't take into account cyclists so I will now be checking a bit more thoroughly.

kamiokande

mr_poll wrote:

It is not that she didn't see him, it's the fact she didn't look.

My guess is:
She see's the black corsa turn off the main road and therefore assumes that if he can cross the carriageway she is joining then she can nip out in the gap he is going for.

Look where though? He passed right across the front of her car. Unless she had her eyes shut the entire time I can't understand how she didn't see him. I think a flash of hi-viz, even in your peripheral vision, would make most people stop to reassess the situation.

merkin

I think a flash of hi-viz, even in your peripheral vision, would make most people stop to reassess the situation.

Or at least she should have put 2 and 2 together afterwards and thought "Oh so that's what the flash of hi viz was that flew straight across my entire field of vision just before the car bumped over something in the road followed by screaming"


Sexism? for crying out loud some people seem to go looking for offense everywhere. :?

tailwindhome

merkin wrote:

Sexism? for crying out loud some people seem to go looking for offense everywhere. :?

For the purposes of clarity I am not offended. I'm just intrigued by the reaction of the posters on this thread to the actions of the two drivers, I reaction I think is as least in part due to the gender of the two drivers.

Watch the clip again. Stop it at 0.03. Notice how the driver of the Focus has her line of sight blocked by the white van as it turns right, while the driver of the Golf has a clear view of the hi viz wearing cyclist coming towards him in broad day light with lights flashing.

As I said before we all have different perceptions of the incident. I must admit I can't make out every word the women says on the clip (I am 37 you know) but she doesn't seem to be arguing to me, she seems genuinely shocked and baffled by what has happened.

Some posters have suggested that the driver of the Golf "puts his hands up", yeah he does up to a point. Listen to the exchange at 8.00. He's very quick to refute any suggestion that he was trying to beat the gap in the traffic.

Finally run the clip again.

At 0.03 the Focus driver has her vision obscured by the white van. At 0.04 the Golf hits the cyclist. At 0.06 she's on top of his bike. Her mistake was not to stop at that the give way markings but to pull out, the male drivers actions, while less 'dramatic' are IMHO much worse.

But yeah he said sorry.

I wrote:

You may disagree

Apparently you do.

DonDaddyD

TailWindHome wrote:

Watch the clip again. Stop it at 0.03. Notice how the driver of the Focus has her line of sight blocked by the white van as it turns right, while the driver of the Golf has a clear view of the hi viz wearing cyclist coming towards him in broad day light with lights flashing.

Actually TWH I gotta seriously diagree with you here.

If you look at the time stamp 0:01 the white van is actually already turning off.



As the Cyclist is hit by the Golf (0:03) you can clearly see the Focus in the cyclists's camera and can argue that the Focus has an unobstructed view of oncoming traffic, namely the cyclist.



There is also a bit of distance between the Focus and the end of the road. The cyclist is hit by the Golf, falls off, rolls the entire width of her lane and then is driven over by the woman who continues to emerge from her side road. The cars behind managed to see the collision and beep the Focus.

So the real question has to be, what the hell was she looking at becuase she couldn't have been looking at the road?

waddlie

While it pains me to say so - DDD, good point well made.

Drysuitdiver

was she putting her lipstick on in the mirror ??

HebdenBiker

Her observation was that bad that I do wonder if she was on the phone.

I'm no lawyer but this is surely a clear case of Driving Without Due Care and Attention.

tailwindhome

DonDaddyD wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Watch the clip again. Stop it at 0.03. Notice how the driver of the Focus has her line of sight blocked by the white van as it turns right, while the driver of the Golf has a clear view of the hi viz wearing cyclist coming towards him in broad day light with lights flashing.

Actually TWH I gotta seriously diagree with you here.

If you look at the time stamp 0:01 the white van is actually already turning off.



As the Cyclist is hit by the Golf (0:03) you can clearly see the Focus in the cyclists's camera and can argue that the Focus has an unobstructed view of oncoming traffic, namely the cyclist.



There is also a bit of distance between the Focus and the end of the road. The cyclist is hit by the Golf, falls off, rolls the entire width of her lane and then is driven over by the woman who continues to emerge from her side road. The cars behind managed to see the collision and beep the Focus.

So the real question has to be, what the hell was she looking at becuase she couldn't have been looking at the road?

When I say 0.03 I meant by the timer at the bottom left. Your screen shot is at 0.02/11.10, I meant 0.03/11.10

If you'd be kind enough to post up the screen shot at that point you'll see what I mean about the van obscuring her view and the clear view that the Golf driver has of the cyclist

I don't condone in anyway the woman's driving. She should have stopped at the give way markings instead of pulling on out. She should have seen the cyclist. So should the male driver. As per my first post BOTH are equally guilty of careless driving.


Also, when did drivers start getting so much credit for the SM in SMIDSY

HebdenBiker

TailWindHome wrote:

Also, when did drivers start getting so much credit for the SM in SMIDSY

Ha ha - fair point! Perhaps our expectations of drivers are too low. But I think the apology showed him to be a decent person who made an idiotic mistake, rather than one of the angry sociopaths who so often cause chaos on the roads.

To my shame, I once caused a traffic accident. The first thing I did was to apologise to the driver of the car I'd hit. Insurance companies advise people not to admit liability at the scene, but seriously - f*ck that. When you've endangered someone's life, the human thing to do is apologise and find out if the victim is OK. That's what the Golf driver did.

DonDaddyD

TailWindHome wrote:

When I say 0.03 I meant by the timer at the bottom left. Your screen shot is at 0.02/11.10, I meant 0.03/11.10

If you'd be kind enough to post up the screen shot at that point you'll see what I mean about the van obscuring her view and the clear view that the Golf driver has of the cyclist

Re. the images. In real terms a second is just a fluid moment. On a camera it's a series of frames. In 0.03 you can capture images where there is daylight between the Focus and van to the point where the van is obscuring the vision of the focus.




Personally I think there is enough time and opportunity for both drivers to have seen the cyclist. I maintain my belief that the reason the Focus driver is mostly the focal point of annoyance is (i) her reaction and (ii) there is really no reason for her not to have seen or heard the initial colision let alone drive over him afterwards.

Though completely in the wrong and completely the Golf's fault you can almost understand how and why he got hit by the Golf. What is hard to understand and accept is how and why the Focus drove over him as well.

But both are as bad as each other as both should have seen the cyclist.

So we agree. (I think)

petemadoc

The simple fact is, women are cr4p drivers!

In all seriousness this lady really is amazing. Why the fook does she carry on moving forward with a bike crunching under her car :shock:

First.Aspect

What's the confusion?

You can see both of the cars clearly in the video, and light travels in straight lines.

---

She was in shock, I agree. and completely baffled.

Both she and he seem to have made the classic mistake of making a decision based on a glance, and then driving from a memory of what you thought you saw.

Not entirely dissimilar from what happened to me in May. Rider a hell of a lot better off than he could have been, let me tell you.

---

All in all I think that people acted pretty well. Setting aside the SMIDSY aspect, no one drove off and a couple of other drivers stopped and gave details.

tailwindhome

DonDaddyD wrote:

Personally I think there is enough time and opportunity for both drivers to have seen the cyclist. I maintain my belief that the reason the Focus driver is mostly the focal point of annoyance is (i) her reaction and (ii) there is really no reason for her not to have seen or heard the initial colision let alone drive over him afterwards.

Though completely in the wrong and completely the Golf's fault you can almost understand how and why he got hit by the Golf. What is hard to understand and accept is how and why the Focus drove over him as well.

But both are as bad as each other as both should have seen the cyclist.

So we agree. (I think)

Ta

We can agreed on that. Been my point since the start of the thread really and I don't get the way other posters have focused (if you excuse the pun) on the woman's driving.

The screenshots above illustrate what a great view the Golf driver had of the cyclist. He *just* drives into him then gives a classic SMIDSY.


*lets it go*

davis

Is it possible that around the 03/04 second mark (DDD's initial "with screenshots" post, second picture) the cyclist is obscured by the A-pillar in the car? The A-pillar isn't that big in a Focus, but I guess it's a possibility, though certainly not an excuse.

It's still astounding that neither driver saw the cyclist, even assuming they weren't actively looking (which they clearly weren't).

stuartturbo

I think She has done a 99% do
Come round the bend looking in front of her, the view up the road is covered on and off by the parked van and the crossing van and the a pillar on the car!!
looking each way is easy to miss anything let alone a cyclist with most people seem to miss at the best of times. ( i have had it so many times now)
Then done the Assumption "HE MADE IT SO CAN I".
as for not hearing any thing bit of radio windows shut you soon become isolated.

Not sure about her reaction heavy shock

as for assumption how many when driving or riding on a roundabout
big gap
that car in front should have gone
Whoooooooe
It's still there
Breaks Hard

LOL

kamiokande wrote:

mr_poll wrote:

It is not that she didn't see him, it's the fact she didn't look.

My guess is:
She see's the black corsa turn off the main road and therefore assumes that if he can cross the carriageway she is joining then she can nip out in the gap he is going for.

Look where though? He passed right across the front of her car. Unless she had her eyes shut the entire time I can't understand how she didn't see him. I think a flash of hi-viz, even in your peripheral vision, would make most people stop to reassess the situation.

rick_chasey

How long before this ends up on local news?

neiltb

I personally commented on the womans actions as opposed the the guys as he at least realised what happened, as bad as his driving was he realised he hit the cyclist.

The woman, drove $hit, dodn't look, drove over a the cyclist and if the honking horns hadn't stopped her, she might have got home and asked the husband to look into why her car started making a funny noise on the way home.

I was going to post a cartoon of a woman doing her make up in the rear view mirror but I didn't want to send TWH into coniptions.

tailwindhome

neiltb wrote:

I didn't want to send TWH into coniptions.

Your poor spelling doesn't upset me.

Mr Sworld

First Aspect wrote:

Light travels in straight lines.

If you can prove that then there will be an shitload of Quantum Physicists interested in talking to you about wave-partical duality. Also quite a few Astrophysicists might be phoning you up from Honolulu.

May I be the first to congratulate you on your imminent Nobel Prize BTWl.

DonDaddyD

stuartturbo wrote:

I think She has done a 99% do
Come round the bend looking in front of her, the view up the road is covered on and off by the parked van and the crossing van and the a pillar on the car!!
looking each way is easy to miss anything let alone a cyclist with most people seem to miss at the best of times. ( i have had it so many times now)
Then done the Assumption "HE MADE IT SO CAN I".
as for not hearing any thing bit of radio windows shut you soon become isolated.

Not sure about her reaction heavy shock

as for assumption how many when driving or riding on a roundabout
big gap
that car in front should have gone
Whoooooooe
It's still there
Breaks Hard

Nonsense, all of it.

The van had cleared the turning before she got to the giveway line. The crash happened before she even moved off. The cyclist had completed his fall - he would have passed in front of her windscreen - before she moved off. (It is probable that she moves off because the car behind the cyclist stops due to the accident and she thinks it's letting her go).

Still, there was ample time for the Woman to have seen the cyclist approaching, to have seen the cyclist hit the car, to have seen the cyclist tumble in front of her windscreen and a Focus isn't that big not feel or see that you've driven over something that's not the curb.

Nothing excuses the woman from her actions.

The Golf driver is in fact worse because he essentially drives straight into oncoming traffic namely the bike. He could or should have seen the bike. He either tried to make the turn misjudging the cyclists speed or thought the cyclist would have slowed down because the van had already turned or simply didn't see him. All of which were wrong.

In those scenarios when on a bike I would like to think I would slow down but given the fully committed nature of the drivers, I doubt doing so would have done much.

medoramas

The thing that's missing there is the bloke reaching big f***in shotgun from his back and just shoots that idiot bitchs' head off... New idea for super hit FPP Shooter game.