Saw girl being attacked in the street this AM...

msmancunia

When I was 14, a friend and I were jumped on outside the local pool in the town centre in broad daylight by eight girls from the local council estate, because apparently one of us had "looked at them funny". I was a very un-street smart middle class girl who was just in the wrong place at the time and the one thing I will never forget is the amount of adults who walked past and didn't intervene. Once they left us in a heap we walked to the police station who rang our parents, took us home, called our school, called the assailant's school, identified the girls and took it from there.

So I'll always get involved. And if a 5ft5 slim built girl can, then anyone can, whether it's just standing to one side and calling the police or wading in and physically stopping it. And DDD, I think you may have got the wrong end of the stick re tim wand's post - the girl may not be your wife, daughter, sister, but she's someone's wife, daughter, sister.
If the same thing happened to your loved one when you weren't there, and you found out that someone had just walked away, then how would that make you feel?

DonDaddyD

msmancunia wrote:

And DDD, I think you may have got the wrong end of the stick re tim wand's post - the girl may not be your wife, daughter, sister, but she's someone's wife, daughter, sister.
If the same thing happened to your loved one when you weren't there, and you found out that someone had just walked away, then how would that make you feel?

The issue is choice. If a person chooses to step in and help and it is appropriate/needed then I would obviously thank them. If they choose not to get involved and/or walk away, well it's not something I believe should be automatically expected.

clarkey cat

I saw three guys surrounding a woman in a threatening way and I thought - shall I step in and help? I'm a pretty big guy and I can handle myself if you know what I mean - and I thought, nah - three's enough and she's not that big. They'll be okay.

bails87

clarkey cat wrote:

I saw three guys surrounding a woman in a threatening way and I thought - shall I step in and help? I'm a pretty big guy and I can handle myself if you know what I mean - and I thought, nah - three's enough and she's not that big. They'll be okay.

tim_wand

What I meant wasnt if it was one of my loved ones I d be in there straight away, I m sure thats a given for all of us.

I was trying to put it into the context that it was someones Wife, Daughter , Sister or Mother. Probably even the guy's who was trying to knock her about. But its fairly obvious if shes trying to get on a bus to get away from the bloke that shes not happy with the situation

I would hope there are people out there who would look out for "For my loved one's" when I cant or as much as I hate to quote the over privelaged Tory git then DC is right "some sections of society are sick"

You know what was happening was morally wrong, potentially harmful to a vunerable person and only fear for you own safety made you walk away.

If you comfortable with that then so be it, its your decision, I personally could not be.

king_jeffers

clarkey cat wrote:

I saw three guys surrounding a woman in a threatening way and I thought - shall I step in and help? I'm a pretty big guy and I can handle myself if you know what I mean - and I thought, nah - three's enough and she's not that big. They'll be okay.

rick_chasey

msmancunia wrote:

If the same thing happened to your loved one when you weren't there, and you found out that someone had just walked away, then how would that make you feel?

This is a little judgemental.

You never know the context.

I know of someone who was stabbed getting involved in a domestic argument that wasn't his. Friend of a friend.

As a result of that, for fear of that, I'd never step in. If I was witness to something that required the police, I would (and have) called them.

If the context is such that I might be able to help there and then I would, but don't judge people who are not remotely involved but happen to be in the vicinity.

clarkey cat

I'd never bother getting involved. Alot of these 'domestics' are just a load of histrionics anyway so you step in and then smashing your head in becomes the new drama for our plucky couple. Leave 'em to it.

rjsterry

A bit concerned about the general perception that if it's a 'domestic' then somehow it's less of an issue. If it's not OK to do that to a stranger, then it's not OK to do it to your wife/girlfriend/whatever. Granted the likely outcome of getting involved is different if the two were a couple, but that doesn't make the assault any less serious. Like bails87, I'm in no position to get physically involved, but a verbal intervention or calling the police is something that anyone could do.

clarkey cat

A bit concerned about the general perception that if it's a 'domestic' then somehow it's less of an issue. If it's not OK to do that to a stranger, then it's not OK to do it to your wife/girlfriend/whatever. Granted the likely outcome of getting involved is different if the two were a couple, but that doesn't make the assault any less serious. Like bails87, I'm in no position to get physically involved, but a verbal intervention or calling the police is something that anyone could do.

You're less likely to have make-up sex with a stranger though.

msmancunia

Fair enough - if people want to walk away then that's up to them. But my boss just this minute read me out a story on our website about a guy in Liverpool who I believe lost his nose, ear and lip after being battered outside a nightclub. I don't know the circumstances of the assault - he may have been pestering a girl, he may be an innocent bystander, who knows?
All I know is that if I got up on Sunday morning and saw something like that in my newspaper, I woudn't want it on my concience that I'd walked away and not tried to help. I guess it all comes down to what you can actually live with, and I guess that must be different for everybody.

bails87

msmancunia
I'd just read that too, horrible story.

We don't know what happened, he could have been walking past and got randomly attacked, he might have been intervening to help someone or he could have attacked a woman inside and someone decided to stand up to him.

You might feel bad thinking you could have prevented it, but you'd feel bad if you were the victim and you'd stepped in to prevent an 'attack' which turned out to be an arguing couple who both decided to turn on you instead.

Still, sounds like a horrific attack.

dcurzon

did they know each other? i have no idea.
Pinned against the wall with an elbow, isnt quite the same as restraining someone, imo.
Sure, i didnt actively DO anything. I was trying to assess the situation, and didnt want to get involved flying solo... i tried to encourage some assistance but was immediately dismissed. I perhaps could have tried encouraging some assistance in a different turn of phrase, but to be honest, i was quite surprised that this would happen in such a place at such a time (Dalston high street, 7:25am). But as i was processing the scenario in my mind, a burly geezer on foot jumped in. I guess i was also surprised that anyone would turn a blind eye to it at all.

notsoblue

Its a difficult situation. When faced with similar in the past I've asked if they need help. Thats usually enough to diffuse the situation, or they refuse the help and just continue at eachother... Just launching yourself into the conflict more than likely just makes things worse.

DonDaddyD

Self preservation is an undeniable human instinct.

It is there for a reason and of those that succumb should not be publicly flogged for wanting to remain safe from a situation they did not cause or were not involved in the first place!

How many times have I heard the police say the best thing to do is not get involved and call the police? Of course if the guy is kicking the shit out of her then sure get a group and step in. If it's a group of people then stepping in becomes harder no matte how many of you there are. And for all the bluster of "not one adult did anything" consider this:

The recent riots, did any of us attempt to defend the shops being burned and looted? I'm sure there were more us than there were them. Why didn't we? Our initial numbers didn't look good, none of us could say how far were the people we would be trying to stop were willing to go and the risks out weighed the gain.

With that in mind you can begin to understand why the cyclist in the OPs thread rode off and why the OP himself didn't go charging down to 'sort it'. Not least of which, had it been a domestic it would have been none of his business unless things looked violent and at which point I defer to my original point about about what the police recommend and/or get a group and step in.

I get somewhat irked by the bombast of the self righteous who speak now but when faced with a situation go through the same instincts, emotions and thoughts we all do. Sure their conclusions may or may not be different but a lot of you have forgotten that decisions of this nature are wholly subjective and there is no right answer beyond self preservation vs assumed risks.

Bottom line. I am not going to blindly put myself in danger at the expense of others. I'm no hero and I have loved ones that I am responsible for (who, incidentally I will blindly put myself in danger for). If I can help I will help. But I won't help if it is at the expense of myself and my safety.

If you want to call me a coward call me a coward. Believe me that those words will deafen by the gleaming eyes of my pregnant girlfriend and the kicks of my unborn child.

clarkey cat

If you want to call me a coward call me a coward. Believe me that those words will deafen by the gleaming eyes of my pregnant girlfriend and the kicks of my unborn child.

Jesus, man. I'm actually crying.

rjsterry

notsoblue wrote:

Its a difficult situation. When faced with similar in the past I've asked if they need help. Thats usually enough to diffuse the situation, or they refuse the help and just continue at eachother... Just launching yourself into the conflict more than likely just makes things worse.

Sometimes, the most obvious things get missed. I remember reading about a chap who for an experiment laid on the pavement of a busy Camden street, with eyes closed. He could have been sleeping or unconscious, or worse. IIRC, almost no-one stopped to even ask if he was OK.

bails87

rjsterry wrote:

I remember reading about a chap who for an experiment laid on the pavement of a busy Camden street, with eyes closed. He could have been sleeping or unconscious, or worse. IIRC, almost no-one stopped to even ask if he was OK.

a good(or bad, depending on your point of view) example:

Supermarket staff ignored a shopper having a stroke for more than two hours
The mum-of-nine (!!!?? BJUK's work?) wondered around in a daze before slumping on a chair in the cafe, where she stayed for the next two and a half hours.

Yet no one asked seriously ill Pauline or her worried children, Mia and Rhiannon, what was wrong – and the family was asked to leave at closing time



Read More http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top- ... z1Vx2CZQjM

tim_wand

Dalston High St. Wasnt that area being teared up by looters and rioters not so long ago?

There was enough people on here then critiscing the Police for not getting involved. Its a simple moral judgement call. Stand by and see your fellow human being in distress or do something about it.

Probably emblematic of where societys going wrong that so many still think the question needs to be asked and the answer they find is self preservation.

You did not need to physically intervene. A strong verbal "Whats going on im calling the police" is enought to distract the perpetrator and give the victim chance to get away or affirm to you they want help. Your on a bike you could have shouted from futher enough away to have created time for that assesment to be made.

Why have you posted on here? By doing so you must doubt your own actions

W1

clarkey cat wrote:

If you want to call me a coward call me a coward. Believe me that those words will deafen by the gleaming eyes of my pregnant girlfriend and the kicks of my unborn child.

Jesus, man. I'm actually crying.

And I've just had lunch, but now regret it.

UndercoverElephant

DonDaddyD wrote:

I'm no hero and I have loved ones that I am responsible for (who, incidentally I will blindly put myself in danger for). If I can help I will help. But I won't help if it is at the expense of myself and my safety.

DonDaddyD wrote:

Level 31 Void archetype Superhero in Millennium City.

:?:

Edit: Other than that, a big +1 from me. I have stepped in to help people out in the past, when required, and will always check if people are OK, but there are some great people at home who rely on me.

tim_wand

Eveyone hopefully has great people at home who rely on them. Thats why I would hope that we have a collective responsibility in society to make sure we look out for the vunerable when those people cant be there for them when they are not at home safe.

I cant recall the Gentleman's name, But the most humbling thing I have seen this year was the Asian Father in Birmingham calling for calm and sense after losing three sons.

Some of you will use this example as one which shows the consequences of intervention , I would argue that the collaborative condemnation and intervention by communities and individuals is what ultimately stopped that situation and brought the country to its senses.

A Brave man in the true sense.

dcurzon

tim wand wrote:

Why have you posted on here? By doing so you must doubt your own actions

maybe, or maybe as i posted above, i'm surprised that people are so keen to turn a blind eye.

Why is half the crap that is posted in these forums done so?

portland_bill

@ dhope

Definitely agree with Tim Wand on this one. I don't give a toss if I get a load of abuse back or even a slap for it. At least I tried instead of just putting my head down and walk past and risk letting someone get hurt.

portland_bill

Sorry, didn't realise there was another 2 pages after that...

I don't expect anybody to step in physically, but if you feel safe doing so and that it would genuinely help matters, then why not?

If not, then as pointed out several times, a verbal address should be more than enough. The ones I'm casting in a negative light are the ones who literally do nothing but turn their heads and try to forget it happens. That is just as wrong as the people carrying out the act in my eyes. Just let them do it eh?

I agree if I was having an argument with my wife and somebody got involved it would just annoy me even more, but firstly, I wouldn't have an argument with my wife in the middle of the street through pure decency if anything, and I certainly don't drag her around or pin her to the wall when we are arguing.

If a situation as described is a domestic, then is domestic violence and completely intolerable. If it is not a domestic, then it is just violence. Also completely intolerable.

deptfordmarmoset

tim wand wrote:

Eveyone hopefully has great people at home who rely on them. Thats why I would hope that we have a collective responsibility in society to make sure we look out for the vunerable when those people cant be there for them when they are not at home safe.

I cant recall the Gentleman's name, But the most humbling thing I have seen this year was the Asian Father in Birmingham calling for calm and sense after losing three sons.

Some of you will use this example as one which shows the consequences of intervention , I would argue that the collaborative condemnation and intervention by communities and individuals is what ultimately stopped that situation and brought the country to its senses.

A Brave man in the true sense.

Tariq Jahan, father of Haroon. Yes, him and Pauline Pearce ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/2 ... NTCMP=SRCH ) were the only ones who had anything meaningful to say. For me, they're the only heroes to have emerged from a disaster.

notsoblue

rjsterry wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

Its a difficult situation. When faced with similar in the past I've asked if they need help. Thats usually enough to diffuse the situation, or they refuse the help and just continue at eachother... Just launching yourself into the conflict more than likely just makes things worse.

Sometimes, the most obvious things get missed. I remember reading about a chap who for an experiment laid on the pavement of a busy Camden street, with eyes closed. He could have been sleeping or unconscious, or worse. IIRC, almost no-one stopped to even ask if he was OK.

This is what living/working in London does to you. It makes you cynical about behaviour thats out of the ordinary and you're pretty much trained to ignore it. On the other hand though, I've witnessed genuine incidents where people have gotten injured or have been taken ill and very quickly there will be a crowd of people there to lend a hand.